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Old 09-24-2015, 12:53 PM   #1
Z dweller
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Question What should the next Indy lady be like?

I think we can safely assume that Disney will eventually make a fifth Indy movie.

For the purposes of this thread, I am also assuming that Indy 5 will be a prequel, with the main story taking place before TOD in the timeline, and a new actor in his early 30s wearing the fedora. This seems to be the most likely scenario, regardless of whether or not Ford gets to play a cameo or bookend role.

Based on that, what do you think the next Indy lady (or "Jones girl", if you prefer ) should be like, in terms of personality?

We had Marion (kick-ass, sassy), Willie (helpless, funny), and Elsa (cold, calculating) and I’m sure we all agree that the Jones lady’s personality represents one of the main variables in Indy's adventures, which confers each of the first three movies a different and distinctive flavor*.

My preference for the next Indy lady would be: a sophisticated, smart, scholarly character who ends up actively helping Indy solve the puzzles and defuse the boobytraps they encounter in their quest for the macguffin.

I would also like to see some initial friction and antagonism between Indy and her.
She could be a scientist or a specialist of some kind, and Indy could perhaps be ordered to take her on his travels against his will, by whoever sends him on his quest.

Initially Indy would underestimate her and treat her like ballast, while she would think him arrogant and motivated by greed, not real thirst for knowledge (these would be Indy’s “fortune and glory” days, after all). In the end of course they would resolve their differences, and end up together.

Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. What are your views?






*many here at the Raven already pointed out that one of KOTCS’ many shortcomings was Marion’s underdeveloped role.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:46 PM   #2
Dana Scully
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Interesting thread idea, Z dweller. Thanks for pointing me in this direction.

To be honest, I'm torn as to whether I even really want an Indy 5 or not because we'll either get a) an even older, married Indy headlining the piece, or b) a younger actor playing him in a prequel, and neither is all that appealing to me. Indiana Jones is Harrison Ford and vice versa, I can't ever imagine another actor playing him as an adult. I know other actors have portrayed him in his childhood/teenage years but that's different.

To get back to the topic at hand, if we do get an Indy 5 I'd like to see an 'Indy girl' who is more of an action adventure type, a treasure hunter and fellow archeologist like Sophia Hapgood. I'd like her to be every bit as daring, resourceful and audacious as Indy himself, which of course would cause them to clash. I know we've already had Marion who was strong and feisty, but she still wasn't quite Indy's equal in the action stakes which is ultimately what I'd like to see.

A female character like that could fit in either a sequel or prequel too, she could be a potential love interest in a prequel or a younger woman that Indy has to work with (without any romantic setup) in a sequel scenario. If Mutt's still around in a possible sequel (if he is I hope he's recast) she could perhaps be his love interest instead.
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Scully
I'd like to see an 'Indy girl' who is more of an action adventure type, a treasure hunter and fellow archeologist like Sophia Hapgood. I'd like her to be every bit as daring, resourceful and audacious as Indy himself, which of course would cause them to clash. I know we've already had Marion who was strong and feisty, but she still wasn't quite Indy's equal in the action stakes which is ultimately what I'd like to see.
The film series has already had 3 out of 4 "daring, resourceful and audacious" female leads so it's time for another helpless, damsel-in-distress type. A woman or girl who is completely out of her element would be the better way to go (in order to avoid a retread of the tough chicks from the last 2 movies). Change it up a bit and bring on another Willie Scott!
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Change it up a bit and bring on another Willie Scott!

Bring on a Bond girl. A Beautiful Bimbo, without the self-awareness of herself.
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:00 PM   #5
Dana Scully
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
The film series has already had 3 out of 4 "daring, resourceful and audacious" female leads so it's time for another helpless, damsel-in-distress type. A woman or girl who is completely out of her element would be the better way to go (in order to avoid a retread of the tough chicks from the last 2 movies). Change it up a bit and bring on another Willie Scott!

I agree that Marion and Elsa could both be seen as daring and audacious but neither of them were anywhere close to being an equal to Indy in the action stakes, which is really what I'd like to see. The only female lead that was as good a fighter as Indy was Irina Spalko but I don't count her as being an 'Indy girl', she was the primary antagonist who had no romantic subplot, with Indy or otherwise.

