Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Phantom-Train

New member
I rarely post at The Raven but visit often. I haven't read every post on Clone Wars but have breezed through some. I try to understand the criticism of Lucas but have yet to read a convincing reason for all the hostility.

How can anyone complain that Lucas is wrong to make the movie he wants to see? Should he come up with an idea, say to himself, "I'd love to make that--and I can, but I think I'll pick out some random internet poster who has never made a film before and ask them to write something else for me?"

I'm probably older than most of you. That may play a part in why I'll always look forward to any film Lucas makes. IMO, taking into consideration all Star Wars and Indy (including the Young Indy films), there have been a few films that haven't lived up to such high expectations. This usually has been where he over-reached. For example, I think Return of the Jedi didn't have two hours worth of story. Neither did Phantom Menace. But this likely resulted in his trying to make trilogies whereas most filmmakers imagination only allows them to squeeze out one film per idea. And, having said that, I love Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace. They're far more charming and imaginative than the best work by most other filmmakers.

The cornball humor in Lucas's recent films seems to be getting attacked a lot too lately. It's always been there. Would any of you ask Martin Scorsese to make more comedies? Why can't you just let George be George? Many of you seem to want him to be Chris Nolan. Today's mood in films reminds me of the mood in '70's films--cynical, dark, angry. In that context Lucas's recent films stand out more as out-of-date. But in the very late '70's and throughout the '80's that hopeful, idealistic, fun and even cornball spirit of his fit right in with many other films of the time--many of which were inspired by his and Speilberg's work. That's why I think my age plays a big part in my opinion. His films have always been goofy, big-hearted, imaginative fun.

I'll see Clone Wars right away.
 

DarthMickey

New member
I'll see Clone Wars right away!

So your 7 years old???? Just a Joke man.

Actually Lucas doesn't make Movies like he use to it was all of this was about.

Example: 1977-Star Wars-Han Blast Greedo with no questions ask.He's an alien bounty Hunter who cares!

see 1997 Star Wars- Lucas screws with Movie and has Greedo shoot first, for he has many object lessons to teach and a good guy character can never do a single thing wrong. Even if it was a Alien who about to kill him.

This single event bodes alarm in adults as to the Prequels and of course it all comes true in the worst way.

American Graffiti-Classic
Star Wars-Classic
Empire strikes Back-Classic
Raiders-Classic
TOD-Classic
Last Crusade-Classic

:dead: after 1990
 

Phantom-Train

New member
Well, we can at least agree that those films you mentioned are classics.

But, let me take one of those classics and pick on it a bit: What if I said that the scene in Temple of Doom when Indy tries seducing Willie Scott with the apple had trite dialogue? What if I said the part where Willie falls off the elephant and then exclaims about how she's fearful of losing her voice--while she loses her voice--was cornball humor? Or where she throws the snake thinking it's an elephant trunk? What if I said that having Short Round save Indy by discovering that fire immediately wears off the effects of the evil spell was cheap and easy? What if I said the rope bridge scene seems to take place over two very different gorges depending on the shot?

Don't get me wrong, I love the movie, but why are all these weaknesses--and you must agree that these are weaknesses--so forgivable but any weakness in the Star Wars Prequels renders the films failures? Same thing with KOTCS. I don't know how all of you who are uninterested in Clone Wars feel about KOTCS but you're certainly aware of the complaints.

Phantom Menace is said by many to be the worst of the Prequels, but I love Liam Neeson as a Jedi. I love Darth Maul. I think the lightsaber dual at the end is the best dual from any SW. I even love the underwater Gungun city with the great Brian Blessed doing the voice of their leader.

You say this whole thing is about the fact that Lucas isn't what he used to be. I'll give you this: he's not a better filmmaker than he was, but his imagination is still strong. To me, that's what has always been most impressive about him. When he's gone I'll terribly miss the potential for a new Lucas film because there's no one else like him in movies and may never be again.

I'm probably the exact opposite from many of you in that if Clone Wars was coming out and George Lucas wasn't involved, I'd actually be less interested in it.
 

DarthMickey

New member
agreed that Liam Neeson could have been a great Jedi in the Movie. I actually thought he would be the Old Obi-Wan of this series and bring a sense of class to the production.Not with Ol G'L's horrible dialog and forcing his new object lesson theorys on everyone.You can see how he changed Darth Vader from a Bad Ass Vilian to a Oh Poor Poor Anakin, he has so many problems.Things just don't go his way. Sigh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:




About Doom, well yes you can really pick on all of them in ways but there not just original, there done well. Especially when you think doom was a sequel in which almost all sequels back then were just horrible.It was a damn nice surprise to see the film go in a complete different direction. And to be original as well. So I am of two ways about Lucas, He's responsible for some real classics but has changed now and so has his movies.I would say that right to his face without fail. He would probably have a gang of Comic Con clone troopers chase after me. I would then call there mothers and they would be force to there room with no Star Wars Prequels for 2 days which would devistate them! :hat:
 

Phantom-Train

New member
DarthMickey:
We probably agree on much, except I just don't cross the line into believing George is as different today as you do. You're right in pointing out the Han/Greedo scene in the original. It does reveal a different sensibility and I wish he had left that as it was. However, I think Vader is not as sympathetic as you make out in the Prequels. His slaughtering of the Jedi children is about as brutal as anything he did in the original trilogy, no?

