Prairie dogs - who's to blame? A great mystery - solved.

Crusade>Raiders

New member
It was kinda a prediction of what to expect.

Original trilogy = giant foundations(or at least a picture of one in the film, in a film thats not as good as the ones with actual mountains)

Kingdom = mound of dirt
 

Benraianajones

New member
Major West said:
And are you forgetting that moment is followed by Marcus doing a bit of comedy business.

No, he grimaced at a head being cut off - it can be viewed as amusing or not. Also we still got a lenghty amount of tense-action, Indy's dad got shot in the chest, Indy faces the ripsaw blades we've previously seen cut off heads - no initial comedy relief follows that part at all. The pararie dogs just didnt really break up any tension, especially not the one after the opening logo fade. A better use of comic relief following tension is when Indy smashed mac in the nose after having been made to stare in to the skulls eyes.
 
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Darth Vile

New member
Benraianajones said:
No, he grimaced at a head being cut off - it can be viewed as amusing or not. Also we still got a lenghty amount of tense-action, Indy's dad got shot in the chest, Indy faces the ripsaw blades we've previously seen cut off heads - no initial comedy relief follows that part at all. The pararie dogs just didnt really break up any tension, especially not the one after the opening logo fade. A better use of comic relief following tension is when Indy smashed mac in the nose after having been made to stare in to the skulls eyes.

I think there are 2 moments of discernable creepiness in TLC. 1) The Venice Catacombs. 2) The Grail challenges (As you rightly mention).

KOTCS also has 2 moments of discernable creepiness i.e. cemetery /Orellana?s tomb and inside Akator.

For me? they are much of a muchness, but I?d argue than inside Orellan?s tomb could be seen as quintessentially more ?Indiana Jones?ish?.
 

nitzsche

New member
There are so many things about the Venice tomb sequence that bother me.

The styrofoam rocks Indy smacks his head into after finding the second 'X' marks the spot.

The petroleum that only lights by match and not by Elsa's lighter or the torch and the fact that Indy doesn't go up in flames when he lights the torch - the torch dripping flaming oil all the way into the tomb.

The rubbing Indy makes of the shield is totally undamaged after he swims through the "way out" (a sewer system?) that we never actually see.

The Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword somehow realizing Indy did find a way out through an unseen sewer system and rushing out of the library to go after him.

Then the fact that Indy was in a suit. No hat. No adventure gear. No iconic style at all.

It falls pretty flat compared to Raiders, Temple and now Skull as far as the dark, creepy tomb raiding scenes go.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
For me… they are much of a muchness, but I’d argue than inside Orellan’s tomb could be seen as quintessentially more “Indiana Jones’ish”.

Maye in a cliched kind of way, but it never really hits any notes. I'm definitely one of the people who considered TLC far too light, but there are still decapitating heads and people getting shot, which were necessary images to give the Three Trials a sense of danger and urgency for Indy. Crystal Skull had way, way more opportunity to get dark and violent than TLC did, and it very consciously chose not to take them. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual viewer, but I know where I sit.

I think I'm more willing to give a pass on TLC because its tone is a lot more consistent, even if it wasn't one I was particularly escatic about. Crystal Skull never seemed to figure out what it wanted to be, so it just cued up the spirit of Raiders, Temple of Doom, and Last Crusade whenever it felt like it like albums in a juke box, so the movie ends up feeling like a lot of "best of" moments rather than scenes that necessarily belong to the same movie. That's why I say a lot of the movie's scenes have a self-contained feel.
 

Benraianajones

New member
Udvarnoky said:
Crystal Skull had way, way more opportunity to get dark and violent than TLC did, and it very consciously chose not to take them. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual viewer, but I know where I sit.

Yes, and as much as I do enjoy KOTCS (looking forward for my DVD arriving) , the only thing that bothers me is despite the dark and eerie angle thate aliens/psychic powers can have, they never really gave them a creepy factor. Staring in to the skull was creepy, but they never followed it up really, which I thought was a shame. I understand why they didn't do this path, but I wish they had, and had they made it a bit darker (it wouldn't need to dominate the movie). As it stands, the crystal skull kind of loses it's meaning in the movie, and becomes more of an item to knock people out during the jungle chase, and getting tossed around like a ball. But I think the reveal at the end, or at least Spalko's death could have been more menacing/violent, kind of along the lines of the ark's opening/donovan's aging. Though I do love the scene when the streams of knowledge are being shot in to Irina's eyes as the camera rotates around the room - it really seemed like a good set up, but then the finale of her death ended too quick.

And to remain on topic, I just don't think the prarie dogs, as little as they bother me, which is none, really broke us away from any tense feeling. Seeing Indy and Dovenchiko on the sleigh with their mouths wide open from the force of the speed was amusing enough.
 
