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Old 04-21-2016, 04:04 PM   #1
Raiders112390
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Should Short Round or Sallah cameo?

Even if just for a few seconds? I feel they were sorely missed in KOTCS.
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:26 PM   #2
Attila the Professor
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Based on the strength of the recurring characters in the earlier sequels (Sallah welcome, superfluous, and arguably more caricatured; Marcus enriched in one moment and made comic relief in the next; Marion having abandoned all subtlety and vulnerability), I'd be wary of seeing any of them again for an extended period of time.

I also don't see any point in a cameo. While Sallah had been treated as a closer friend of Indy, perhaps more than just a regional contact (or, at least, a contact in a region he visits a lot), his absence from the wedding truly didn't bother me. Coming just for that strains credulity, unless he's been doing very well for himself. (To be fair, his wardrobe in Last Crusade suggests he's been flourishing in the 2 years since Raiders.) What's the point of showing him for 30 seconds?

I feel similarly about Short Round, a feeling exacerbated by Quan being basically retired from acting. While you opted not to mention Willie, I'm content to leave the both of them out of future installments. Hopefully they've thrived since '35, but being reassured of such goes further down the road of sentimentalizing Indy's world.

If you think Short Round and Sallah were missing from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I'm a little curious why you feel Marion was unnecessary to bring back? Is this a matter of execution? Or did I misread you in another thread?
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Old 04-22-2016, 12:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Based on the strength of the recurring characters in the earlier sequels (Sallah welcome, superfluous, and arguably more caricatured; Marcus enriched in one moment and made comic relief in the next; Marion having abandoned all subtlety and vulnerability), I'd be wary of seeing any of them again for an extended period of time.

I also don't see any point in a cameo. While Sallah had been treated as a closer friend of Indy, perhaps more than just a regional contact (or, at least, a contact in a region he visits a lot), his absence from the wedding truly didn't bother me. Coming just for that strains credulity, unless he's been doing very well for himself. (To be fair, his wardrobe in Last Crusade suggests he's been flourishing in the 2 years since Raiders.) What's the point of showing him for 30 seconds?

I feel similarly about Short Round, a feeling exacerbated by Quan being basically retired from acting. While you opted not to mention Willie, I'm content to leave the both of them out of future installments. Hopefully they've thrived since '35, but being reassured of such goes further down the road of sentimentalizing Indy's world.

If you think Short Round and Sallah were missing from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I'm a little curious why you feel Marion was unnecessary to bring back? Is this a matter of execution? Or did I misread you in another thread?

Marion was an old flame, who was immediately ditched in the immediate sequels ala Bond. I've never understood the Marion fandom. Sallah was shown to have been at the very least a good friend of Indy's who might go way back; Short Round was basically a foster son in Indy's care who just suddenly disappeared without mention. I happen to personally, subjectively, enjoy those two characters a lot more than Marion...Short Round was sort of Indy's "son" in Temple...To just sort of ignore his existence entirely after Temple is sort of sad. Sallah I just enjoy because he's always been a bit of a lovable oaf and he's thus far been the most loyal of Indy's friends.
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Even if just for a few seconds?
Well, anything more substantial than a few seconds wouldn't be cameo appearances (another continually misused word). Cameo roles are very brief, usually uncredited and often without dialogue, such as George & Steven in "Doom" or Dennis Muren in "Raiders". Is that what you're asking?

Anyway, I'd prefer to have neither of those 2 characters return at all. Indy is supposed to be a worldly fellow with plenty of friends around the globe and I'd like to see some fresh faces & new names. However, my sneaking suspicion is that #5 will take place in The Orient so having Shorty somewhere in the story wouldn't be senseless for such a scenario.

For more opinions, check out these Indy 5 threads:

Short Round in Indy 5, Who's with me?
Should Short Round return or get his own movie?
is Short Round not so "round" after all?
Could Short Round be a villain in Indy V???
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Old 04-26-2016, 10:31 AM   #5
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I'm on the fence about this, to be honest.

On one hand, cameos can feel gimmicky, unless they really tie into the story in some important way. I can't honestly say I missed Sallah in KOTCS, and shoe-horning him into the wedding scene would have, to me, just felt like another little wink at the audience, rather than actually adding anything to the story at all.

Now, if we're talking about something larger than a cameo, such as when Sallah reprised his role in LC, I'm still on the fence. On the postive side, bringing back a character we know can add weight to the story. For example, in KOTCS, I didn't care at all about Oxley, but if it had been Henry Sr or Sallah, I would have been more invested in Indy's search for him.
But then is that just a cop-out for the writers? A good writer should be able to MAKE us care about new characters, rather than having to rely on ones we already know. There was a time we didn't know about Sallah or Henry Sr or Short Round, but many of us have grown to care about all of them. I haven't yet met anybody who cares one way or another about Oxley (or Mac, for that matter.)
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Old 04-26-2016, 12:59 PM   #6
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Willie had a cameo in KOTCS. Did you miss it?
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:06 PM   #7
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I remember seeing the Willie Scott photograph in Indy's fancy new house in one of those Guy Dyas featurettes where he gives a tour of the set, but did it actually get screentime?

