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Old 02-13-2012, 01:01 AM   #201
Montana Smith
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I figured since there's an Indy 4 haters thread, there should be a Indy 4 lovers thread. Who else loves Indy 4?

So, what was the turning point for you?
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:43 AM   #202
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So, what was the turning point for you?

Repeated views and a growing feeling that I didn't have to love the film because it had Indiana Jones in the name. At the time I made this thread, I was 17 and I loved everything with the IJ name on it and we had a lot of very crazy characters here who had hated the film before it even came out. So I figured my own doubts were wrong and I was just giving into what was popular around here and defended it. Sort of like I put blinders on because it was a new Indiana Jones film! But as time's gone by and I've gotten older, I still love Indiana Jones but I can see the film's flaws clearly, there is no brand love or loyalty or sense that I need to defend it blinding me.

I don't truly hate, or truly love the film. It's not the worst film ever to me. I don't feel this movie "raped my childhood" despite Indy being a big part of my childhood; It's not non-canon to me. It's just an utter disappointment in many ways which I feel very ambivalent over, sometimes hating it a lot, other times really just enjoying it the way I would one of The Mummy films: as A mindless, fun adventure film. I have a lot of bittersweet mixed emotions regarding this one.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:00 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Repeated views and a growing feeling that I didn't have to love the film because it had Indiana Jones in the name. At the time I made this thread, I was 17 and I loved everything with the IJ name on it and we had a lot of very crazy characters here who had hated the film before it even came out. So I figured my own doubts were wrong and I was just giving into what was popular around here and defended it. Sort of like I put blinders on because it was a new Indiana Jones film! But as time's gone by and I've gotten older, I still love Indiana Jones but I can see the film's flaws clearly, there is no brand love or loyalty or sense that I need to defend it blinding me.

I don't truly hate, or truly love the film. It's not the worst film ever to me. I don't feel this movie "raped my childhood" despite Indy being a big part of my childhood; It's not non-canon to me. It's just an utter disappointment in many ways which I feel very ambivalent over, sometimes hating it a lot, other times really just enjoying it the way I would one of The Mummy films: as A mindless, fun adventure film. I have a lot of bittersweet mixed emotions regarding this one.

There are a few members recently expressing a growing disappointment.

I found that the film didn't improve with age, but rather festered in the mind so that I feel less inclined to accept it.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:30 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
It's just an utter disappointment in many ways which I feel very ambivalent over, sometimes hating it a lot, other times really just enjoying it the way I would one of The Mummy films: as A mindless, fun adventure film. I have a lot of bittersweet mixed emotions regarding this one.

Maybe you have to ask yourself which emotion/feeling is most appropriate given the subject i.e. an Indiana Jones movie... I’d like to think I’m pragmatic about it in that I just see it as a well made (in relative terms) and enjoyable/entertaining action movie… to be ranked higher or lower than its peers e.g. ranked lower than Raiders, TLC, the Star Wars movies, Casino Royale but higher than Iron Man, Sherlock Holmes, Quantom of Solace, POTC etc. etc.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:35 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Maybe you have to ask yourself which emotion/feeling is most appropriate given the subject i.e. an Indiana Jones movie... I’d like to think I’m pragmatic about it in that I just see it as a well made (in relative terms) and enjoyable/entertaining action movie… to be ranked higher or lower than its peers e.g. ranked lower than Raiders, TLC, the Star Wars movies, Casino Royale but higher than Iron Man, Sherlock Holmes, Quantom of Solace, POTC etc. etc.

Sherlock Holmes was better. Didn't see any of those others, but it's about on par with POTC.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:38 AM   #206
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If we're rating the film against others, then I'd say that Iron Man was much more enjoyable, and POTC much more engaging - mainly because of Johnny Depp's portrayal.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:22 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Sherlock Holmes was better. Didn't see any of those others, but it's about on par with POTC.

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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
If we're rating the film against others, then I'd say that Iron Man was much more enjoyable, and POTC much more engaging - mainly because of Johnny Depp's portrayal.

