Why I love all four films equally

avidfilmbuff

New member
For some, Raiders of the Lost Ark is the only masterpiece in the series. For others, one of the sequels outshines the other films. But for me the entire series as a whole is a single masterpiece, and I wish to explain why I feel that way.

The core of the Indiana Jones series is that it is nothing more than a fantastic tribute and homage to all the many different forms of escapist entertainments of the past. It would be difficult to make an entire series based on this premise without it becoming tired by the third or even second film, but Steven Spielberg and George Lucas have avoided this by giving each film its own tone and specific homages.

First, you have Raiders of the Lost Ark, which is the Saturday Matinee serial. Most have pointed out that this one is the grittiest of the four and this is mostly due to its low budget nature, as many saturday matinee serials were, which results in a considerable lack of special effects(the climax being the exception). Indy is the typical Saturday matinee hero and the nazis are the typcial villains found in such type of films. The film is filled with miniature cliffhangers and, as proven by one internet user, the film could be seperated into different chapters based on these cliffhangers. The final action sequence of the film is perfect Saturday matinee material, even with the scene of Indy jumping onto the truck being directly lifted from a Zorro serial.

We then have the second Temple of Doom, while it does still have many overtones to the Saturday matinee serial, the film owes much more, I think, to violent pulp fiction. When it comes to the amount of violence, Temple of Doom is equal to Raiders. The type of violence, however, is completely different, while the violence in Raiders was far more gritty and realistic, the violence in Temple is far more fantastic and outrageous, with people having their hearts ripped out, gangsters being impaled with shish kebobs, fingers of sacrifice victims found on statues of Kali, and so on. This shocked many people back in 1984, but it prevented Temple from being a simple rehash of Raiders.

Then we have The Last Crusade, which has a dramatically different tone from the other two films; with a slower pace, less action, and a stronger emphasis on story, feeling more like any one of the big budget adventure films produced by Warner Brothers or Paramount rather than Republic Pictures. There are even times when the film even seems like a Hollywood epic, this can even be felt in John William's soundtrack, as the first two soundtracks were more action oriented and fast paced, Last Crusade's is far more calmer and majestic. The stronger emphasis on story can be felt as obtaining the grail serves as a sort of symbol for the relationship between Indy and his father.

And lastly, there is the most controversial film, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, taking an even more dramatic turn than Crusade, as this film pays tribute to 1950 b films. Just look at the opening where Soviet soldiers and agents infiltrate a secret American base hidden in the desert, common fears that were presented light heartedly in many escapist films of the time. You can see the influence the James Bond series had on the film with the Rosa Klebbs-esque villian played by Cate Blanchett. The Cold War plays a strong part in the film, escpecially with the camp scene where Spalko talks of taking over the minds of the west. The character of Mac is a symbol of the lack of trust present in the time of Mccarthyism. And of course, there is the macguffin, which is extreterristrial rather than of this Earth.

I could go on about each of the films, but I don't wish to make this post too long. So to make my point, why do I love each film equally? Because the series succeeds in its attempt to pay tribute to escapism, while managing to keep each film fresh by having each of them pay tribute to different forms of escapism. In a sense, the Indiana Jones series is a reenactment of the different forms of escapism, with each film representing a different era. I can only hope that Spielberg and Lucas will continue with this tradition in Indy 5.
 
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James

Well-known member
I do think the series' true legacy will be the way it skillfully weaves together so many different B movie styles and genres.

Even LC, often criticized as a simple rehash of ROTLA, feels like its own unique entry. The European settings and increased focus on the relationships of the characters allow it to bring something new to the franchise.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
avidfilmbuff said:
For some, Raiders of the Lost Ark is the only masterpiece in the series. For others, one of the sequels outshines the other films. But for me the entire series as a whole is a single masterpiece, and I wish to explain why I feel that way.

