Is Indy a "Family hero" and a good role model for kids?

Is Indiana Jones a good role model for young kids?

  • Yes, he's a perfect role model.

    Votes: 18 46.2%
  • Not really but I don't mindmy kids watching the movies.

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • NO WAY! He took advantage of teenage Marion amongst other things.

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • I have NO idea...

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Total voters
    39

Goodeknight

New member
HJJNR said:
I tell my son he shot it near him and he fainted lol.
That honestly did make me lol. :D

HJJNR said:
Hey if he wasn't a good hero for young kids why would they have this?
3838287.jpg
I agree. You won't see an "I Can Read - Taxi Driver"
 

Goodeknight

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
The same reason they made candy cigarettes and bubblegum cigars.:rolleyes:

popeye-cigarettes.JPG


CigarsLightBox.jpg


OOOOooooo, I loved those candy cigarettes....

And I don't smoke, so I guess they didn't get me hooked.
 
goodeknight said:
OOOOooooo, I loved those candy cigarettes....

And I don't smoke, so I guess they didn't get me hooked.

...and thus closes the book on The Scientific Method!
Really the point is to refute a silly idea that filtered content in a childrens book makes Indy a Family Hero.
 
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Darth Vile

New member
JuniorJones said:
That's right, inapporpriate sexual relationships with minors was rampant amongst cinematic serial hero adventures in the 1930 and 1940s.

Raiders is a modern take on the serials and would have been subject to morality of the time it was made.


If they wanted to add a bit accuracy prehaps they could have shown the true atrocities of the Nazi's rather than a Nazi saluting monkey.

The Marion/Indy relationship - It's uncomfortable and that's how Lucas intended it.

I'm left wondering whether or not you've actually even seen the movie... Perhaps Raiders of the Lost Ark is actually a euphemism for Indy's predilection for underage girls? (y)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Uncle George will sell Indy any way he can.

Therefore, there are sanitizied childrens' versions of the novels to sell to children, and the genuine Indy novels for adults who don't mind a little blood and guts with their dose of anti-hero.

Indy being complex in character, as opposed to being defined in black or white terms, means that he is wonderfully problematical.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
FWIW, the Ultimate Guide also states Shorty wears a NY Yankees hat.

The Crystal Skull novel puts a new spin on how they met...(the daughter of a teacher very well may have "skipped" a grade or two but a 15 year old in a graduate class?).

Who knows how Indy V will revise history and sanitize Indiana Jones to push him further into the light.

It's 'Greedo shot first' all over again. George just won't leave things be. Let rogues be rogues, not knights in shining armour.
 

Crack that whip

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
FWIW, the Ultimate Guide also states Shorty wears a NY Yankees hat.

Hence my use of "FWIW," since I do indeed acknowledge the many shortcomings of the allegedly Ultimate Guide in matters pertaining to dating and chronology. That said, what better sources are there for Marion's birthdate? As I noted, Marion being 17 at the time of the affair does easily still fit...

Rocket Surgeon said:
The Crystal Skull novel puts a new spin on how they met...(the daughter of a teacher very well may have "skipped" a grade or two but a 15 year old in a graduate class?).

Well, there you go. :p

Rocket Surgeon said:
Who knows how Indy V will revise history and sanitize Indiana Jones to push him further into the light.

He's always going to be rough, with some dark areas, but he was never intended to be an outright villain (not even in those early conceptual stages for Raiders), which is how he's being interpreted here. Some say it's his "darkness" that makes him interesting; I think this is not entirely off the mark, but not quite there either - I think it's his flaws which make him interesting, but that's not the same thing. At the end of the day, he's still a heroic figure, just not a perfect one. I certainly don't think he's a monster, or even a purely self-interested mercenary with no ideals at all, nor was he ever intended to be, and I'm frankly somewhat baffled by folks who apparently not only see him as one, but prefer him as one...
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I doubt Indy V (if it happens) will ever catch the Yin/Yang Dark/Light nature of Indy like we were presented in the first film:

125.jpg
 

chr0n0naut

New member
The only thing I can think of that might seriously indicate that Indy is a bad role model, is when he holds Willie at knife point (well ... fork point) in Club Obi Wan to get the antidote back. (n)

Everything else he does is, well, what any action hero does. :whip:

Given that the Indy movies are not gruesome, the real question is "Do action hero stars make good role models?". :confused:

I can tell you from experience that watching Indy didn't have a negative affect on me a kid. The movies were more fun than they were violent. :cool:
 

AlivePoet

New member
Pale Horse said:
I doubt Indy V (if it happens) will ever catch the Yin/Yang Dark/Light nature of Indy like we were presented in the first film:

125.jpg

This shot, along with the bar shot "Try the local sewer," are among my top five in the trilogy.