I don't really have great issue with there being another 'damsel in distress' type, as long as she's nowhere near as 'pathetic' as Willie and she learns to toughen up somewhat throughout the movie.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Scully
I agree that Marion and Elsa could both be seen as daring and audacious but neither of them were anywhere close to being an equal to Indy in the action stakes, which is really what I'd like to see. The only female lead that was as good a fighter as Indy was Irina Spalko but I don't count her as being an 'Indy girl', she was the primary antagonist who had no romantic subplot, with Indy or otherwise.

I don't really have great issue with there being another 'damsel in distress' type, as long as she's nowhere near as 'pathetic' as Willie and she learns to toughen up somewhat throughout the movie.

Sounds like somebody is attempting to forward an agenda. To which I feel compelled to point out the name on the marquee. It's not a buddy comedy.

Having a another tough chick/Indy girl/whatever is nearly as tiresome as wanting to have Indy pummeling Naht-zees again. For the third time. The formula needs to chopped up and any female-lead should be relegated to a Denholm Elliot-like cameo. It's time for the other characters to receive much needed development;an obvious example being the fallout between Belloq & Jones.

But if there must really be a lady, then boy do I have one for you.
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Old 10-12-2015, 04:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Sounds like somebody is attempting to forward an agenda. To which I feel compelled to point out the name on the marquee. It's not a buddy comedy.

Having a another tough chick/Indy girl/whatever is nearly as tiresome as wanting to have Indy pummeling Naht-zees again. For the third time. The formula needs to chopped up and any female-lead should be relegated to a Denholm Elliot-like cameo. It's time for the other characters to receive much needed development;an obvious example being the fallout between Belloq & Jones.

But if there must really be a lady, then boy do I have one for you.

Yes, I can see a sequel to ToD where Indy reunites with Short Round who has found a new career. Indy becomes his manager and they hit the road on a wonderful tour, but this is where the plot thickens....

There are tough gangs from Manila who want to dominate this burgeoning industry and they use violence and BLACK MAGIC to quell their competition.

With his karate skills fallen away, Short Round has to use his wits and nails to fight the foes while Indy punches, whips and shoots his way through the enemy ranks as usual. Sometimes he has to slap a bit as well.

"Anything Goes" can take on a whole new meaning too.

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Old 10-13-2015, 12:47 PM   #8
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Ahem gents: can we get back on topic, before Le Sab starts posting his entire Pattaya pix collection?

WRT the tough chick vs. damsel in distress debate, how about an Indy girl who's at the same time brainy, knowledgeable and capable of helping our hero with puzzles and booby* traps, but otherwise pretty clumsy and defenseless?

Wouldn't that be fun?





*no more body parts jokes please
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Bring on a Bond girl. A Beautiful Bimbo, without the self-awareness of herself.
Most of the Bond girls were clever & smart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Scully
I agree that Marion and Elsa could both be seen as daring and audacious but neither of them were anywhere close to being an equal to Indy in the action stakes, which is really what I'd like to see. The only female lead that was as good a fighter as Indy was Irina Spalko but I don't count her as being an 'Indy girl', she was the primary antagonist who had no romantic subplot, with Indy or otherwise.

I don't really have great issue with there being another 'damsel in distress' type, as long as she's nowhere near as 'pathetic' as Willie and she learns to toughen up somewhat throughout the movie.
To each his/her own, I guess. Willie is a classic archetype so it would fitting to return to that, even if she doesn't "toughen up" in the end. If you want to see a female equivalent "in the action stakes" then perhaps those "Tomb Raider/Relic Hunter" things might be better for you? As Le Saboteur already pointed out, it's supposed to be an Indiana Jones movie. One of the general criticisms of "Skull" was an unnecessary focus on the Spalko/Mutt fight, taking away the attention of our hero. Sorry, Dana, but I can't see a strong chick sharing action-time in Indy 5 to be a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
...the tough chick vs. damsel in distress debate, how about an Indy girl who's at the same time brainy, knowledgeable and capable of helping our hero with puzzles and booby* traps, but otherwise pretty clumsy and defenseless?
Emily Dreggs is whom you're after, Mr. Z Dweller, and rightly so. From Adam Hughes' unpublished, "Indiana Jones and the Jungle Queen": A female lead with a nerdy look who has bandaged knees & elbows (which testify to her clumsiness in the wild). By appearance, she has all the right traits. Shame about her haircut, though!

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Old 10-15-2015, 02:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
There are tough gangs from Manila who want to dominate this burgeoning industry and they use violence and BLACK MAGIC to quell their competition.