Whatever you're poison is... Sherlock Holmes? Not my cup of tea. I think the BBC series is infinitely better than the 2 movies (but I would say that). Iron Man 1 was pretty average and Iron Man 2 was an inferior sequel (IMHO). POTC - I'd put at the bottom of the list, but I'd agree that Johnny Depp is now a much more compelling leading man/actor than Harrison Ford.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:05 AM   #208
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Figured this should be bumped. I'm starting to love KOTCS again My feelings heavily teeter back and forth but at the end of the day it is an Indiana Jones film, it is an incredibly fun film, it is like the other films also a great period piece. It is just perfect overall. I think the IJ series can be divided into three categories: Fun romps (KOTCS and ToD) and Deep Adventures (LC) and Classics (Raiders). KOTCS to me is a fun adventure, though, a fun, wild ride, and I was happy to see Indy still doing his thing well into the 1950s. Not every IJ film needs to be on the level of Raiders to be good. They're only adventure films, meant to arouse excitement, escapism, and play upon the imagination, and KOTCS succeeds easily in all those areas...Let the hate die, really. It's a fun, mindless film at it's worst.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Figured this should be bumped.
Congratulations, Raiders112390! You didn't start a new thread on the subject. Mazeltov!
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I can see the film's flaws clearly,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
It is just perfect overall.
Raiders112390, you "can see the film's flaws clearly" but Indy 4 is "perfect overall"? How can Indy 4 be PERFECT if it has recognizable flaws?
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I think the IJ series can be divided into three categories: Fun romps (KOTCS and ToD) and Deep Adventures (LC) and Classics (Raiders).
3 categories for 4 movies. That's a brilliant sign of a genius.

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:03 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Congratulations, Raiders112390! You didn't start a new thread on the subject. Mazeltov!

Raiders112390, you "can see the film's flaws clearly" but Indy 4 is "perfect overall"? How can Indy 4 be PERFECT if it has recognizable flaws?
3 categories for 4 movies. That's a brilliant sign of a genius.

I like how you removed the part where I said my feelings drift back and forth on the film. Convenient.

And yeah, I feel TOD and KOTCS are in the same category--Both mindlessly fun adventure films to just enjoy and stretch your sense of disbelief while watching. LC is "better", a deeper film than Raiders (due to the Father-Son dynamic and history), but is also comedic. It's not really a CLASSIC in the way Raiders is. Raiders has funny moments but is mostly serious. They're all different of course, but it's the way I chose to categorize them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #211
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Funnily enough I sat down to watch KOTCS with my parents last weekend (as they were visiting and wanted to watch a family/adventure movie in the evening... and they'd not seen KOTCS). They thought it was great because it was much more "old fashioned" than the more modern action/adventure movies. At sixty somethings themselves, they really liked that the movie focused on an older character/hero.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:50 PM   #212
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Everytime Indiana Jones is having a marathon on USA or what have you, I get friends texting me and stuff or posting on my Facebook that they're gonna watch them all in order. They all love every film.

I went to a friend's house and watched KOTCS with his family. They all love it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #213
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When everyone I know or on Youtube videos say they "can't believe all the hate it gets", maybe we should all take note that if everyone is saying that, then maybe there isn't any more hate for this film than for any other Indiana Jones film.

I honestly think and can tell that the amount of "hate" this film gets is truly not existant. Everyone I know loves every Indiana Jones film and those who I know who went to see it when it was in theaters were all happy about the film, while it was me who took convincing to go a second time by a group of buddies of mine who loved it.

I honestly think there isn't any more hate for this film than any other Indy film. It is exagerrated to make it seem like there is alot of hate for it.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:15 AM   #214
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When everyone I know or on Youtube videos say they "can't believe all the hate it gets", maybe we should all take note that if everyone is saying that, then maybe there isn't any more hate for this film than for any other Indiana Jones film.

I honestly think and can tell that the amount of "hate" this film gets is truly not existant. Everyone I know loves every Indiana Jones film and those who I know who went to see it when it was in theaters were all happy about the film, while it was me who took convincing to go a second time by a group of buddies of mine who loved it.

I honestly think there isn't any more hate for this film than any other Indy film. It is exagerrated to make it seem like there is alot of hate for it.

Actual quality aside, I think KOTCS is probably the least significant Indy movie in terms of cultural/cinematic impact... but personally speaking, I think the worst one can feel about it is indifference.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #215
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i loved it, the fridge nuclear jump, the beginning in the Area 51 base was really Indyish, the aliens (already seen em in the marvel comics), etc...

Just wasnt that keen on the monkeys gotta be honest

Regards,

LJ
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #216
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I've been a fan and staunch defender of KotCS and have found that far more people liked the film than the contrary. I've quoted this before with friends: the haters seem like so many because angry people have much louder voices than the greater majority who are quietly content. That's why this thread is so cathardic- it gives us of like-minds a place to agree on something without an expected debate. The thread that the haters started shows a general disagreement over which parts they didn't like it, but I find that most everyone agrees it was at least a "good movie" but not a "great movie". And while I agree that certain images might have been reconsidered or ignored altogether, I've still enjoyed it immensely and I can't imagine there will come a day when I tire of it. I've come to terms that Indy IV will most likely be the final installment, but I think it was an appropriate swan-song nonetheless. Harrison looked great; the dialogue was well written; the stunts in the hangar were some of the best ever; and the subject material was intriguing. What more can we really ask for?
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:15 AM   #217
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I've quoted this before with friends: the haters seem like so many because angry people have much louder voices than the greater majority who are quietly content. That's why this thread is so cathardic- it gives us of like-minds a place to agree on something without an expected debate.