Quite amazing how well-established Indy's character is from this film's cinematography alone.
 

HJJNR

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
...and thus closes the book on The Scientific Method!
Really the point is to refute a silly idea that filtered content in a childrens book makes Indy a Family Hero.

I wasn't posting that as pure evidence but I'm pretty sure if he was NOT a possible good role model for kids, they wouldnt have 'I can read' books for kids... simply because any parent that would buy it for their child knows they have already seen the movie and approve or the child will ask to watch it once they have read it... know what I mean? Filtered or not- we don't have 'I can read: Die Hard! Meet John Mcclain. lol
:hat:
 

HJJNR

New member
chr0n0naut said:
The only thing I can think of that might seriously indicate that Indy is a bad role model, is when he holds Willie at knife point (well ... fork point) in Club Obi Wan to get the antidote back. (n)

Everything else he does is, well, what any action hero does. :whip:

Given that the Indy movies are not gruesome, the real question is "Do action hero stars make good role models?". :confused:

I can tell you from experience that watching Indy didn't have a negative affect on me a kid. The movies were more fun than they were violent. :cool:

Yeah I see what you mean about the "fork point" situation but that again (IMO) just shows his vulnerability and survival instinct, we all know that he would not have plunged that fork into her ribs but he had little other option at that time... And your right about the movies being more fun than violent and like yourself, they had no negative affect on me...quite the opposite.:whip:
 

AlivePoet

New member
As Montana Smith has already noted, Indy is a very complex character and so cannot be limited to the black and white perfect or imperfect role model. For example, he is very resourceful and adventurous, which I think are excellent qualities that anyone should have. Then there is the risk-taking quality which obviously will jive better with some folks than with others, same as going on archaeological digs...some would regard Indy's methods and end goal as exploitative. There is his charm which cannot really be imitated... and then there are his qualities that skate on the unethical side, such as having had a fling with Marion when she was a minor (even if she did consent, it's problematic to say the least), and of course the grand action-oriented events that involve killing bad guys. It works because it's an action flick where the villains are two-dimensional, but in real life the consequences would be much more severe, whether to one's sanity or survival.

So I would say that since this movie was made first and foremost as a tribute to action serial entertainment for entertainment's sake, it's unwise to model oneself after Indy's complete image...better to consider the pros and cons of his many qualities that may differ depending on one's aptitude in a variety of fields.
 

monkey

Guest
HJJNR said:
The shooting is pretty hard to justify but as for the swordsman, I tell my son he shot it near him and he fainted.

HJJNR, Sorry that you had to lie to your son. But just as when you prevented your son from seeing certain scenes from Indiana Jones movies, this once again proves the point that Jones is NOT a children's character.

The fact is that Indiana Jones shot the swordsman.....with a .455 Webley handgun......(pretty big bullet!). Yes he did. And he KILLED him. Dead.

Indiana Jones has killed a LOT of people, and hopefully he will kill a LOT more.

He will have intimate relations with many different women, .....outside of marriage.

He will rob graves.

Once again.........hopefully.

UNLESS, he gets Mr. Rogers' (currently vacant) gig.

Picture Indiana Jones telling you that "you're special......in your own special way..." as he removes his desert boots, hangs up his Webley, and puts on some comfortable slippers.

Saturday morning line-up: 9:00=Telletubbies, 9:30=Barney, 10:00=Indiana Jones' Neighborhood.

Pass the remote.
 

Goodeknight

New member
HJJNR said:
we all know that he would not have plunged that fork into her ribs but he had little other option at that time.
That's clearly evident because Lao Che says, "You keep the girl. I'll get another one," or something like that. Lao calls Indy's bluff, and his son (a real bad guy) gets skewered for it. Willie gets whisked away on the adventure.
 

Crack that whip

New member
monkey said:
The fact is that Indiana Jones shot the swordsman.....with a .455 Webley handgun......(pretty big bullet!). Yes he did. And he KILLED him. Dead.

