SAVING the world from homosexual behaviour is as important as saving the rainforests, the Pope has declared in his annual Christmas message.
Benedict XVI has stressed the importance of traditional marriage and condemned gay acts as against God's will.
He also attacked transsexuals, saying: "It is not man who decides who is a man or woman but God."
Pope Benedict, 82, known as "God's rottweiler" for his hardline views, made the comments in his address to the Vatican's governing body, the Curia.
"The Church must defend not only the earth, the water and the air as gifts of creation belonging to everyone, but it must also protect mankind against the destruction of itself," he said.
"The tropical forests deserve our protection but man as a creature deserves it no less."
In a clear reference to homosexuality, he said the failure to respect the union between a man and a woman amounted to the "auto-destruction of mankind".
Awww come on. That's what his religion believes, that's what it says in the Bible. What do you expect his feelings on the matter to be?
Actually, the bible doesn't really go into too much detail on the whole gay issue*, but states pretty clearly over and over that you should not get a divorce under any circumstances. Also something about wearing clothes made with two different threads is a no-no. And I think something about women who leave their head uncovered while praying...I guess people just pick and choose what they want to listen to.
*Sodom and Gomorrah is probably most often cited as the passage against homosexuality, but one could view the issue as pedophilia, and not necessarily homosexual behavior. Also, since prostitution was big, that could have been the reason. And I should note that Jewish texts don't stress the homosexual part, mostly the thing about the angels not being invited into homes and the rudeness of the city.
Actually, the bible doesn't really go into too much detail on the whole gay issue*, but states pretty clearly over and over that you should not get a divorce under any circumstances. Also something about wearing clothes made with two different threads is a no-no. And I think something about women who leave their head uncovered while praying...I guess people just pick and choose what they want to listen to.
*Sodom and Gomorrah is probably most often cited as the passage against homosexuality, but one could view the issue as pedophilia, and not necessarily homosexual behavior. Also, since prostitution was big, that could have been the reason. And I should note that Jewish texts don't stress the homosexual part, mostly the thing about the angels not being invited into homes and the rudeness of the city.
Actually the Bible states pretty clearly that a man and a man are not supposed to be together. So you can say what you want, it makes it pretty clear. Don't try to bend the issue into saying that the Bible doesn't say it's not okay but that you just shouldn't divorce. Whatever your personal stance on the issue may be, it says what it says.
Actually the Bible states pretty clearly that a man and a man are not supposed to be together. So you can say what you want, it makes it pretty clear. Don't try to bend the issue into saying that the Bible doesn't say it's not okay but that you just shouldn't divorce. Whatever your personal stance on the issue may be, it says what it says.
You're right, I misspoke. In my Catholic high school, my religion teacher went over and over S&G (Catholics aren't big on quoting the bible anyway, they do a lot based on teaching and tradition), but didn't give us any other verse to back it up. I assumed that since he didn't present any other evidence, there wasn't any. A quick google search showed me I was wrong. I apologize.
It doesn't negate the fact though that the bible tells people not to do plenty of things that people still do and don't think twice about. Why are some issues made bigger than others? Why are we allowed to pick and choose what we feel is morally right? If we use the bible as a source of moral code, shouldn't we adhere to ALL the rules in it, not just ones we see find fit in with our own personal agendas? I'm not calling you out on this, just asking the questions in general.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gear guardian
Who here was making fun of the poop?-er, I mean pope?...
Well I was.
I was raised roman catholic, and I went through grades 1-8 in a catholic school. I never understood this pope business. There is no biblical reference that I can think of to substantiate or justify the vatican. The pope is not my leader, and he doesn't speak for me. I didn't vote for him. So, he wants to speak out against homosexuality. I think if anyone out there wants to single out a group of people, or to make their personal views public--especially when it's an attempt to enforce a doctrine/agenda, well then I am allowed to say what I think about it. My friendships with gay people have shown me that your religious beliefs are more of a choice than your sexual preference. I didn't have to choose to be straight, for example, so why should someone who didn't choose to be gay be turned into some sort of ideological scapegoat for this nazi?
You're right, I misspoke. In my Catholic high school, my religion teacher went over and over S&G (Catholics aren't big on quoting the bible anyway, they do a lot based on teaching and tradition), but didn't give us any other verse to back it up. I assumed that since he didn't present any other evidence, there wasn't any. A quick google search showed me I was wrong. I apologize.
It doesn't negate the fact though that the bible tells people not to do plenty of things that people still do and don't think twice about. Why are some issues made bigger than others? Why are we allowed to pick and choose what we feel is morally right? If we use the bible as a source of moral code, shouldn't we adhere to ALL the rules in it, not just ones we see find fit in with our own personal agendas? I'm not calling you out on this, just asking the questions in general.