You joke, but there's potential here. According to The Pathamamulamuli* -- the Thai creation story -- a member of the third sex (kathoey) was present at the creation of the world. They commit the world's first murder and ancestor worship arises out of all of this. Depending on how far you want to delve into the preternatural there are a lot of ways to proceed.

* - Other research contends that this wasn't a Tai belief, rather one commonly found what is now present-day Laos and northern Vietnam. Regardless, the idea of a hermaphrodite at the point of creation is common among several Southeast Asian cultures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Ahem gents: can we get back on topic, before Le Sab starts posting his entire Pattaya pix collection?

It doesn't make your Whitey Bulge(r)? Sorry, I thought Pale was creating a thread on Nikki Minaj's derriere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
...how about an Indy girl who's at the same time brainy, knowledgeable and capable of helping our hero with puzzles and booby* traps, but otherwise pretty clumsy and defenseless?

It was fun. But it's almost as if you've never heard of The Mummy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Emily Dreggs is whom you're after, Mr. Z Dweller, and rightly so. From Adam Hughes' unpublished, "Indiana Jones and the Jungle Queen": A female lead with a nerdy look who has bandaged knees & elbows (which testify to her clumsiness in the wild). By appearance, she has all the right traits. Shame about her haircut, though!

Obvious joke is obvious. I'm intrigued though.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:53 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
It was fun. But it's almost as if you've never heard of The Mummy.
Au contraire, mon ami...
I had that movie in general, and that scene in particular, firmly in mind when I made my suggestion.

Just because Mrs Weisz played a similar role in The Mummy, doesn't mean the same idea wouldn't work even better for Indy 5.
Unlike Indy, Rick O'Connell is hardly an erudite character, so his interaction with Evelyn Carnahan is completely different from the type of relationship I described in my OP.

Also, I would envisage the next Indy girl to be a lot less shy and bookish than Evelyn Carnahan, physically more attractive and elegant.

Perhaps not so far from this?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Emily Dreggs is whom you're after, Mr. Z Dweller, and rightly so. From Adam Hughes' unpublished, "Indiana Jones and the Jungle Queen": A female lead with a nerdy look who has bandaged knees & elbows (which testify to her clumsiness in the wild). By appearance, she has all the right traits. Shame about her haircut, though!

I actually don't mind her haircut, but she's a bit too chubby for my liking in those drawings, and I'm sure Indy would agree.
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Old 10-18-2015, 03:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
To each his/her own, I guess. Willie is a classic archetype so it would fitting to return to that, even if she doesn't "toughen up" in the end. If you want to see a female equivalent "in the action stakes" then perhaps those "Tomb Raider/Relic Hunter" things might be better for you? As Le Saboteur already pointed out, it's supposed to be an Indiana Jones movie. One of the general criticisms of "Skull" was an unnecessary focus on the Spalko/Mutt fight, taking away the attention of our hero. Sorry, Dana, but I can't see a strong chick sharing action-time in Indy 5 to be a good thing.

I don't see how having a physically capable and strong female character takes away from it being an Indiana Jones movie any more than having a weaker, damsel in distress type does? I'm not saying she has to be an equal to Indy in importance or amount of screen time, I'd simply like to see a woman on Indy's side who can kick butt, that's all. But like you say, each to their own and I definitely agree with you in respect of the Mutt/Spalko fight. That duel should have a) been better shot and choreographed (a.k.a. less damn green screen), and b) should have been between Indy and Spalko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Also, I would envisage the next Indy girl to be a lot less shy and bookish than Evelyn Carnahan, physically more attractive and elegant.

Perhaps not so far from this?


Gwyneth Paltrow more attractive than Rachel Weisz?? Each to their own indeed.

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Old 11-24-2015, 03:06 AM   #13
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Gwyneth Paltrow more attractive than Rachel Weisz?? Each to their own indeed.

You'll have to forgive him. He's fanboy-ing hard with this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Just because Mrs Weisz played a similar role in The Mummy, doesn't mean the same idea wouldn't work even better for Indy 5.

Now that we're nearly twenty years on from Ms. Weisz's star turning performance, no, it doesn't mean that a similar character couldn't work for another Indiana Jones picture. Better is entirely subjective though, and I can almost guarantee you that a similar character would have been redlined as recently as '08.

Moving on.

I have long argued that the series desperately needs a palette swap. Combine that with an injection of melanin when it comes to casting, and you're well on the way to creating something interesting. Be they villains or allies or passers-by, let's expand the muster sheet. When doing so though, forgo the romantic subplot -- it's tiresome; unless Indy is the third wheel -- and let them stand on their own whether the character is "capable" or not.