Indiana Jones has killed a LOT of people, and hopefully he will kill a LOT more.

He killed the swordsman because the swordsman was threatening Indy's own life (and while Indy was trying to save Marion's life, at that). He didn't kill the swordsman just because the swordsman insulted him, or for the sheer pleasure of killing. He killed because to preserve his own life, and that of Marion. That's a huge difference from murdering people just for fun the way you seem to think he does.

monkey said:
He will have intimate relations with many different women, .....outside of marriage.

Why? He's had intimate relations with many different women in the past, and it's true he once pursued relationships with three different women at the same time, but even then he was clearly shown to want to get them down to one and was having trouble deciding (and hadn't actually slept with them all). Indy has a reputation as a ladies man, but that comes mainly from simply having had a lot of flings with people with whom he either never had committed relationships, or with whom his relationships didn't last. There's nothing to indicate he'd cheat on Marion after they marry.
 
Family Entertainment

I guess we have to go through it again. Is Indiana Jones a good role model? Are these lessons you want to teach your kids? Is this a tool in the shed? What are the themes in the film?

There's the issue of Indiana Jones meaning the films or simply the character. Unless you've done an impression of Michael Kahn, or you're a content Nazi yourself, the films and any LFL source of info is pertinent. For now I'll keep to the film.

Let's start with Raiders.

Daddy, what's a Nazi?

"Daddy? What are they doing?" "Well sweetheart, that girl is trying to win money by taking turns drinking alcohol with that fat man to learn who is the first to lose control of their bodily functions. Uh oh, number 14 is making her go night night! No, wait! She can do it!"

Daddy Daddy! That man's forehead just spit blood! Shoot them both? Why is blood coming out of that man's mouth? Look at the man doing tricks with that sword! Just like the circus Daddy! Look at Indy...oh, are they playing a game too daddy?

Daddy, why did Indy shoot the man driving the truck in the head? Why didn't he shoot the tires? He only whipped that bad man in the beginning who was trying to shoot him!

Oh no! That nice girl blew up, is he trying to outdrink the monkey for the monkey's money?

What are United States Marines Daddy?
What's a bad date?
Daddy why is that man watching the nice girl take her clothes off?
Daddy, is she trying to win, what did you call that man? A Frog? Is she trying to win that Frog's money Daddy? Why is he a frog Daddy?
What's a chapperone?
Daddy, what's a Bastard?
Daddy he bit that man! Why is he hiding his face? Should I hide mine too?

Why doesn't she want to please the Frog daddy? What is compensation?

Wow daddy the Ark is pretty! ...and Shiny! What's inside of it? It sounds like our cat when she purrs. Daddy why are they screaming? Did the ark grab them with it's claws too?

Daddy does she want to win Indy's money too? Money must be important! Can you make a lot of money drinking? Is that how you and Mommy make money?

Is there another? Nickelodeon should play this! I want to be just like Indy and/or Marion! What's the name of the next one? Indiana Jones goes to Temple? Yea! Just like church on Sunday! Can we watch it, can we? Pleeeease!

:rolleyes:
 

HJJNR

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I guess we have to go through it again. Is Indiana Jones a good role model? Are these lessons you want to teach your kids? Is this a tool in the shed? What are the themes in the film?

There's the issue of Indiana Jones meaning the films or simply the character. Unless you've done an impression of Michael Kahn, or you're a content Nazi yourself, the films and any LFL source of info is pertinent. For now I'll keep to the film.

Let's start with Raiders.

Daddy, what's a Nazi?

"Daddy? What are they doing?" "Well sweetheart, that girl is trying to win money by taking turns drinking alcohol with that fat man to learn who is the first to lose control of their bodily functions. Uh oh, number 14 is making her go night night! No, wait! She can do it!"

Daddy Daddy! That man's forehead just spit blood! Shoot them both? Why is blood coming out of that man's mouth? Look at the man doing tricks with that sword! Just like the circus Daddy! Look at Indy...oh, are they playing a game too daddy?

Daddy, why did Indy shoot the man driving the truck in the head? Why didn't he shoot the tires? He only whipped that bad man in the beginning who was trying to shoot him!

Oh no! That nice girl blew up, is he trying to outdrink the monkey for the monkey's money?

