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Old 01-06-2009, 05:32 AM   #51
Darth Vile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
I paid to see the movie several times because it's an Indiana Jones movie, and I'm an Indiana Jones fan. That makes it a special movie for me.

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Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
So me expecting (what I would deem to be) an Indiana Jones movie out of an Indiana Jones movie is not only overhype, but the epitome of it? I also don't see why you assume I expected the movie to be "above" a predetermined mark in my mind. I would have been more than happy with it merely meeting it. How do you know how high or low my expectations were that you would call them the epitome of overhype?

And sure, I had expectations. Everyone has expectations going into a movie, no matter how big or small, no matter how deep-rooted or carefree. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. And people can have expectations without them being unreasonable, by the way, just like they can have expectations while still taking a film on its own merits. It's called viewing a movie objectively, or as objectively as a person can.


This general conversation is really interesting… as it touches upon something that I find fascinating on both a sociological and physiological level i.e. ‘interpretation’.

Playing the Devils Advocate on this one… Perception is everything. Movies (or indeed art) don’t exist in a vacuum. Interpretation can be influenced by the conditions one is exposed to during the viewing/performance - it helps form/solidify and re-affirms our opinions. Therefore, one could posit that conditions shape and determine aesthetic values just as much as ‘technical’ merit.

There are no rules for what really constitutes art, other that what is defined by society in general… and ‘art’ itself is merely a social construct. Therefore, mass interpretation is a good a way as any to define something’s merits i.e. if audience participation improves the aesthetic experience; it improves the piece of art. How good would the Mona Lisa be if everyone thought it were rubbish right?

Again playing the Devils Advocate… it seems like many an Indiana Jones fan; you have a strong emotional connection to the character and movies (just like me). Therefore, I’d suggest that we’re really the last people who can have a truly objective debate/view about the movies. That’s not to say our views are unimportant, uninteresting or uninformed, but that they are not emotionally detached from the subject matter (something true objectivity needs).

I can understand that my perception of Indiana Jones (and Star Wars for that matter) can be skewed (both in the positive and negative), because of that strong resonance that emotional connection creates. I strongly believe you to be the same (and that is not a criticism). Indeed, one could argue that we are strongly biased, whatever side of the fence we sit… which in turn leads to the sometimes passionate debates/arguments. This is ultimately not borne out of logic and objectivity, but rather emotion/attachment for the subject matter.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:20 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
This general conversation is really interesting… as it touches upon something that I find fascinating on both a sociological and physiological level i.e. ‘interpretation’.

Playing the Devils Advocate on this one… Perception is everything. Movies (or indeed art) don’t exist in a vacuum. Interpretation can be influenced by the conditions one is exposed to during the viewing/performance - it helps form/solidify and re-affirms our opinions. Therefore, one could posit that conditions shape and determine aesthetic values just as much as ‘technical’ merit.

There are no rules for what really constitutes art, other that what is defined by society in general… and ‘art’ itself is merely a social construct. Therefore, mass interpretation is a good a way as any to define something’s merits i.e. if audience participation improves the aesthetic experience; it improves the piece of art. How good would the Mona Lisa be if everyone thought it were rubbish right?

Again playing the Devils Advocate… it seems like many an Indiana Jones fan; you have a strong emotional connection to the character and movies (just like me). Therefore, I’d suggest that we’re really the last people who can have a truly objective debate/view about the movies. That’s not to say our views are unimportant, uninteresting or uninformed, but that they are not emotionally detached from the subject matter (something true objectivity needs).

I can understand that my perception of Indiana Jones (and Star Wars for that matter) can be skewed (both in the positive and negative), because of that strong resonance that emotional connection creates. I strongly believe you to be the same (and that is not a criticism). Indeed, one could argue that we are strongly biased, whatever side of the fence we sit… which in turn leads to the sometimes passionate debates/arguments. This is ultimately not borne out of logic and objectivity, but rather emotion/attachment for the subject matter.

On that same note, how can one be totally objective when it comes to art?

Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is that of the viewer. We can question, qualify, and quantify tastes, expectations, knowledge, and countless other factors all we want, but a film will hit each person in a way that is totally unique....just like any other experience in life.

Think about that. You and I may love the same film, but never totally in the same way....not down to the nth degree.

That is why art is so great. It touches each of us on a personal level, and even when we can step back and objectively see a film for being rather average or below average, there might still be factors in the film that hit a chord with us and make us love the film, in spite of the flaws we recognize from the get-go.

