Pre-History and God

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
...one should keep from admitting the "absolute truth" unless there really is a way to show it.

There world would be a lot better place without less conflicts if people said "I can, of course, be wrong" if out of nothing more than sheer courtesy.
While I'll never cite faith as fact, I'm as uncompromising as any born-again Christian can be. To us, it would be like saying, "I'm a man (or woman, depending on the subject), but that's just my interpretation." Our Master said of Himself, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life...no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) For us to deny that is to deny Him, and that no true Christian would do.

To make a point, though...spiritual experience isn't translatable into concrete evidence. That is entirely in the purview of the apologeticist.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Doc Savage said:
To us, it would be like saying, "I'm a man (or woman, depending on the subject), but that's just my interpretation." Our Master said of Himself, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life...no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) For us to deny that is to deny Him, and that no true Christian would do.
While I wouldn't expect it to hear such a thing everyplace, and won't even demand so (yes, it would be an odd thing to hear from a pastor during a sermon), there should be moments when you should put your fellow man above all the deities without angering them.

This is The Raven, preacher, not your pulpit. And here the focus is on people, not God. Hope you understand it.

Lord with you, nevertheless.
 

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
...there should be moments when you should put your fellow man above all the deities...
" By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." 1John 5:2
Finn said:
This is The Raven, preacher, not your pulpit.
My life is my pulpit, Finn. My faith is not compartmentalized to Sunday morning. It permeates everything I do, say, and think.
Finn said:
And here the focus is on people, not God. Hope you understand it.
I didn't start this conversation...I just joined it. Nor was I the one who brought God in on it. But if others can express their doubts, I see no reason why I can't express my faith. I've never beat anyone here over the head with my beliefs. I have no desire to evangelize the Raven with sermons. But to communicate requires honesty, and my faith is me being as real as I know how. And that I hope you understand.
Finn said:
Lord with you, nevertheless.
Thank you...and you as well.
 

fortuneandglory

New member
Doc wasn't preaching, he was merely expressing his views based on Christianity! If citing the Bible while stating your views is comandeering the forums as a pulpit, then CH citing atheist and scientific sources while stating his views is the same thing.

This entire thread is about pre history, and it's relation to God. Therefore, this post should have conversation on God, and one would expect citations from the Bible.

No one is trying to convert Raveners to Christianity, but yet we are beat back with a stick bearing the words "Impossibility" every time. Is seems to me that the most preaching going on seems to be within the religion of Atheism. Yes, it is a religion. To misquote CH, I hold that we are all Christians here, the Atheists just believe in one less God than I.

The focus here is on people, and their right to express their opinions, not your the superiority of one type of view. I hope you understand that, because your moderation of this thread has been heavy handed with Literalists, and been much too light it seems with people more aligned with your opinion.

*winces* Here comes the banning stick.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Doc Savage said:
I didn't start this conversation...I just joined it. Nor was I the one who brought God in on it. But if others can express their doubts, I see no reason why I can't express my faith.
I wasn't talking about holding back your own faith, but giving credit to other's. I honestly hope that there was enough evidence for me to believe in God on this Earth or enough for you to see that there isn't so that we could share the same view, but unfortunately it doesn't appear so.

In the end it doesn't matter, though, as long as we can both extend our hands to each other and say "you could be right". In the end, it's the respect we show at each other that makes us human, not our beliefs.

fortuneandglory said:
*winces* Here comes the banning stick.
You'll make a fine mod one day, should you decide to hang around long enough.
 

Johan

Active member
Finn said:
I wasn't talking about holding back your own faith, but giving credit to other's. I honestly hope that there was enough evidence for me to believe in God on this Earth or enough for you to see that there isn't so that we could share the same view, but unfortunately it doesn't appear so.

In the end it doesn't matter, though, as long as we can both extend our hands to each other and say "you could be right". In the end, it's the respect we show at each other that makes us human, not our beliefs.

You'll make a fine mod one day, should you decide to hang around long enough.

I do and will continue to state my beliefs as fact. Becuase I cannot deny it's authenticity after the things I have seen in my own life. People can share there opinions but they will not change the way I believe...I've witnessed too much for that. I will never say "I may be wrong" in regards to the diety of Christ or anything in scripture...I leave that up to whoever is listening to determine; to have doubt in my own beliefs would be hypocracy and an abomination. I respect what you have to say, and I don't say that "you have to believe what I am saying", I'm just stating what I know to be true. It's not up to me to convince you to believe me or not.
 

intergamer

New member
IndyJohan said:
Has your head been in a hole?....I've seen it firsthand countless times. God is obsessed with man, he loves to meddle in man's affairs. He loves to facinate the human mind with his enormity. Hey, he even became a human, because he is so in love with us.