Here's a question that I think will reveal how fair-minded you are willing to be: If you see Clone Wars and actually like it, will you give Lucas any credit or will you say it's good because someone else directed it? Maybe the movie and TV series will be bad and I'll be the one changing my opinion, but if you like it, will you change yours? Every report ever done on Lucas reveals him to be very hands-on as a producer. KOTCS and the whole Darabont saga would indicate that he's stubborn about the stories he wants to tell--that they are his stories. So, I think it's fair to give him credit if Clone Wars is good. Here are blurbs from early reviews...


Associated Press:
?Clone Wars revives old-style Star Wars fun ... ?The animated adventure mostly harks back to the fun, swashbuckling times of the original Star Wars trilogy.

Empire Magazine:
"Lucas has oft said that while the fans have grown up, Star Wars never has, and in many ways The Clone Wars accomplishes exactly what he set out to do 30 years ago: take people out of themselves to a galaxy far, far away. It may not be what the (now older) fans are hoping for, but this is entirely in keeping with Lucas? original vision - whether you like it or not.?

SFX Magazine:
?Above all The Clone Wars is fun. Sure, a few gags fall flat, but this gets back to the adventure serial roots that first inspired George Lucas all those years ago. The kid in you will love it.?

CNBC:
"The animation is highly stylized, and eye-popping. You can't call this merely a cartoon. This is a whole new way of filmmaking. From Lucas once again. He's steeped in animation. ... Clone Wars is as much about a good story that fills in a lot of blanks as it is about the phenominal [sic] technology behind the scenes that gets the story told. Star Wars fans will not be disappointed."
 

DarthMickey

New member
Actually for those who like this kind of stuff , I hope the Clone Wars Cartoon is Good. It just not my thing. The story is just one I don't care for. As Far as the T.V. show goes I don't care for that Story line as well. (Time Period in the Star Wars Chapters)

I'm a Lucas fan but he makes different movies now and thinks through about every moment of film to make sure no one is offended. Spielberg is probably the same way now. You must understand to grow up with American Graffiti, Jaws, Star Wars, Empire strikes back, Raiders, it's allot to top. They have it in them but seem to be on a Object lesson crusade: Example Indy never fires Gun in Krystal Skull. He should have shot mack about 5 different times.Would have been funny as hell to boot.

As Far as ANAKIN killing the Jedi kiddies, it was really forced and unbelievable. To be honest it makes no sense.Lucas threw it in to say Oh he's bad now look what he's done.Before that he had done nothing but whack a few sand people.So Lucas had to throw it in. It's just really bad story telling. My main complaint is really the CGI insanity. Isn't it unbelievable that the Old Star Wars Movies have Models, Glass paintings , real props and hold up 1000 times better than CGI Shots.

It does make sense that people change, but in this case since he's responsible for so many classics it really sticks out. And hey this is just my opinion..and a few million others.:hat:
 

CasualJeff

New member
I think Revenge of the Sith is as violent and dark as anything Lucas has ever done. Not that violence and darkness makes a good movie, mind you...but I don't see how he was going out of his way to make sure "no one is offended" with that movie.

I think Phantom-Train is spot on, actually. Lucas does not make movies like he used to. KOTCS isn't as good as Raiders/Last Crusade, and the prequels overall weren't as good as ANH/ESB. But he still has a very unique way of telling stories which I love to see. I love the imagination in the prequel trilogy. I don't think there was a single boring planet/environment in the entire run, and it had some memorable characters. The clumsy dialogue/bad acting can be forgiven in my book for the overall picture.

I think it's weird that people on the internet have this "all or nothing" mentality. Either Lucas is the greatest writer/director/producer ever or he's garbage and ruins every single movie he's involved with. (That's why I see people downplaying his role in ANH/ESB--"oh, he had help there". And then turning around and blaming him 100% for the prequels.) The truth is somewhere in the middle. He has a lot of big, bold ideas. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. ESB was a tremendous risk--very different from ANH, and then you have the twist ending right out of a soap opera and a muppet for comic relief. It paid off. Making an Indy movie with aliens was also a big risk--obviously it didn't pay off for a lot of people here. Overall, I prefer his way of doing things. His movie sequels always seem to be memorable.
 