It's why one person can hate Independence Day (me), another person can love it, and still another person can like it and forget about it altogether while they drive home from the showing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
How good would the Mona Lisa be if everyone thought it were rubbish right?

That's a great question.

If I saw the Mona Lisa on my own, with no history or expectations, I could see myself liking it.

Going further, if I had heard about the Mona Lisa being rubbish from the get-go and I then saw it....would I be already be searching for the flaws over the positives?

I would like to think that I wouldn't. I know, ultimately, once one is away from the hype and influence of others, and alone with the art, that is when they can be most objective. I would appreciate the Mona Lisa in time, but initially, I am not sure if I would have been able to appreciate..or judge it fairly enough...with expectations already in place.

Last edited by Agent Z : 01-06-2009 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:43 AM   #53
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The theater I went to was packed, and while looking around for a seat, I noticed maybe one person wearing a fedora. However, when leaving I did notice a couple dressed up as Henry Sr. and Marion in the lobby (must have been waiting for Indy to come out of the bathroom).

During the movie, there was applause when the Paramount logo first came up, and also a smattering at the end credits. In between there were some laughs, and maybe even a couple of moans... but, in general, everyone seemed to be into the movie... or at least trying to be.

The reaction walking out of the theater though seemed a bit more mixed... there were a couple negative comments I overheard , which, actually felt reassuring, as it meant that I wasn't completely loosing my mind. Yes, I know, I tried to keep an open mind... I tried to keep my expectations low... but I was still disappointed... even embarrassed... as everyone who knew me knew how exited I was that there was a new Indiana Jones movie coming out, especially my poor wife who I drug to the midnight showing and had to endure listening to the Raiders march countless times over the past year or so... only to have to sit through this... but ironically, she actually really enjoyed it... go figure.

Last edited by Inbanana : 01-06-2009 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:30 PM   #54
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Wow...I can't believe how many of you reported no reaction what so ever. I thought just because I lived in NJ that people here are drips and don't respond to anything.

The 1st time I saw it nobody reacted to anything...I laughed at stuff but everyone was pretty silent except for an elderly gentleman that was hard of hearing that had to inform the entire row he was sitting with "HE DON'T LIKE SNAKES" when Mutt threw him the snake.

I left thinking to myself "was that a good movie?" I really don't think I was prepared for what I saw. I disputed and nit picked over many things until I saw it again...and again...

The 2nd time everyone was laughing at all the funny stuff and it was generally taken a little lighter.

The 3rd time about the same except I got a few people to applause at the very end when I stood and and said "ALRIGHT!" :: CLAP, CLAP, CLAP ::
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inbanana
everyone who knew me knew how exited I was that there was a new Indiana Jones movie coming out, especially my poor wife... only to have to sit through this... but ironically, she actually really enjoyed it... go figure.

I hear you on that. My missus liked it a lot more than I did. But then again, her favorite movie is "Bring It On".
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Agent Z
So, going in, the film already has to be an above average action adventure movie...because it's not an "average" franchise..and it's not made by "average" talent?

For me to not be disappointed? Correct. Obviously, my version of what above average is can easily be different from yours. Maybe you thought, for example, that Temple of Doom and Last Crusade were not above average action adventure movies. The only thing that's really important is that whatever my standards for an Indiana Jones movie is, Indy4 didn't meet them.

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And that's just to "meet" your expectations. We haven't even gotten to surpassing them...

Who's to say they needed to be surpassed? You?

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Originally Posted by Agent Z
You are, in effect, branding the film because it's an "Indiana Jones film". You are putting the franchise and its makers on a level above the average action adventure movie.

Absolutely, I don't deny that. Indiana Jones movies have/had a deserved reputation for being the cream of the crop of adventure movies. If you consider the other Indiana Jones movies to be average or less, then obviously it's a lot easier for Indy4 to meet your standards for the franchise. The real "branding" of the movie as an Indiana Jones movie is done by the film makers, not by me. As a member of the audience, I'm simply determining whether or not I feel it's of the same level as its predecessors.

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Originally Posted by Agent Z
Hey, fine by me, but it's still hype. We can bounce back and forth between the shades of gray between "semihype", "hype", "overhype" and "ludicroushype" on another day....

