Russians have the Ark?

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
I loved the references to the Ark in both Last Crusade and Crystal Skull, but having another adventure involving the Ark would be a little too repetitious. I honestly rather they go a bold new direction like they did with Indy 4 then go that far in repeating the original.

I think its best having Indy's last adventure of the Ark with Indy being disgusted with the government's handlement and never seeing it or hearing of it ever again.
 

Ska

New member
My idea for another Ark story. Always wanted to do it as a fanfilm, but would have been too large a project for our limited resources.

It's a transmitter, a radio for speaking to God... - Rene Belloq

What if Rene was right after all these years? At the end of ROTLA, we see the Nazis and Belloq being destroyed by the power of the Ark. But what if that's not what really happened? What if everything went as planned for Belloq and the Germans? They weren't destroyed by the Ark. Rather they were "sent" to Heaven.

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Look at the pic above. Where did all the Nazis go? There quite a few soldiers on that island watching the power of the Ark. And they all vanished.

So we have an aged Indy who comes across a long lost Dead Sea Scroll at a dig site (can we see some actual archaeology in an Indy film?) The scroll is basically instructions for using the Ark. Indy realizes that he didn't stop the Nazis after all and must unite with the Ark once again to perform the same ritual that he "kept his eyes shut" from last time.

Heaven is now being destroyed by the Nazis. And there's only one man who can stop them...again. But this time, not to save the World...to save our place for eternity.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Ska said:
My idea for another Ark story. Always wanted to do it as a fanfilm, but would have been too large a project for our limited resources.

It's a transmitter, a radio for speaking to God... - Rene Belloq

What if Rene was right after all these years? At the end of ROTLA, we see the Nazis and Belloq being destroyed by the power of the Ark. But what if that's not what really happened? What if everything went as planned for Belloq and the Germans? They weren't destroyed by the Ark. Rather they were "sent" to Heaven.

Look at the pic above. Where did all the Nazis go? There quite a few soldiers on that island watching the power of the Ark. And they all vanished.

So we have an aged Indy who comes across a long lost Dead Sea Scroll at a dig site (can we see some actual archaeology in an Indy film?) The scroll is basically instructions for using the Ark. Indy realizes that he didn't stop the Nazis after all and must unite with the Ark once again to perform the same ritual that he "kept his eyes shut" from last time.

Heaven is now being destroyed by the Nazis. And there's only one man who can stop them...again. But this time, not to save the World...to save our place for eternity.

In George's original plans 'heaven' would first be the alien mother ship, and then the alien homeworld itself. (That is, in Daniken the Ark was a radio for speaking to the Most High).

Then we're back to Hitler's 'Moon Base Alpha' . Except the aliens would do Indy's job for him, just as they did to Spalko.

If the story went for a full-on religious vision of 'heaven' (which is probably about as likely as the place Jack visited when he climbed the beanstalk), it would end up being more divisive than the artifact in KOTCS.

Indiana Jones thrived on retaining mystery, rather than opening the door wide open to let the viewer see everything.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Montana Smith said:
Indiana Jones thrived on retaining mystery, rather than opening the door wide open to let the viewer see everything.
This. Whenever Indy dabbles with the supernatural, the actual source of the power is never explicitly stated, only heavily alluded to at best.

Save for KotCS, we never get to see a single not-of-this-world entity, which certainly leaves opportunities for interpretations alternate than what is being stated onscreen. All we actually witness is some kind of force <small>(no Star Wars jokes please)</small> at work. For all we know, what Belloq refers to as (Christian/Jewish) "God" and Mola Ram as "Kali" may be the one and the same thing.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Finn said:
This. Whenever Indy dabbles with the supernatural, the actual source of the power is never explicitly stated, only heavily alluded to at best.

Save for KotCS, we never get to see a single not-of-this-world entity, which certainly leaves opportunities for interpretations alternate than what is being stated onscreen. All we actually witness is some kind of force <small>(no Star Wars jokes please)</small> at work. For all we know, what Belloq refers to as (Christian/Jewish) "God" and Mola Ram as "Kali" may be the one and the same thing.

With his story telling George let the characters place their own interpretations onto events, rather than stating them from a narrative point of view. It was a clever ploy that enables access to the films from multiple viewpoints. The only thing we can be sure of is that Indy knows there's something that science can't yet explain.

That's why it was best to hide the Ark away. It served its purpose as a plot device, but it's too powerful to be anywhere but out of commission. And also why we're unlikely to see the aliens again. Their mission was over, so they disappeared from our world.

It seems likely that George would only revisit an artifact as a way of reminding the audience that it once played a part in Indy's life.
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
00Kevin said:
so i watched paul last night, for those of you who didn't see it there are a number of very obvious references to scifi movies from over the years, there is even a scene that takes place in the area 51 warehouse from rotla and kotcs.

so my brain starts ticking....