But not everyone who believes in what the Bible has to say sees it as just a morality code. They see it as the word of God. From their point of view it is larger than just a set of morals, it's just the way things are. Those people believe in an invisible man in the sky so what kind of sense do you think you could talk into them on this issue? I think you'd find that most people who do believe it is wrong, regardless, don't really care one way or the other what those people do so long as it doesn't affect them in any way.
As far as trying to adhere to ALL the rules in it. Yeah you're supposed to, but everyone sins. The Bible says man isn't perfect and that's why Jesus died for our sins, to pay for them. So you can be forgiven for your sins. Even though you should really try not to sin. A murderer can go to heaven if he repents. And I guess, from the standpoint of what the Bible says, a gay person could go to heaven if they repent.
I am not saying I think gay people are going to Hell. Seriously. That's just how the Bible puts it. I'm just stating how it is.
But I mean, I really do get where you're coming from... yeah. But I realized at some point that you just can't change a person's views on something like this.
I guess my major issue with it is that a gay person shouldn't have to repent. It's not a choice, so it bothers me that people view it as such. But I understand I can't get everyone to agree with me on that. It just gets under my skin.
I'm a devout Christian, and quite frankly, I hate the sign-waving, verbally brutal gay-bashing some believers engage in. However, I also hate the bashing of Christian views on homosexuality, which are dominantly anti-gay. When I was a younger man, I struggled with homosexual urges, and literally felt no desire for the opposite sex. I know what it feels like. I also know that it's possible to change. I believe that homosexuality is a moral decision, and that's that. If you don't agree, well, too bad. That's my view and I have a right to be as vocal as pro-gay groups are.
I was raised roman catholic, and I went through grades 1-8 in a catholic school. I never understood this pope business. There is no biblical reference that I can think of to substantiate or justify the vatican. The pope is not my leader, and he doesn't speak for me. I didn't vote for him. So, he wants to speak out against homosexuality. I think if anyone out there wants to single out a group of people, or to make their personal views public--especially when it's an attempt to enforce a doctrine/agenda, well then I am allowed to say what I think about it. My friendships with gay people have shown me that your religious beliefs are more of a choice than your sexual preference. I didn't have to choose to be straight, for example, so why should someone who didn't choose to be gay be turned into some sort of ideological scapegoat for this nazi?
I really don't want to get into this discussion, especially with people who speak out of ignorance and are so adamant without actually understanding the situation, but I need to set some of you mouthing off incorrectly straight.
Catholics don't think gays are going to hell. It's not a sin to be gay. It's a sin to lie with another man. You can be gay, but the sexual acts associated with being gay are where the sin is considered to be.
Also, if you really think there is an anti-homosexual agenda from the pope you need to look deeper. You're forgetting what Catholics actually believe. They're not supposed to engage in sex outside of marriage or ever supposed to use any form of contraception because they believe that is violating the actual sacred act of intercourse between a couple as it's violating the "be fruitful and multiply" thing. That opens up a whole other can of worms, but if you're spewing this garbage on this board at least have an understanding of what you're speaking about. A straight man having anal sex with a straight woman or a woman using contraception is on the same level.
This goes out to all of you: I'm not here to defend people's religion, but if you're going to make sweeping statements against a religion of people and their beliefs because you don't agree with them you're far more intolerant than those people.
Catholics don't think gays are going to hell. It's not a sin to be gay. It's a sin to lie with another man. You can be gay, but the sexual acts associated with being gay are where the sin is considered to be.
I never understood this, and my teacher acted like it was being accepting. You can be gay, but you can't do anything about it. Basically, you can't find another person to love and be with in a sexual way like everyone else, because that's wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Magic Rat
Also, if you really think there is an anti-homosexual agenda from the pope you need to look deeper. You're forgetting what Catholics actually believe. They're not supposed to engage in sex outside of marriage or ever supposed to use any form of contraception because they believe that is violating the actual sacred act of intercourse between a couple as it's violating the "be fruitful and multiply" thing. That opens up a whole other can of worms, but if you're spewing this garbage on this board at least have an understanding of what you're speaking about. A straight man having anal sex with a straight woman or a woman using contraception is on the same level.
Very true, so I can see where the pope is coming from when it's put like that. I just don't agree with it for several reasons. Gays can't married, and are not entitled to the same rights as others because of this. So, really, you're just saying they can never have sex. Ever. Not a pleasant thought.
I was baptized Catholic, so many Catholics will tell you that makes me Catholic. I went to Catholic high school, and I learned a lot about their beliefs. I just don't agree with many of them.
I'm not saying that all Catholics are bad, or even that the Pope is bad. I just don't like how some people can view it as accepting of another's sexuality by saying "You won't go to hell for being gay, just if you act on it."