The point was you were clearly defining my "hype" for the move using only the most excessive terms, despite the fact that you don't and can't know such a thing. Despite what you say about shades of grey, there is a reason that instead of using "hype" you used terms like "overhype" and "epitome." Calling my wife "beautiful" as opposed to "not unattractive" will yield two very different results, I assure you.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:36 AM   #57
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I don't remember an energetic vibe as we exited. I was left wondering "what was that?!" My mate asked me what i thought,...i just looked at him and said ..."That was bad". I couldn't believe those words were coming out of my mouth after having just seen an Indy movie, it was a phantom menace moment.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #58
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Most of the showings I went to here in Nashville were very enthusiastic and fun. A couple of the showings were full and people were laughing and gasping at certain parts and there was even some applause at the end. I had a blast and I was glad to see people of all ages enjoying themselves, which is what Indy is all about.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:52 PM   #59
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They clapped through out and at the end, It was my entire school viewing it.

Being known as the Indy fan at my school, people kept coming up to me and saying "That was an awesome as movie!" or something along those lines.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:43 PM   #60
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I seen KotCS 4 times in theaters and the responses were all very similar. People seemed to enjoy themselves. They clapped and laughed at all the same parts. Everyone seemed to really get a kick out of the motorcycle chase when Indy climbs out of the Russian's window and onto Mutt's bike. There were always gasps when Marion tells Indy that Mutt's his son. When the film was over, I'd stand in the lobby listening to peoples reactions. What I heard most of the time was "Why Aliens?". But other then that everyone seemed to like it.

I will say this though, out of all the summer blockbusters like Dark Knight, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, and Hellboy II no crowd seemed to enjoy themselves more then watching Indy 4. Everyone seemed to have a smile on before and after the film. Whether they were laughing because they had a great time or how bad the film was is beyond me
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:49 PM   #61
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I went to a midnight showing, full of adults and teens, all of whom were clearly Indy fans. I was in costume, as were several others.

There was definitely an atmosphere of excitement, and when the lights went from "semi-dim," as they are during the previews, to "totally dark," there were several cheers and hollers.

The other biggest cheering moments were when Indy's silhouette put the hat on, when Marion was brought out of the tent, and when Indy snatched the hat out of Mutt's hand at the end. There was also a good amount of laughter at the appropriate moments.

I honestly can't remember if the audience clapped at the end, but people were generally happy with the movie, based on the comments I heard. For myself, my reaction then (as now) was "Not as good as the others, but a pretty good movie."
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bones
I guess there you have it...fanboys and people with whatever expectations were dissapointed but those with an open mind, such as that of a child, simply going to be entertained rather than act as film critics, enjoyed it.

The problem is that we all had expectations going in to KOTCS, simply by virtue of the fact that we had all seen the first three. Thus, we all have our own ideas about what an Indiana Jones film should be. And anyone who goes to a fim will have an opinion on whether they liked it or not, so every viewer is a "film critic" in one sense or another.

That being said, I agree with you that it was easiest for children to enjoy the film, because they have no emotional history with Indiana Jones. They didn't "grow up" with the films the way many of us did, so these preconceived notions of what an Indy film should be are simply not present. When I was a child, I watched ROTLA so many times, the VHS tape wore out. Many kids today have seen the older films once or twice, if at all.

Another reason kids liked this film more than adults is that it is the most "kid-friendly" of all Indy films. On my second viewing of KOTCS, I took my fiancee's two younger brothers (both still in grade school). They absolutely loved the Mutt/Tarzan vine swinging scene. They ate it up because they are young, and that kind of thing is funny to kids. I thought it was one of the lower points of the film, but that's probably because I'm 25, and I grew up on Indy films where Mongolians got shot in the face and people got their hearts ripped out.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:35 AM   #63
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During the midnight showing everyone clapped, then the guy next to me said I was waiting for Will Smith to come out and punch the alien and say "welcome to earth!"
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:51 PM   #64
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The showing that I attended on May 22, the audience sort of drifted out, despondently. I got the feeling that they wanted to stay longer in the hope that the real movie would come on before they left the theatre.
Strange. Very strange few moments, indeed. Dreamlike. Had Indy 4 left an audience cold? I think it may well have done.


Nineteen years. Nineteen years.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:44 AM   #65
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In most theatres throughout West Yorks nobody seems to react at all.

They all seem to shuffle out of the movies like it's a funeral whilst mumbling about what was good/bad LOL
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:51 PM   #66
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I went twice. Both times the audience laughed and seemed very happy to have seen it. The ending of the film is very strange, no matter what series it was part of, and probably robbed a lot of the excitement.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:54 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Grizzlor
I went twice. Both times the audience laughed and seemed very happy to have seen it. The ending of the film is very strange, no matter what series it was part of, and probably robbed a lot of the excitement.