What are United States Marines Daddy?
What's a bad date?
Daddy why is that man watching the nice girl take her clothes off?
Daddy, is she trying to win, what did you call that man? A Frog? Is she trying to win that Frog's money Daddy? Why is he a frog Daddy?
What's a chapperone?
Daddy, what's a Bastard?
Daddy he bit that man! Why is he hiding his face? Should I hide mine too?

Why doesn't she want to please the Frog daddy? What is compensation?

Wow daddy the Ark is pretty! ...and Shiny! What's inside of it? It sounds like our cat when she purrs. Daddy why are they screaming? Did the ark grab them with it's claws too?

Daddy does she want to win Indy's money too? Money must be important! Can you make a lot of money drinking? Is that how you and Mommy make money?

Is there another? Nickelodeon should play this! I want to be just like Indy and/or Marion! What's the name of the next one? Indiana Jones goes to Temple? Yea! Just like church on Sunday! Can we watch it, can we? Pleeeease!

:rolleyes:


First of all I would like to say; That was one of the most awesome replies and arguments to a specific subject I've ever read... (pat on back).
I can fully appreciate all the points you made here and from an adult thinking as a child, it makes sense. However, not once has my son (or daughters) picked up on any of the things in the way you mentioned. He has asked about Nazis and I didnt lie to him, I watered it down a bit but hey, too much info and all that. I think, no I believe that a young boy watching Indy gives them a sense of adventure and yes some of his morals are to be judged but kids don't pick up on such things.
OK some aspects of the movies can be a bit much for kids, hence my strategically placed 'Cough' over any swear words hee hee. (Doom bridge; "Oh *COUGH*")
We then have merchandising thats available for kids..aimed at kids. Lego Indy, dress up costumes, lunch boxes, annuals and so on (cost me a fortune). We can argue thats just about money and what not but I've never seen a stand in toys r us for a Saw3 doll or a hannibal Lecter lunch box...

Like I said, all your points are valid and understandable but I don't think kids pick up on such things... kids are pretty face value when it comes to films. Watching Harry Potter I don't get questions like why does Voldermort (oops I mean 'you-know-who') hate Harry Potter and why is Snape so mean to him?

Whenever I take the kids on walks or trips, my son will run to grab his "Indy kit" as he calls it (Gas mask bag, foam bullwhip, trowel for digging, notepad etc). My nephew loves Superman and his Mum is terrified that when he has the costume on he'll try to "fly" out of an open window or top of climbing frame and heroes don't come much more squeaky clean than Superman.

I just don't see any poor examples that can come from being an Indy fan as a child. How old were you when you first saw Indy?
 

kongisking

Active member
HJJNR said:
First of all I would like to say; That was one of the most awesome replies and arguments to a specific subject I've ever read... (pat on back).
I can fully appreciate all the points you made here and from an adult thinking as a child, it makes sense. However, not once has my son (or daughters) picked up on any of the things in the way you mentioned. He has asked about Nazis and I didnt lie to him, I watered it down a bit but hey, too much info and all that. I think, no I believe that a young boy watching Indy gives them a sense of adventure and yes some of his morals are to be judged but kids don't pick up on such things.
OK some aspects of the movies can be a bit much for kids, hence my strategically placed 'Cough' over any swear words hee hee. (Doom bridge; "Oh *COUGH*")
We then have merchandising thats available for kids..aimed at kids. Lego Indy, dress up costumes, lunch boxes, annuals and so on (cost me a fortune). We can argue thats just about money and what not but I've never seen a stand in toys r us for a Saw3 doll or a hannibal Lecter lunch box...

Like I said, all your points are valid and understandable but I don't think kids pick up on such things... kids are pretty face value when it comes to films. Watching Harry Potter I don't get questions like why does Voldermort (oops I mean 'you-know-who') hate Harry Potter and why is Snape so mean to him?

Whenever I take the kids on walks or trips, my son will run to grab his "Indy kit" as he calls it (Gas mask bag, foam bullwhip, trowel for digging, notepad etc). My nephew loves Superman and his Mum is terrified that when he has the costume on he'll try to "fly" out of an open window or top of climbing frame and heroes don't come much more squeaky clean than Superman.

I just don't see any poor examples that can come from being an Indy fan as a child. How old were you when you first saw Indy?

Perfectly said.
 
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