For example, Fan Bingbing was the fourth highest paid actress last year and is guaranteed to put butts in seats in the all-important Asian market.





Or Poorna Jagannathan, but just because I recently saw Delhi Belly again.





They work cheap too.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
You'll have to forgive him. He's fanboy-ing hard with this thread.
No, I am not.

First of all, I asked specifically "what do you think the next Indy lady should be like, in terms of personality?".

But you started posting pictures, so I replied in kind.
However, I was clearly referring to Gwyneth Paltrow's look in "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow", not rooting for her to be cast as the next Jones girl.

Apart from anything else, at 43 she's a bit long in the tooth to be playing pre-1935 Indy's love interest, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
forgo the romantic subplot -- it's tiresome.
I disagree. Indy's womanizing side is an integral part of his personality, particularly if the next movie is set before TOD in the timeline.

And with a good screenwriter on board the possibilities to make his relationship with the girl interesting are endless.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:29 PM   #15
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I think there could be an Indy Girl even if Ford does come back for one more. I imagine the movie could open with him on some overseas expedition -- a smart way of excluding the fam and plus we're due for an Indy that doesn't open in the States -- and he ends up collaborating with a younger woman who has a platonic infatuation with him. Hermione Granger in her 30s, that sort of thing. Someone who can relate to and appreciate Indy on a studious level.

It would of course have to be played for comedy rather than sensuality, but that could be a fun dynamic, with him serving as a mentor who at times has to swat her off. Sort of like the non-annoying version of what one of those Indy comics tried to do where Indy had a teacher's pet type student as his temporary sidekick.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:40 AM   #16
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Well, since Indy married Marion at the end of KOTCS & since HF will be 77 when the next Indy film comes out in 2019, I somehow doubt he'll be chasing another woman in Indy 5. I've been wrong before, however

It would be nice to see a younger woman in the film as a sort of "foil" to IJ, however.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out...
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #17
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Well, since Indy married Marion at the end of KOTCS & since HF will be 77 when the next Indy film comes out in 2019, I somehow doubt he'll be chasing another woman in Indy 5. I've been wrong before, however

It would be nice to see a younger woman in the film as a sort of "foil" to IJ, however.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out...

Maybe one of Indy's students comes along with him on this adventure? Would be a nice counterpoint to the scene in 'Raiders' where all his female students are swooning over him. But instead this time you have a woman trying to break into archaeology academics but finding roadblocks because of her youth/gender.
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:58 PM   #18
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What if his next lady is a young Marion? What I mean is, if there's a young Indy story running parallel with Harrison's story, maybe it can be Indy's adventure in 1926 which led to the romance with Marion, with Abner mentoring him and showing him the ropes.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:56 PM   #19
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That would have to be a 16 year old girl then. I'm all for attracting the younger crowd, but that might be taking it a little too far.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:08 PM   #20
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That would have to be a 16 year old girl then. I'm all for attracting the younger crowd, but that might be taking it a little too far.

Make her 17 or 18 than.
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Old 03-29-2016, 10:48 AM   #21
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Personally, I think we've had enough of Marion already.

I wouldn't mind seeing her briefly, perhaps at the beginning of the movie, but I certainly would not want her to tag along for Indy's next adventure.

Much more interesting to have a new Indy lady, perhaps an old flame whom we get to know in flashback scenes, and then older Indy meets again in act II.

They wouldn’t need to end up together, in fact it might even be funny to have them get off to a very bad start when they meet again, then make peace and get along as friends by the end of the story, with just a hint of sexual tension still there for the ride.
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:22 PM   #22
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Isn't Indy married ? unless this is to be a prequel which I doubt because of Fords age?
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:27 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DARTH ZOIDBERG
Isn't Indy married ? unless this is to be a prequel which I doubt because of Fords age?
Sssshhh...

We try to forget about that film.

I've been waiting for this new Indy movie since The Last Crusade!
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DARTH ZOIDBERG
Isn't Indy married ? unless this is to be a prequel which I doubt because of Fords age?

As others have suggested, there can be a woman in the cast without her being a straightforward love interest.
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Old 03-29-2016, 04:39 PM   #25
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For example, Fan Bingbing was the fourth highest paid actress last year and is guaranteed to put butts in seats in the all-important Asian market.



Perhaps I could have commented at a much earlier time, but there certainly is a strong Rachel/Blade Runner vibe above.
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