The only thing I find strange is the marriage. That's the only thing about the ending I don't care for.

Indy should be single!

lol
I'm over it now.

The UFO rules though.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:51 PM   #68
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Lets see if I can remember...

Kids screamed at the ants and someone shivered at it. Some kid started ot crew at the alien scene.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:02 PM   #69
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The theater was VERY empty that day. I don't know if it was because it was a little after noon or if Indy isn't even popular here, but yeah, it was pretty much empty save for my friends and a couple. Nobody reacted.
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:04 PM   #70
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I went to the midnight showing, to which I got the tickets in advance. It was sold out and packed. Several people wore hats and Indy t-shirts, which really warmed my heart. I yakked it up with a few dressed-up fans before the show. People got into it right away and yelled and laughed at the right moments. When it was over and the credits rolled, I noticed only about 25% of the crowd clapped and everyone was in a hurry to get outta there. People were quiet. You could feel the major disappointment tinged with embarrassment in the room. It was sad, really. I went home and hung my head for the next month. Heck, it's still hanging a little...sigh.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:13 PM   #71
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Experiences you had While Watching Indiana Jones 4 at the Theater

I was just wondering if any of you had any experiences(good,bad,or neither)at the theater while watching Indy 4? Personally,I had one.It happened during the sand pit scene and my family and I were sitting near the middle back of the theater and there was this guy,maybe in his 40s sitting toward our front right,and when Marion said,"He's your son",the guy yelled,"I knew it",like as if he thought he was the only one who suspected it.


Just putting this out there,but according to my ticket I saw Indy 4 on May 28,2008 at 4:00 P.M. and the ticket was $6.75(now a tickets are $7.00).
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #72
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I was just wondering if any of you had any experiences(good,bad,or neither)at the theater while watching Indy 4? Personally,I had one.It happened during the sand pit scene and my family and I were sitting near the middle back of the theater and there was this guy,maybe in his 40s sitting toward our front right,and when Marion said,"He's your son",the guy yelled,"I knew it",like as if he thought he was the only one who suspected it.


Just putting this out there,but according to my ticket I saw Indy 4 on May 28,2008 at 4:00 P.M. and the ticket was $6.75(now a tickets are $7.00).
That's a funny story! I had a great experience seeing KOTCS opening day. I was surprised by the various ages amoung the audience, from young to old. Everyone laughed at the right times and many clapped at the end!
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:43 PM   #73
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Midnight Showing

The Theater was packed, and when the old Paramount logo went on the screen everyone cheered. Same during the opening credits when Karen Allen and Harrison Ford's names went on. Some even booed when it said 'Shia LaBeouf'

Anyway, the crowd loved it, but everyone laughed at the nuked fridge (not in a good way). I did hear a few people say 'Aliens? Come on.' or 'THAT was disappointing.'

For the most part everyone loved it. It was a blast.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:07 AM   #74
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At the opening showing I attended, I saw someone in the lobby dressed in full Indy regalia; it was pretty neat. I jokingly asked him what movie he was there to see, hoping and expecting some humorous response, but he simply said "Indiana Jones," apparently thinking I really didn't guess immediately, which made me wonder whether he thought I was a complete doofus for asking. There was also a woman in... 'quasi-Indy-esque' garb, not exactly replicating "The Gear" but sporting a fedora and a bunch of generally "adventurous"-looking clothing.

The movie itself garnered an appreciative response from an audience that clearly enjoyed it, though it didn't react with anything near the wild appreciation I recall experiencing with the original Raiders the first time, all those years ago. It was quite fun all the same, though I found myself wondering how people I knew would react to things like the fridge and all. The biggest and most delightful surprise in the movie (at least for me) was the wedding; for whatever reason I didn't see it coming at all, even though in retrospect it seems like such an obvious thing to expect, and I was thrilled. I heard other people express their delight at this closing moment as well.

The second time I saw it, also on opening day but in a completely different theater and city, the theater's sound was annoyingly muffled-sounding. I was particularly disappointed because I was seeing it with friends who were seeing it for the first time ever, and I wanted them to experience it under better conditions.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:35 AM   #75
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The biggest and most delightful surprise in the movie (at least for me) was the wedding; for whatever reason I didn't see it coming at all, even though in retrospect it seems like such an obvious thing to expect

This was the one thing that really caught me offguard too, even though- as you say- it should've been entirely obvious.
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