TheMutt92

New member
CasualJeff said:
I think Revenge of the Sith is as violent and dark as anything Lucas has ever done. Not that violence and darkness makes a good movie, mind you...but I don't see how he was going out of his way to make sure "no one is offended" with that movie.

I think Phantom-Train is spot on, actually. Lucas does not make movies like he used to. KOTCS isn't as good as Raiders/Last Crusade, and the prequels overall weren't as good as ANH/ESB. But he still has a very unique way of telling stories which I love to see. I love the imagination in the prequel trilogy. I don't think there was a single boring planet/environment in the entire run, and it had some memorable characters. The clumsy dialogue/bad acting can be forgiven in my book for the overall picture.

I think it's weird that people on the internet have this "all or nothing" mentality. Either Lucas is the greatest writer/director/producer ever or he's garbage and ruins every single movie he's involved with. (That's why I see people downplaying his role in ANH/ESB--"oh, he had help there". And then turning around and blaming him 100% for the prequels.) The truth is somewhere in the middle. He has a lot of big, bold ideas. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. ESB was a tremendous risk--very different from ANH, and then you have the twist ending right out of a soap opera and a muppet for comic relief. It paid off. Making an Indy movie with aliens was also a big risk--obviously it didn't pay off for a lot of people here. Overall, I prefer his way of doing things. His movie sequels always seem to be memorable.

You took the words right outta my mouth CasualJeff!
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
DarthMickey said:
I'll see Clone Wars right away!

So your 7 years old???? Just a Joke man.

Actually Lucas doesn't make Movies like he use to it was all of this was about.

Example: 1977-Star Wars-Han Blast Greedo with no questions ask.He's an alien bounty Hunter who cares!

see 1997 Star Wars- Lucas screws with Movie and has Greedo shoot first, for he has many object lessons to teach and a good guy character can never do a single thing wrong. Even if it was a Alien who about to kill him.

This single event bodes alarm in adults as to the Prequels and of course it all comes true in the worst way.

American Graffiti-Classic
Star Wars-Classic
Empire strikes Back-Classic
Raiders-Classic
TOD-Classic
Last Crusade-Classic

:dead: after 1990
Young Indiana Jones is certainly a classic.
And I think RotS & Indy4 are strong entries as well.
 

No Ticket

New member
About Boba Fett in the prequels...

Yeah I don't think Lucas EVER originally intended to put him in those stories. He did it because fans love it. You can look at this from the mean "Lucas wants to make more $$$" perspective or "Lucas was trying to give fans what he thought they wanted" ... which was Boba Fett.... Yoda fighting, etc.
 

AndyLGR

Active member
Ironic that 3 years after the OT final movie - ROTJ and the Star Wars franchise was dead.

Yet here we are 3 years after the PT final movie - ROTS and the franchise seems as alive as ever, but in a vein that the die-hards maybe aren't as keen on.
 

The Man

Well-known member
http://www.screenhead.com/reviews/star-wars-the-clone-wars-review/

Probably the most noticeable problem is the voice-acting. Director Dave Filoni must have studied toothpaste commercials when making this film. While Obi Wan?s voice matches Ewan McGregor?s droll performance, it?s Annakin?s voice that grates the most. Almost every sentence is enunciated with no semblance of realism, making Mark Hammil?s Luke sound like a Cassavetes film. Ahsoka?s lines are delivered which such whiney irritation that any attempt to present a likable character were flushed down the toilet.

The direction of the action is notably dull. Any expectations of originality or true thrills are kept on a tenuous thread until enough of the physical gags (usually based on the incompetence of enemy droids) deflate your sense of enjoyment. And, almost every scene is deeply derivative of a moment from the previous movies.


But what?s worse is that the genius of the original Star Wars trilogy was that it was an adventure that could inspire children and adults alike. As of late, it feels as if Lucas has lost sight of this. The Phantom Menace has blatant scenes and characters to appeal to the youngest age group possible, and it was often embarrassing to an adult audience. The Clone Wars is even worse, a series aimed solely for children, with appropriately unnatural kids-TV voice acting, deliberate marketing strategies (you almost feel as if the introduction of Ahsoka is a result of Lucas?s PR agents targeting a lagging demographic- teenage girls), and humour inaccessible to only the youngest age groups. The enjoyment of Star Wars really does feel like a long time ago.
 

The Man

Well-known member
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37881

Will I be watching the series? After an hour and a half of being bored to tears? Not on your life. That path leads only to fear and anger, and we all know that once you start down that path, there is no turning back. If you WANT this to be good rather than KNOWING it will be good, odds are you’re gonna be in the same boat as myself. This is no better than the Prequels. Scrub that hope out of your heart now.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. George Lucas: the poorest billionaire on Earth.
 
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