Voices of hate are generally louder, and more vigorous.

There's a trend where it's assumed to be 'more cool' to express hate than love: to be outside (and above?) something, than to be confined within it. Yet, I believe a lot of the overblown hate is a kneejerk reaction by those eager to be in the cooler looking club.

I've argued for a long time that you can't 'hate' a movie if there's something you like in it. I speak as I find. I know what I like and I know what I don't like. Also know that it's hard to express a firm positive attitude to something when you expect the reaction to be adverse.

I loved Sucker Punch, but I know a lot of people didn't. So I can understand the way lovers of KOTCS feel. It's the right of every individual to like whatever they want, but the internet is a constant battle for conformity. Obviously it's a battle that can't be won by any side. It's also a fight you can play with and poke fun at!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwingnut
Harrison looked great;

Yes. Harrison was the one constant positive throughout the film. He was definitely still Indy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwingnut
the stunts in the hangar were some of the best ever

Up until the landing of the fridge the movie was at its best.

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Originally Posted by foreverwingnut
and the subject material was intriguing.

I found it intriguing that it's genesis was in the Raiders Story Conference. Of course, I have my own unpopular Indyverse theory based on that.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:38 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Voices of hate are generally louder, and more vigorous.

There's a trend where it's assumed to be 'more cool' to express hate than love: to be outside (and above?) something, than to be confined within it. Yet, I believe a lot of the overblown hate is a kneejerk reaction by those eager to be in the cooler looking club.

I've argued for a long time that you can't 'hate' a movie if there's something you like in it. I speak as I find. I know what I like and I know what I don't like. Also know that it's hard to express a firm positive attitude to something when you expect the reaction to be adverse.

I loved Sucker Punch, but I know a lot of people didn't. So I can understand the way lovers of KOTCS feel. It's the right of every individual to like whatever they want, but the internet is a constant battle for conformity. Obviously it's a battle that can't be won by any side. It's also a fight you can play with and poke fun at!



Yes. Harrison was the one constant positive throughout the film. He was definitely still Indy.



Up until the landing of the fridge the movie was at its best.



I found it intriguing that it's genesis was in the Raiders Story Conference. Of course, I have my own unpopular Indyverse theory based on that.
Good post Montana - I agree with all you say... apart form the Sucker Punch thing.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:37 AM   #219
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I think Sucker Punch as well as Indy 4 was all about your expectaions going in. I had low expectations of Sucker Punch therefore I wasn't disapointed and actually enjoyed it. I don't need to own it or even see it again any time soon but it was enjoyable. I went in to Indy 4 with expectations through the roof....eh you see where this is going.


If it weren't for that freakin fridge or the mothership takeoff I might not have the opinion of the movie I have now.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:05 AM   #220
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Its a good film but it could have been a great film like Raiders and Crusade, i think its on par with Temple. I liked the nuke fridge seen it was the same as Indy jumping out of a plane in a rubber dinghy in Temple of doom lol. the bomb cloud was a great scene. just wish they had got Sean back just for one seen and had Saller back instead of Mac. And they should have made Indy darker and with more of a edge to his character like Raiders and Tempe when he was on the rope bridge he was a insane mad man with nothing to loose.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:13 PM   #221
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My message got posted in the wrong topic...I will edit this and hopefully put the correct reply here in a moment

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390

And yeah, I feel TOD and KOTCS are in the same category--Both mindlessly fun adventure films to just enjoy and stretch your sense of disbelief while watching. LC is "better", a deeper film than Raiders (due to the Father-Son dynamic and history), but is also comedic. It's not really a CLASSIC in the way Raiders is. Raiders has funny moments but is mostly serious. They're all different of course, but it's the way I chose to categorize them.

I agree with that. I actually find TOD and KOTCS to be the most comicbook like of the 4 movies. LC is comical, but deep and serious in at the same time in relation to the father/son and eternal life - is it worth it? question. I don't need to go in to Raiders since everyone knows how that is.

TOD and Crystal as I mentioned have this cartoony feel to them, even though TOD has slavery and is considered dark, I never really viewed it as a dark movie at all. As a kid it was my favourite movie and sometimes deep down I think it might still be my favourite Indy movie. Though the truth is I can't decide if I even have a favourite. I love how all 4 movies differ yet still hold something the same as the other throughout.

