The Bleach Bypass Effect

swords

New member
I just read this idea from one of the members at the Indyfan forum, and it sounds fantastic. Spielberg used a very high dosage of the bleach bypass effect for both Saving Private Ryan and Minority Report, it involves the drainage of colour. It has been used for other films too, such as Pitch Black. I never knew what it was called before, but I did notice the difference in the picture when watching Saving Private Ryan and Minority Report, the colour scheme is definitely toned down to the point of pale and dark complextion.

Now I don't know if I defined "bleach bypass" correctly, but I know what it drives at, and Spielberg's SPR is an example of it. And like the other member said at the other forum, it gives a dirty, gritty look, could we possibly see this effect in Indy 4? An kind of innovated grittiest in comparison, yet contrasted to, Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Or is it perhaps an too extreme approach, that it might dampen the picture if you will?

Well I certainly prefer this to digital perfection...
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
i`m completely with you.

that dirty style would fit perfectly to the adventure and (now) 50s look of indy4.
indeed all the films of the trilogies have been grainy and dirty...
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
I don't think it would really work for Indy. The trilogy always had a slightly unfinished, imperfect quality to it, with something intanglible to Raiders, Temple being somewhat reminiscent of those old 50's claymation action scenes (you know, Sinbad, Jason, and all of that), and Crusade having factual errors everywhere.

I think the bleach bypass effect looks too "professional," if that's the word.
 

swords

New member
Good points. I agree with torao, and yet I understand what Attila's driving at. The Saving Private Ryan look was achieved simply my munipulation of the picture(if thats a appropriate way of describing it), which was simply achieved by technical aspects. The Raiders look is more authentic I guess.

In case no one's seen Saving Private Ryan, heres some screenshots:

http://www.beaconschool.org/~kmadera/index2.html

Beware, theres kind of a graphic shot near the bottom[rather quickly I looked for a site with a bunch of shots, just to show what it looks like]

So hopefully if anybody knows how the bleaching process works by all means post it, if not this is what I mean. Heads up to the guy at the other forum if he's reading this, I like your suggestion.
 

FordFan

Well-known member
I want Indy 4 to look like Indy 1-3. I don't like the idea of meshing that idea with the last Indiana Jones movie.
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
a pretty good explanation:

http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/html/bleach_bypass.html


well...you could be right attila! i think i maybe was a bit wrong with my imagination of what it finally really looks like because that bleach bypass effect doesn`t make the picture more grainy looking(though i had that in mind too from spr or mr). so i think they should use that filter(if there`s anything like that) that could make it more grainy and could include some flaws into the pic. maybe there are any experts around here who have a good knowledge on that and can help us...:)
 

swords

New member
Thanks for the link, I understand the process a lot better. So it's not really a manipulation of the picture so to speak, more like a draw back on colour saturation.

Well since I presented the idea in the first place, I feel obliged to support it, and not that it's a burden or anything, but I truly believe it would fit an Indiana Jones adventure. I guess it's really just a question who has more say in the matter, already SS has said no to GL's filming it digitally, in fact now this option is open if they want to do it. Has anybody seen MR? Spielberg intended it to be film noirish, and the bleach bypassing certianly helped.

Not that Indiana Jones is in that category, it's not a film noir, but the technique still works for other gendres, as Minority Report held some adventure and action and looked just as good on screen using this process. It didn't detract from the action at all, in fact I found it added to it(or maybe it's just Spielberg's direction Im praising here!), well direction or camera colour scheme, they both were executed well.

But not like I would complain if they just used the ordinary process, as you two have explained already.
 

00Kevin

Indyfan
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think it would really work for Indy. The trilogy always had a slightly unfinished, imperfect quality to it, with something intanglible to Raiders, Temple being somewhat reminiscent of those old 50's claymation action scenes (you know, Sinbad, Jason, and all of that), and Crusade having factual errors everywhere.

I think the bleach bypass effect looks too "professional," if that's the word.