I for one have a formally trained mathetmatical/scientific mind, capable of analyzing and reducing "enormity" and your so called "miracles". It's simply ockham's razor...
 

Doc Savage

New member
intergamer said:
I for one have a formally trained mathetmatical/scientific mind, capable of analyzing and reducing "enormity" and your so called "miracles". It's simply ockham's razor...
I'll go all out here...
I have seen God's provision in my life. Not just some "someone gave us groceries" way, but needing and asking God for specific things and seeing them come to pass. It was God's direct provision that got me out of financial debt.

I have been healed by the power of God. I had gout to the point that I couldn't work without being in agony. My faith in and praise of God allowed Him to heal me of it...not to mention countless other ailments.

I've been delivered by the power of God. When I was born again, I was a self-mutilator, a suicidal who had been placed on anti-psychotics. Involvement in witchcraft and a host of other things had me bound beyond measure. I smoked three packs of cigarettes a day. With faith and prayer, I was set free. Not a gradual progression, mind you...I was set free in an instant.

I could go on and on. I think my previous posts will show that I'm not one for spurious claims.

Please understand I hold you in highest regard; however, I don't care how fine a mind you have, intergamer, it can't explain away what God has done for me.
 

Johan

Active member
intergamer said:
I for one have a formally trained mathetmatical/scientific mind, capable of analyzing and reducing "enormity" and your so called "miracles". It's simply ockham's razor...

HAHA...sorry to chuckle. But I've never prayed for a blind eye in the name of science to have it instantly see, as I have in the name of my God. I don't recall science ever sending an angel into my room to show me a picture for several minutes (yes I even pinched myself to make sure I was awake).
I've never seen science create a perfectly formed hand in a cloud instantly after the same hand was painted on a canvas during a worship set in front of hundreds. I've never seen science grow teeth in a matter of seconds (some even made of gold (which by the way blew a few dentists minds away).I've never seen science fill up an empty gas tank so I could drive 10 hours strait after I saw that it was empty. I don't recall science ever sending a legion of angels to sing with my band (we all heard it). (these are only a few examples) Any scientific knowledge you have was created by the creator....you only know the extent you do because he has revealed that part of his creation. Your scientific/mathematical knowledge means nothing to Him, you sound just like the magicians/scientists in Moses' day that thought they could do the same miricles.
 

fortuneandglory

New member
And you know, you don't have to experience a miracle to be a Christian... I've never experienced a miracle before. Sure, I've prayed. I pray all the time. I belive in miracles, and I've never seen them before.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
IndyJohan said:
I've never seen science create a perfectly formed hand in a cloud instantly after the same hand was painted on a canvas during a worship set in front of hundreds. I've never seen science grow teeth in a matter of seconds (some even made of gold (which by the way blew a few dentists minds away).I've never seen science fill up an empty gas tank so I could drive 10 hours strait after I saw that it was empty. I don't recall science ever sending a legion of angels to sing with my band (we all heard it). (these are only a few examples)
Woah. If I was even a tad more cynical I'd make a comment including a padded cell (which I'd probably regret afterwards), but thank heavens I'm not, so I'll just set to marvel how this much has happened to a single man.
 

Doc Savage

New member
Finn said:
Woah. If I was even a tad more cynical I'd make a comment including a padded cell (which I'd probably regret afterwards), but thank heavens I'm not, so I'll just set to marvel how this much has happened to a single man.
What, no comment on mine? ;)
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
I just thought, after those "ha has", that a man of that blessing should consider himself lucky... not cocky.
 

intergamer

New member
Finn said:
Woah. If I was even a tad more cynical I'd make a comment including a padded cell (which I'd probably regret afterwards), but thank heavens I'm not, so I'll just set to marvel how this much has happened to a single man.

I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is also counter to the church, it's rather cultish :eek:
 

Johan

Active member
intergamer said:
I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is also counter to the church, it's rather cultish :eek:

If you've ever read the bible the things I've witnessed is far from cultish and rather normal. There are some groups in parts of the church that would denounce these things, but if they read scripture for what it is...there is nothing to quesiton. And Finn, I'm not bragging. Why would I brag about something I haven't done but rather what God has. Besides, scripture wants me to testify of these things; I'm just giving some examples of how I've seen God work.
As for the padded cell...they thought the same thing of John The Baptist...so I'll gladly accept it as verbal persecution.
 
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