I had not watched an IJ movie since 2009. I had this desire to watch one...and out of all of them...it was KOTCS. I really wanted to see it again, like Temple of Doom, I can sit down and watch KOTCS easily whenever I want, probably because neither movie is to be taken too serious or deep as opposed to Raiders or, to a lesser extent, LC. For the latter I have to be in the right mood for them.

I actually thought after rewatching KOTCS, the movie really isn't that bad at all. I liked it anyway but I was let down somewhat - I still feel the potential for more was there - but I accept it for what it is. I'll go in to a bit more detail.

I think the first half of the movie is really good, it reminds me of an Indy movie easily. I even like the way we have the blue sky and mountains and people messing around on the road at the start. It reminds me of the "innocent" kids expedition on The Last Crusade, which you can in hindsight be aware that, whilst its fun and games now - something sinister awaits in fate (in LC case, the whole grail temple and all the deaths that occur there).

I think from the start - to the warehouse, to all the college and graveyard stuff is really nicely paced and I'd say the movie goes well up until Marion is introduced. I can't believe so much fuss was caused over the fridge...well, I can..but it lasted like 5 seconds. You could blink and miss it. True it kind of makes Indy seem invincible and takes suspension of belief somewhat too far even by Indy standards - we still had cartoony stuff like it in TOD, so I can fogive it. It is just an over the top way to sort of end the first littlle chapter and say "Hey Indy's back!".

To me the fridge scene becomes only an "issue" when paired up with later events - there are just a few too many "large suspension of belief" moments in the same film. Fridge and bascially 4 gigantic drops down cliff faces in one movie..it is a bit too much. If they were in seperate movies, might have been somewhat more stomachable. But it isn't even these large events that are much trouble to me...it is the monkey swing. It just looks so corny and the physics and momentum of the swinging looks really off, the gravity on the scene looks bad. If they were going to do this swinging part, just make it look first person or something. Most of my freinds who like the movie only really cringe at this scene.

Anyway back on top, the first half up until Marion seems fine overall. Acceptable, action, some slower paced stuff, and works nice.

When Marion arrives, it becomes somewhat of a family circus. They are held captive but jokes and and such are being made, comical family arguments and rubber snakes and joke exchanges as they sink. It sort of really grinds on any seriousness the movie did have up til this point, because it still did have some.

The jungle chase I actually liked...I liked the scene where Spalko holds the skull to her chest when Indy and family approach, you see how serious she is taking this and what it means to her. I like the way Irina gets involved, even the sword fight on the trucks - could have been so much better. The music on that scene gives it this fantastical "Peter pan" vibe and not a serious "one mistake and your neck could be impaled by a sword" vibe. As Marion makes comments about Mutt not standing correctly, and so on. Marion just seems like a cartoon of herself and seems more like shes being depicted in Willie Scott's style.

Overall the jungle chase is nice, I even like the ants and can happily accept them carrying a man in to a ant hole, but then we have the tree bending like rubber (this scene could have been done, but to look less comical and cartoony easily). Then we have 3 giant waterfall drops which are really useless and have no sense of tension or even fun..they just drop for about a minute and then its over with..it adds nothing at all except me thinking "this minute could have been used better". Let them drop down one waterfall which isn't huge, then scramble for land or something..let us have a feeling there is some danger.

I like Akator, but we don't see enough of it, and the obelisk trap - which I loved in the trailer, lasted literally for about 18 seconds..I wish let down there. It looked great in the trailer, such a waste of an interesting trap in an Indy movie. As for the finale, I am fine with it, but I wish Irina's death at the end was a bit longer, she vanishes too quickly after setting on fire. We get all the way to the end - and admit it, everyones eager to see the villains demise...but she is there and gone way too quick.

There was just so much that could be done in the second half, even minor tweaks that could have made it better, and just a bit more serious but they went all comical and cartoony somewhat too much near the second half. TOD sure had its comical moments, but on that rope bridge at the end? That was sure worrying! No one was cracking jokes during that segment.

So overall, a nice movie and I am happy to watch it, but just wish the latter half was a bit better.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #223
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I agree with that. I actually find TOD and KOTCS to be the most comicbook like of the 4 movies. LC is comical, but deep and serious in at the same time in relation to the father/son and eternal life - is it worth it? question. I don't need to go in to Raiders since everyone knows how that is.

TOD and Crystal as I mentioned have this cartoony feel to them, even though TOD has slavery and is considered dark, I never really viewed it as a dark movie at all. As a kid it was my favourite movie and sometimes deep down I think it might still be my favourite Indy movie. Though the truth is I can't decide if I even have a favourite. I love how all 4 movies differ yet still hold something the same as the other throughout.