The core of the Indiana Jones series is that it is nothing more than a fantastic tribute and homage to all the many different forms of escapist entertainments of the past. It would be difficult to make an entire series based on this premise without it becoming tired by the third or even second film, but Steven Spielberg and George Lucas have avoided this by giving each film its own tone and specific homages.

First, you have Raiders of the Lost Ark, which is the Saturday Matinee serial. Most have pointed out that this one is the grittiest of the four and this is mostly due to its low budget nature, as many saturday matinee serials were, which results in a considerable lack of special effects(the climax being the exception). Indy is the typical Saturday matinee hero and the nazis are the typcial villains found in such type of films. The film is filled with miniature cliffhangers and, as proven by one internet user, the film could be seperated into different chapters based on these cliffhangers. The final action sequence of the film is perfect Saturday matinee material, even with the scene of Indy jumping onto the truck being directly lifted from a Zorro serial.

We then have the second Temple of Doom, while it does still have many overtones to the Saturday matinee serial, the film owes much more, I think, to violent pulp fiction. When it comes to the amount of violence, Temple of Doom is equal to Raiders. The type of violence, however, is completely different, while the violence in Raiders was far more gritty and realistic, the violence in Temple is far more fantastic and outrageous, with people having their hearts ripped out, gangsters being impaled with shish kebobs, fingers of sacrifice victims found on statues of Kali, and so on. This shocked many people back in 1984, but it prevented Temple from being a simple rehash of Raiders.

Then we have The Last Crusade, which has a dramatically different tone from the other two films; with a slower pace, less action, and a stronger emphasis on story, feeling more like any one of the big budget adventure films produced by Warner Brothers or Paramount rather than Republic Pictures. There are even times when the film even seems like a Hollywood epic, this can even be felt in John William's soundtrack, as the first two soundtracks were more action oriented and fast paced, Last Crusade's is far more calmer and majestic. The stronger emphasis on story can be felt as obtaining the grail serves as a sort of symbol for the relationship between Indy and his father.

And lastly, there is the most controversial film, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, taking an even more dramatic turn than Crusade, as this film pays tribute to 1950 b films. Just look at the opening where Soviet soldiers and agents infiltrate a secret American base hidden in the desert, common fears that were presented light heartedly in many escapist films of the time. You can see the influence the James Bond series had on the film with the Rosa Klebbs-esque villian played by Cate Blanchett. The Cold War plays a strong part in the film, escpecially with the camp scene where Spalko talks of taking over the minds of the west. The character of Mac is a symbol of the lack of trust present in the time of Mccarthyism. And of course, there is the macguffin, which is extreterristrial rather than of this Earth.

I could go on about each of the films, but I don't wish to make this post too long. So to make my point, why do I love each film equally? Because the series succeeds in its attempt to pay tribute to escapism, while managing to keep each film fresh by having each of them pay tribute to different forms of escapism. In a sense, the Indiana Jones series is a reenactment of the different forms of escapism, with each film representing a different era. I can only hope that Spielberg and Lucas will continue with this tradition in Indy 5.


These movies are kind of like your children, each one different and each one wonderful in its own right. Like my kids, I love them all.
 

Dewy9

New member
Jack Nelligan said:
These movies are kind of like your children, each one different and each one wonderful in its own right. Like my kids, I love them all.

And the Indy EU stuff are like my long lost cousins, I've heard of them, but know nothing about them. ;)
 

Dr Bones

New member
Ok, going a little of track here but humour me...

You love them all....but equally? I personally doubt there is such a thing.

I believe equality in anything subjective (i.e other than mathematically) is a myth...same as perfection, or absolute. It's one of those words that exists only as word, concept or as a mathematic principle, eg 2 % equally by 2 = 1. But now some scientists argue that even mathematics is not absolute....:confused:

You might love them all, and for different reaosns and find it hard to choose, but not impossible.

I don't think you can compare films to your children...:rolleyes:

Someone put a gun to your head and said choose a film...you'd choose.
:gun: :confused:
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
Dr Bones said:
Ok, going a little of track here but humour me...

You love them all....but equally? I personally doubt there is such a thing.