!!!!!

the russians are in area 51. there is a chase, several boxes fall, one of them gets a panel partially cracked off to reveal... the ark of the covenant. it was probably my favorite part of the movie, a great reference for fans to enjoy, but what if it was more?

a russian soldier passes by and sees the artifact, it seems like if the russians went through the trouble of breaking into the ultimate treasure trove of america's secrets they would at least check out a few of the other boxes. if memory serves, in the nevada scenes after the warehouse you just see 2 car fulls of guys chasing indy, the rest might have stayed behind and scavenged the warehouse.

looking back on that scene, where spielberg reveals the ark in kotcs, has there ever been such a potential set up for a sequel in the indy series? i think this is a great opertunity. I envision indy 5 begining...immendiatly putting you back in the chase at the warehouse, except when the ark is revealed, a figure approaches and inspects it and we follow the ark's story, not indy's...at least for the rest of the opening scene. the rest you can figure out for yourself.

It could have worked with the right script. and really, where else is there to go? you've done the ultimate jewish and christian relics, you did aliens (whatever) what could possibly top all those things? unless you want to chance it and bring a muslim element into the equation there is no catch that could be more interesting than bringing the series full circle. of course, it won't happen, lucas and spielberg wouldn't be interested in reusing a mcguffin. but for me, I had a moment of inspiration, the last great moment indy would likely provide for me, that's all i can ask for.

i'm sure i'm not the first person to present this. but it's the middle of the night, i felt an urge to submit this and there was no way i was about to go sifting through all the other threads. sue me.

This sounds like the ultimate fanboy idea...

Violet said:
Call me crazy.... but I like the idea.

Oh, Violet... I love you -- we're both film-makers, but I am calling you crazy. This sounds like something a thirteen year old came up with -- though with the way George thinks, we may actually end up seeing something like this... if it ever happens.
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
Dr. Gonzo said:
This sounds like the ultimate fanboy idea...



Oh, Violet... I love you -- we're both film-makers, but I am calling you crazy. This sounds like something a thirteen year old came up with -- though with the way George thinks, we may actually end up seeing something like this... if it ever happens.

All the more reason to try to like it now....:p

Really though, it's more because I haven't really been convinced by other artifacts that have been suggested. Eden is the only one that I have ever been convinced of and that, IMO, is still the best of all. The Ark is something I'd be willing to accept IF I haven't heard any other ideas that convince me as much as Eden. I would even be willing to see a Spear of Destiny movie as long as it's done better than the comic (that one was a bit of a disappointment and despite the Librarian already having done it) or even something based on Revelations or all those doomsday prophecies from around the world.

In fact, would people have prefered an Ark return over the Crystal Skull and aliens? I'm personally not sure.

And as for 13 year olds coming up with ideas. Some of the Lucas Indy treatments I've read sounds like stuff I wrote when I was 13. So maybe it isn't quite that off the mark..... And maybe it should be an expectation, since he can pretty do whatever he wants now.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Dr. Gonzo said:
This sounds like something a thirteen year old came up with -- though with the way George thinks, we may actually end up seeing something like this... if it ever happens.

:D

But seriously, I think George might actually agree with you. His aim seemed to be to create the feeling of what it was like to be a kid again (when the subtleties of issues such as history and physics weren't so important).

Violet said:
I would even be willing to see a Spear of Destiny movie as long as it's done better than the comic...

This one has been a seemingly obvious choice ever since ROTLA, considering the way that Ravenscroft portrayed it. Yet, since Ravencroft's novel was passed off as history by his publishers, it's long been a hackneyed story blurring the lines of fact and fiction. It's tainted as a myth created in the early 1970s, in the same way that a similar fictional treatment of the Ark might be tainted as deriving from an early 1980s myth.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Violet said:
And as for 13 year olds coming up with ideas. Some of the Lucas Indy treatments I've read sounds like stuff I wrote when I was 13.
They do say that people may have great differences between their mental and physical ages... some never mature past certain point. Following George Lucas' career extensively makes it appear rather evident.

As does working as a message board moderator.

Montana Smith said:
But seriously, I think George might actually agree with you. His aim seemed to be to create the feeling of what it was like to be a kid again (when the subtleties of issues such as history and physics weren't so important).
Have to comment on this though, since it's an averse example that suggests Lucas may actually be more mature than it appears. The man's got self-conscience, and apart from stating on-record of his aspirations to reach childlike qualities, he's also pretty much claimed that he wants to do things after his own personal vision, public opinion be damned - hardly a motive for a child seeking admiration for his work.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Finn said:
Have to comment on this though, since it's an averse example that suggests Lucas may actually be more mature than it appears. The man's got self-conscience, and apart from stating on-record of his aspirations to reach childlike qualities, he's also pretty much claimed that he wants to do things after his own personal vision, public opinion be damned - hardly a motive for a child seeking admiration for his work.

I have the feeling that it's his own childhood that he's always seeking to recreate. His vision, his story, his home movies, audience be damned.
 
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