I had not watched an IJ movie since 2009. I had this desire to watch one...and out of all of them...it was KOTCS. I really wanted to see it again, like Temple of Doom, I can sit down and watch KOTCS easily whenever I want, probably because neither movie is to be taken too serious or deep as opposed to Raiders or, to a lesser extent, LC. For the latter I have to be in the right mood for them.

I actually thought after rewatching KOTCS, the movie really isn't that bad at all. I liked it anyway but I was let down somewhat - I still feel the potential for more was there - but I accept it for what it is. I'll go in to a bit more detail.

I think the first half of the movie is really good, it reminds me of an Indy movie easily. I even like the way we have the blue sky and mountains and people messing around on the road at the start. It reminds me of the "innocent" kids expedition on The Last Crusade, which you can in hindsight be aware that, whilst its fun and games now - something sinister awaits in fate (in LC case, the whole grail temple and all the deaths that occur there).

I think from the start - to the warehouse, to all the college and graveyard stuff is really nicely paced and I'd say the movie goes well up until Marion is introduced. I can't believe so much fuss was caused over the fridge...well, I can..but it lasted like 5 seconds. You could blink and miss it. True it kind of makes Indy seem invincible and takes suspension of belief somewhat too far even by Indy standards - we still had cartoony stuff like it in TOD, so I can fogive it. It is just an over the top way to sort of end the first littlle chapter and say "Hey Indy's back!".

To me the fridge scene becomes only an "issue" when paired up with later events - there are just a few too many "large suspension of belief" moments in the same film. Fridge and bascially 4 gigantic drops down cliff faces in one movie..it is a bit too much. If they were in seperate movies, might have been somewhat more stomachable. But it isn't even these large events that are much trouble to me...it is the monkey swing. It just looks so corny and the physics and momentum of the swinging looks really off, the gravity on the scene looks bad. If they were going to do this swinging part, just make it look first person or something. Most of my freinds who like the movie only really cringe at this scene.

Anyway back on top, the first half up until Marion seems fine overall. Acceptable, action, some slower paced stuff, and works nice.

When Marion arrives, it becomes somewhat of a family circus. They are held captive but jokes and and such are being made, comical family arguments and rubber snakes and joke exchanges as they sink. It sort of really grinds on any seriousness the movie did have up til this point, because it still did have some.

The jungle chase I actually liked...I liked the scene where Spalko holds the skull to her chest when Indy and family approach, you see how serious she is taking this and what it means to her. I like the way Irina gets involved, even the sword fight on the trucks - could have been so much better. The music on that scene gives it this fantastical "Peter pan" vibe and not a serious "one mistake and your neck could be impaled by a sword" vibe. As Marion makes comments about Mutt not standing correctly, and so on. Marion just seems like a cartoon of herself and seems more like shes being depicted in Willie Scott's style.

Overall the jungle chase is nice, I even like the ants and can happily accept them carrying a man in to a ant hole, but then we have the tree bending like rubber (this scene could have been done, but to look less comical and cartoony easily). Then we have 3 giant waterfall drops which are really useless and have no sense of tension or even fun..they just drop for about a minute and then its over with..it adds nothing at all except me thinking "this minute could have been used better". Let them drop down one waterfall which isn't huge, then scramble for land or something..let us have a feeling there is some danger.

I like Akator, but we don't see enough of it, and the obelisk trap - which I loved in the trailer, lasted literally for about 18 seconds..I wish let down there. It looked great in the trailer, such a waste of an interesting trap in an Indy movie. As for the finale, I am fine with it, but I wish Irina's death at the end was a bit longer, she vanishes too quickly after setting on fire. We get all the way to the end - and admit it, everyones eager to see the villains demise...but she is there and gone way too quick.

There was just so much that could be done in the second half, even minor tweaks that could have made it better, and just a bit more serious but they went all comical and cartoony somewhat too much near the second half. TOD sure had its comical moments, but on that rope bridge at the end? That was sure worrying! No one was cracking jokes during that segment.

So overall, a nice movie and I am happy to watch it, but just wish the latter half was a bit better.
Good assessment..I agree for the most part..I am different then most people. I dont watch movies with a reviewers eye. I watch for fun. AND like you, I find indy movies fun and enjoyable. To take them any other way is wrong..
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #224
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Watching Indy 4 was the most exciting film I had seen in years. I hope I get the chance to see #5!
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:30 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Lego Indy
Watching Indy 4 was the most exciting film I had seen in years. I hope I get the chance to see #5!
yep..good flick
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