I believe equality in anything subjective (i.e other than mathematically) is a myth...same as perfection, or absolute. It's one of those words that exists only as word, concept or as a mathematic principle, eg 2 % equally by 2 = 1. But now some scientists argue that even mathematics is not absolute....:confused:

You might love them all, and for different reaosns and find it hard to choose, but not impossible.

I don't think you can compare films to your children...:rolleyes:

Someone put a gun to your head and said choose a film...you'd choose.
:gun: :confused:

Well of course I would choose, but I would be lying. The thing is, whenever someone asks me what is my favorite Spielberg film, I always the Indiana Jones series rather than an individual film. And you're right, perfection doesn't really exist because it's all dependent on the viewpoint, and I personally view the series as a single entity seperated into four different chapters.
 
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Dayne

New member
avidfilmbuff said:
Well of course I would choose, but I would be lying. The thing is, whenever someone asks me what is my favorite Spielberg film, I always the Indiana Jones series rather than an individual film. And you're right, perfection doesn't really exist because it's all dependent on the viewpoint, and I personally view the series as a single entity seperated into four different chapters.

Let's make this quantifiable: Which film do you watch most on a regular basis?
 

Darth Vile

New member
I think it's perfectly reasonable to like all the movies equally. After all the proportion of enjoyment for something is entirely subjective. My favourite movie is Raiders, but I'd say it's the movie I watch the least (not including TOD) simply because I saw it the most (bordering on overdose) as a kid. I know every snippet of dialogue, every musical cue... and I can even imitate the foley to perfection (not that I'd do that as an adult). ;)
So like Star Wars: ANH, Raiders is the one I'm most familiar with... and dare I say it, most bored with (this however doesn't lessen my love of the movie).

For these reasons, I tend to watch TLC and KOTCS a little more often (as they are not as burned onto my retinas as much as Raiders is). Therefore, the enjoyment/pleasure derived is not constant, but forever changing. So I think it's reasonable, and entirely understandable, to enjoy what could be deemed as an "inferior" movie equally (or more in some cases) with a "better" one.
 

DocWhiskey

Well-known member
Jack Nelligan said:
These movies are kind of like your children, each one different and each one wonderful in its own right. Like my kids, I love them all.

Agreed.


But KOTCS is the one that you hit when you get really drunk.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
I'm wincing a bit with that last comment, Doc, but it was funny. I'd just describe it as the embarrassing guest at a dinner party, one that you can't apprehend without being too obvious about it.
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
I just want to make one thing clear to some people. I don't think of the Indiana Jones series as four individual films, I think of it as a single masterpiece. For you see, the vast majority of films usually only make a sequel to either cash in on the first one or to continue the story in some way. This series on the other hand, produces each film as another different homage and tribute to a different form of past escapist entertainment. So to sum it up, the series as a whole is an homage to past escapist entertainments, while each film seperately is a specific homage to different eras, this is why I think of the series as a whole rather than four different films.
 

indyclone25

Well-known member
well i have seen each of the movies so many time s i can't remember the exact count ( not including kotcs, just cause it came out last year but i have to say i have watched that about 50 times ) but i too know the every scene music and soundeffects for each movie . :D just like up above its like star wars i love those films there are other films i like too that i don't remember every piece of it by heart. just the rush of seeing the action listening to the rousing score by john williams just makes it a great time whenever you pop in the dvd or vhs or whatever . that is why i love the movies so much ---plus it brings alot of folks together.
 

inuvuwow

New member
This is an odd question, but it does have a very simple answer for me. RAIDERS is my favorite. TEMPLE OF DOOM is the one I can watch over and over again. LAST CRUSADE has the most special place in my heart because my Dad took me to see it when it came out and it was a father/son movie to begin with.
And KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL is the movie that allowed me the chance to meet Harrison Ford.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Dr Bones said:
Ok, going a little of track here but humour me...

You love them all....but equally? I personally doubt there is such a thing.