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Major West

Member
Benraianajones said:
No, he grimaced at a head being cut off - it can be viewed as amusing or not. Also we still got a lenghty amount of tense-action, Indy's dad got shot in the chest, Indy faces the ripsaw blades we've previously seen cut off heads - no initial comedy relief follows that part at all. The pararie dogs just didnt really break up any tension, especially not the one after the opening logo fade. A better use of comic relief following tension is when Indy smashed mac in the nose after having been made to stare in to the skulls eyes.

You don't know the films very well at all. I mean the moment he has a gun stuck in his face and becomes fixed on it.
 

Benraianajones

New member
Major West said:
You don't know the films very well at all. I mean the moment he has a gun stuck in his face and becomes fixed on it.

I do know them well - even if I didn't know that (which I did) - it doesn't mean I don't know all 4 films well - don't talk daft. Marcus pulls a sickened face when he sees the head roll off near him he turns to the side and sees the gun - then a gun points to his face and he stares at it - again, you can view it as amusing, or not. To top it off - he has a gun in his face so it isn't all out OTT comedy action, there is still some tension despite Marcus' reaction which can be smirked at. It doesn't dissaprove my point I also mentioned anyway, as the entire portion following is suspense with no jokes involved.
 
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Major West

Member
No, the way he reacts to the gun diffuses the moment of tension, it's just a few seconds later. Stop trying to riggle out of the fact you'd forgotten about it.
 

Benraianajones

New member
Major West said:
No, the way he reacts to the gun diffuses the moment of tension, it's just a few seconds later. Stop trying to riggle out of the fact you'd forgotten about it.

I'm glad you're a mind reader. I simply omitted it from my post as I didn't especially consider his reaction an amusing one, I still consider it a rather tense moment since he hasa gun stuck in his face, even if his reaction can cause smirks.
 

Major West

Member
Benraianajones said:
I'm glad you're a mind reader. I simply omitted it from my post as I didn't especially consider his reaction an amusing one, I still consider it a rather tense moment since he hasa gun stuck in his face, even if his reaction can cause smirks.


You didn't see his reaction was meant to be slightly comical?
 

Benraianajones

New member
Major West said:
You didn't see his reaction was meant to be slightly comical?

Yes, I see how it can raise a smirk, I don't doubt that. But he still has a gun pointed right up his nostril, and apparently are still in danger,so personally for me it didn't ruin any tension.

The only issue with the prarie dogs is they didn't really compliment any tension, one was on the opening, one was after the rocket sleigh (which was comical itself with their faces being pulled by the speed) and the fridge one was the only one, if any that sort of seemed to break any tension, though the fridge door opening and Indy rolling out was amusing anyway without a prarie dog. Again, I dont mind them, but Steven said they break tension, but I don't see what tension exactly.
 

The Man

Well-known member
Benraianajones said:
Again, I dont mind them, but Steven said they break tension, but I don't see what tension exactly.

Spielberg said that?! Oh, boy, that is funny! That's f*cking hilarious! :D :D :D
 

Benraianajones

New member
Well - relieve - not break, ha! But, same thing really, when there was no tension to break or leviate when they did surface.
 

Major West

Member
The Man said:
Spielberg said that?! Oh, boy, that is funny! That's f*cking hilarious! :D :D :D

Lets face it. Spielberg is more likely to be a better judge of what breaks tension in a film than you.
 

The Man

Well-known member
Major West said:
Lets face it. Spielberg is more likely to be a better judge of what breaks tension in a film than you.

Not based on this example, he's not. The prairie dogs only feature in the movie because Mr. Stevie thinks he knows what five-year-olds like to watch. Tension, indeed...:rolleyes:
 

Major West

Member
The Man said:
Not based on this example, he's not. The prairie dogs only feature in the movie because Mr. Stevie thinks he knows what five-year-olds like to watch. Tension, indeed...:rolleyes:

What's wrong with catering for young children?
 

The Golden Idol

New member
Forbidden Eye said:
You know, archaeologists are a lot like prairie dogs - they both dig.

You know, now I realized that the prairie dogs were actually a very deep symbolic analysis of Indy in in this film - both he and the prairie dogs are innocent bystanders caught in the hectic action of their dangerous and rapidly changing world, which they regard with much fear and hesitation.

;)


Nah, just kidding. :p
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Major West said:
Lets face it. Spielberg is more likely to be a better judge of what breaks tension in a film than you.

I honestly haven't been paying attention to the argument going on here, but this statement of yours strikes me as a bit ridiculous. Spielberg is no more qualified a judge of broken tension in a film than any given movie watcher - that's what a judge of tension is. It'd be one thing if you were saying something like, "Spielberg knows more about directing a movie than you do," but a judge of tension? If anything that's the audience's jurisdiction.
 
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