I agree with you in that I am not for this bleach bypass, but for a different reason:

-It would through the whole series off! we go from LC to indy 4, with VERY different film quality!!! I just don't think it's for indy, indy's not that kind of film, if they had done that for raiders, I would be annoyed by it

and I didn't like the film quality of SPR and MR
 

swords

New member
Kasminski just rang a bell for me and apparently theres already a thread which I seemed to have innocently stolen as a idea for this thread, just no mention of Kasminski(forgive me:):

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=3708

Hmmm, am I the only one who likes his transfer? Seriously though, if you had to choose between filming it digitally or this, which one would be more ideal? I already explained why its a good idea, but we'll see what the future has in store.

In other words, I want a good arguement in support of this opposition(of my thread). Already it was noted that it is "too professional", but filmaking is for professionals.;)

I will predict that we will be seeing this style in Indy 4.

Yep, Steven Spielberg is going to have it this way, who doesn't think so and why?
 

NileQT87

Member
star wars ot was just as gritty as indiana jones. look at anh...its grittier than rotla. the gritty look makes it more realistic. when i watch an 80s film i often end up reminding myself an hour after its over that it wasnt real. now i see stuff with cgi and morphing and im like...dude that is so fake. the new star wars everything in them works perfectly and no blaster shots make marks on the walls. in the ot, han solo has to hit the millennium falcon just to get it to work, and even then it rarely does. thats the realness of the sw ot and indy.
 

swords

New member
I need a defintion of what "ot" is, Im not familiar. From what you posted, I think I agree with you.
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
NileQT87-Solo_Baggins said:
star wars ot was just as gritty as indiana jones. look at anh...its grittier than rotla. the gritty look makes it more realistic. when i watch an 80s film i often end up reminding myself an hour after its over that it wasnt real. now i see stuff with cgi and morphing and im like...dude that is so fake. the new star wars everything in them works perfectly and no blaster shots make marks on the walls. in the ot, han solo has to hit the millennium falcon just to get it to work, and even then it rarely does. thats the realness of the sw ot and indy.


you´re damn right, nile.
imo blade runner is also a great example for that grainy and dirty look that gives those films a very special reality and coolness. it`s just the best to use for a adventure flick as indiana jones...
but i`m pretty sure steven will do the right things to create the indy-adventure-atmosphere. at least i try to be that sure....*sigh*
 

FordFan

Well-known member
I think Kaminski's work takes too much of a flashy showcase though. It takes my attention completely from the movie. I started that last topic, and I think Indy 4 should look in sync with the other three. That's just me.
 

Tennessee Buck

New member
I would hope that Spielberg doesn't opt for the bleachy, highly contrast images he has used since [bold]SAVING PRIVATE RYAN[/bold] - it is totally inappropriate for an Indy adventure. He may go for more sepia, amber tones...who knows.

Even [bold]MINORITY REPORT[/bold], a good film overall, is hard to watch - it gives you a headache with its nearly monochromatic images.
 

swords

New member
Tennessee Buck said:
I would hope that Spielberg doesn't opt for the bleachy, highly contrast images he has used since [bold]SAVING PRIVATE RYAN[/bold] - it is totally inappropriate for an Indy adventure. He may go for more sepia, amber tones...who knows.

Even [bold]MINORITY REPORT[/bold], a good film overall, is hard to watch - it gives you a headache with its nearly monochromatic images.

How about, maybe "Catch Me If You Can?" type colouring? Or is that instead too bright?
 

indydude

New member
I agree with Tenasee Buck that it should not be as bleachy as Private Ryan, because "Ryan" was a war movie and it was apropriate to bleach it becuase it makes it look dark and gritty, but for an Indy film? no, because Indy is not a serious film like "Ryan" or "BoB"(band of brothers).
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I have to agree a little with swords on this one. I was watching On of the three last week and I noticed the originals films have an almost animated look about them (maybe it is because of the transfer). I think the colors of an adventure series should reflect that sort of surrealistic nature, not be gritty and bleached out.
 
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