I believe equality in anything subjective (i.e other than mathematically) is a myth...same as perfection, or absolute. It's one of those words that exists only as word, concept or as a mathematic principle, eg 2 % equally by 2 = 1. But now some scientists argue that even mathematics is not absolute....:confused:

You might love them all, and for different reaosns and find it hard to choose, but not impossible.

I don't think you can compare films to your children...:rolleyes:

Someone put a gun to your head and said choose a film...you'd choose.
:gun: :confused:


I was speaking metaphorically of course! However, your theory on equal love is incorrect. I doubt you have children, because if you did you would understand that you can love them equally. They all have their special talents and problems, but love them you do, and not one more that the other.

If a gun were to my head and I had to choose my favorite movie, my answer would depend on when this happened. I have been watching these films again with my boys and right now, my favorite is TOD, because they love it. 5 years ago I would have said Raiders, a year ago I would have said KOTCS and 15 years ago I would have said LC. It all about timing! :whip:
 

Dr Bones

New member
DocWhiskey said:
Agreed.


But KOTCS is the one that you hit when you get really drunk.

LOL! Post of the month,

Jack Nelligan said:
I was speaking metaphorically of course! However, your theory on equal love is incorrect. I doubt you have children, because if you did you would understand that you can love them equally. They all have their special talents and problems, but love them you do, and not one more that the other.

More or less is not the same as different or equal in and abstract concept of love....unless you can mathematically work out the sum of love.

As your chilrdren are all unique, with different talents and personalities etc your love for each of them is unique as you love different things about them...therefore can it be equal in the truest sense of the word?


To say you love something equally to me implies your love is finite (as with the films). I would say I love each of my children infinitely as I'm sure you would.


Choose between your children.....impossible you'd say....but people do make impossible choices.

Now in the example of Nazi occuppied Europe, where mothers were forced to choose which of their children stayed with them and which went to the camps (certain death). How did they choose? What was the criteria? I'm sure most mother's didn't just leave it to chance or a coin flip. No, they chose, based on things like chances of survival, health..and simple favouritism. Sure they'd say they loved their chidlren equally...but no matter how you tilt it, they made a choice and in doing so, for whatever reason, "equality" evaporates. I'm certainly not saying they loved one child less and it makes for uncomfortable conversation...but still, how and where was equality?

A lot of times people say "I love you equally" and even believe it to ease their own conscience or spare the feelings of others...but tell me, has one child or you yourself as a sibling ever had special treatment over another, for whatever reason? This is ringing in my ears today after a converation with my grandmother about my birth, the subsequent family feud my mere existence caused, then the years of less then special treatement. I could go to those concerned and ask, "Did you love me as much as X?" I know what they'd say, and know it was a lie.

I admire your sentiment and I'm sure your love as a parent is infinite for each child and one does not hold more affection in your heart.
 

Dayne

New member
avidfilmbuff said:
I don't think of the Indiana Jones series as four individual films, I think of it as a single masterpiece. ... this is why I think of the series as a whole rather than four different films.

When I read a book, I enjoy some chapters more than others. When I listen to a music record, I like some songs better than others. I could say the same with a single film; some scenes and sequences just work better than others. Now I may say I love a certain book, record or movie and say it's great as a whole, but there are always bits and pieces that I love more than others. And you may view very moment of every Indy movie as being perfect or great, but there has to be some scenes, some moments that you simply do love more than other scenes or moments throughout the series, even if they are perfect.

I don't mean to harp on you about this and am sorry if I'm coming across as agrumentative. I actually share the same view as you, as I look at the series as a whole as well and love them all for the exact same reasons as yourself. But even so I cannot help but sometimes liking one more than the other.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Dayne said:
When I read a book, I enjoy some chapters more than others. When I listen to a music record, I like some songs better than others. I could say the same with a single film; some scenes and sequences just work better than others. Now I may say I love a certain book, record or movie and say it's great as a whole, but there are always bits and pieces that I love more than others. And you may view very moment of every Indy movie as being perfect or great, but there has to be some scenes, some moments that you simply do love more than other scenes or moments throughout the series, even if they are perfect.

I don't mean to harp on you about this and am sorry if I'm coming across as agrumentative. I actually share the same view as you, as I look at the series as a whole as well and love them all for the exact same reasons as yourself. But even so I cannot help but sometimes liking one more than the other.

I'm not sure what the big deal is here. Enjoying or having preference for one thing over another is not so absolute. Using your music album example... My favourite band is The Beatles, and there are several Beatles albums that, without a doubt, I'd say I love equally. Be that Help!, Rubber Soul, Revolver, The White Album or Abbey Road. Sure, I may have a favourite one of the moment, but that invariably changes with mood and circumstance. I would find it impossible to choose a single Beatles album to take to a desert island... and I'd probably resort to closing my eyes and picking one at random.

So when avidfilmbuff states he loves all the movies equally, I may not share the same view... but I totally understand where he is coming from.
 

Jack Nelligan

New member
Dr Bones said:
LOL! Post of the month,



More or less is not the same as different or equal in and abstract concept of love....unless you can mathematically work out the sum of love.

As your chilrdren are all unique, with different talents and personalities etc your love for each of them is unique as you love different things about them...therefore can it be equal in the truest sense of the word?


To say you love something equally to me implies your love is finite (as with the films). I would say I love each of my children infinitely as I'm sure you would.


Choose between your children.....impossible you'd say....but people do make impossible choices.

Now in the example of Nazi occuppied Europe, where mothers were forced to choose which of their children stayed with them and which went to the camps (certain death). How did they choose? What was the criteria? I'm sure most mother's didn't just leave it to chance or a coin flip. No, they chose, based on things like chances of survival, health..and simple favouritism. Sure they'd say they loved their chidlren equally...but no matter how you tilt it, they made a choice and in doing so, for whatever reason, "equality" evaporates. I'm certainly not saying they loved one child less and it makes for uncomfortable conversation...but still, how and where was equality?

A lot of times people say "I love you equally" and even believe it to ease their own conscience or spare the feelings of others...but tell me, has one child or you yourself as a sibling ever had special treatment over another, for whatever reason? This is ringing in my ears today after a converation with my grandmother about my birth, the subsequent family feud my mere existence caused, then the years of less then special treatement. I could go to those concerned and ask, "Did you love me as much as X?" I know what they'd say, and know it was a lie.

I admire your sentiment and I'm sure your love as a parent is infinite for each child and one does not hold more affection in your heart.




I agree! My love for both my kids is infinite! I can?t imagine having to choose like those parents in Nazi Germany.
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
Dayne said:
When I read a book, I enjoy some chapters more than others. When I listen to a music record, I like some songs better than others. I could say the same with a single film; some scenes and sequences just work better than others. Now I may say I love a certain book, record or movie and say it's great as a whole, but there are always bits and pieces that I love more than others. And you may view very moment of every Indy movie as being perfect or great, but there has to be some scenes, some moments that you simply do love more than other scenes or moments throughout the series, even if they are perfect.

I don't mean to harp on you about this and am sorry if I'm coming across as agrumentative. I actually share the same view as you, as I look at the series as a whole as well and love them all for the exact same reasons as yourself. But even so I cannot help but sometimes liking one more than the other.

Oh don't worry about it, I don't mind a good discussion, I'm glad to hear you agree with my analysis of the series. And I do agree with you there are certain things about the Indy series that I enjoy better than something else within the series. For example, Last Crusade has my favorite soundtrack, Raiders has my favorite climax, and so on. But the way I view the series, it really is difficult for me to say which film is my favorite, I have tried in the past, but I kept changing my mind, and I've never had that problem with any other film series. Perhaps I shouldn't have titled the thread "why I love all four films equally," "why I think of the series as a whole" would have been more appropriate. Because I didn't intend to say that every single second of the series is equal to every other single second.
 
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