Similarly, he showed off how the Staff of Moses prop from The Ten Commandments was in one of the warehouse boxes, but I'll be damned if that ever made it to the final cut either. I remember when LucasArts was working on Staff of Kings there was talk of tying in with Crystal Skull somehow, but that never happened. I wonder if that was supposed to be what linked the projects?

I hope Guy Dyas returns for Indy 5. He made such impressive sets and really sweated the details.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:00 PM   #8
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Personally i would prefer all new sidekicks.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
I remember seeing the Willie Scott photograph in Indy's fancy new house in one of those Guy Dyas featurettes where he gives a tour of the set, but did it actually get screentime?

It did, lots of it. It's not on theRaider.net's screenshot page, but as soon as I'm not behind a webfilter that blocks image sites, I'll post it.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:01 AM   #10
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I really don't know what to think about old sidekicks come back… Indeed, the return of Marion was so disapointing, but on the other side, the new ones (Mutt, Mac, Oxley) were not that interesting either…
But… if they set Indy back in the 2nd World War again with a young actor (Harrison will tell the story), then maybe we will know how Indy met Sallah or/and Short Round, or/and Chewbacca
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Old 04-28-2016, 06:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgribouille
I really don't know what to think about old sidekicks come back… Indeed, the return of Marion was so disapointing, but on the other side, the new ones (Mutt, Mac, Oxley) were not that interesting either…
But… if they set Indy back in the 2nd World War again with a young actor (Harrison will tell the story), then maybe we will know how Indy met Sallah or/and Short Round, or/and Chewbacca

Indy already knew Sallah and Short Round in the 30s.
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:33 AM   #12
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WWII stories either narrated by Ford or done via animation would be fantastic, but I think that should be a post-Indy5 project.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:22 AM   #13
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Ford, the mumbler, should not be a narrator.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
WWII stories either narrated by Ford or done via animation would be fantastic, but I think that should be a post-Indy5 project.
I would love to see an animated TV show à la The Clone Wars.
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:08 PM   #15
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If they make it work, and their return makes sense for both the movie as a standalone and for the franchise as a whole, then I'm all for it. However, new characters are a must, so if they can combine new faces with old ones, I think everything would blend wonderfully.

But now that I've heard the writer for Crystal Skull is writing the fifth installment, I worry for the plot. Don't get me wrong, I love Crystal Skull, but there were things I would have done differently, and the last thing I want for Indy 5 is to be worse than or about equal with 4.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:01 PM   #16
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I'm choosing to be hopeful, and one argument for taking that position is the fact that Spielberg signed on. What possible reason would he have to make Indiana Jones 5, sans George Lucas, unless he wants to close out the series right?
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:46 AM   #17
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In all honesty, I would absolutely love to see both Short Round and Sallah return, not just for cameos to wink at the camera, but for full blown fleshed out roles. I don't care one bit if it seems contrived that they're back. If the story is written well, it would work just fine. Plus, at this point in time, especially with this most certainly being Ford's last adventure as Indy, I say let's go all out and bring back Indy's closest friends. The characters exist and are still alive. The actors are still alive. Spielberg could almost certainly get them to come back (especially if the script is well written and the story is good). So I'm all for it. It would be much nicer to have these two back than to have some random ass sidekick that we've never seen before. Save that for reboot Indy who's much younger and has plenty of time to build his world. As is, people have friends and contacts in real life that they reconnect with after years and years. Why can't Indy? I say bring them back and make them a major part of the adventure.

As for just a straight cameo, I would love to see one from Willie. She doesn't need to go on the adventure, but of all the characters in the Indy universe she's probably the best suited to be there purely for a wink.

Plus, for a lot of the audience, this would be quite the tickle. What's wrong with doing something that'll make the audience happy every once in a while?

Any of this would be better than having characters that no one cares about like Mac or Oxley.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:34 AM   #18
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I must admit that I am warming up to the idea of Short Round coming back for Indy 5.

Barring flashbacks to a younger Indy (which would be my favorite scenario), they'll need a sidekick to step in for at least some of the action scenes (it already happened in KOTCS with Mutt), and Shorty could be made to fit the bill nicely.

If they set the story at the beginning of the 60s, say 1961 for the sake of argument, Shorty would be 37. Not quite in his prime, perhaps, but still credibly capable of kicking some good butt.

I'd rather see him back than have Koepp concoct another young kid dealing with coming of age angst.

But I suspect the odds are very, very long.
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Old 10-30-2016, 05:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN
I say let's go all out and bring back Indy's closest friends.
...

It would be much nicer to have these two back than to have some random ass sidekick that we've never seen before.
Well, in Temple of Doom, Shorty was a "random ass sidekick that we've never seen before". Plus, out of all the stories out there, he has only been in 1 movie and a very brief appearance in 1 comic. That's hardly enough to consider him as one of Indy's "closest friends".

If Short Round *does* appear in Indy 5, I'd like to see him get killed within the first 10 minutes.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Well, in Temple of Doom, Shorty was a "random ass sidekick that we've never seen before". Plus, out of all the stories out there, he has only been in 1 movie and a very brief appearance in 1 comic. That's hardly enough to consider him as one of Indy's "closest friends".

If Short Round *does* appear in Indy 5, I'd like to see him get killed within the first 10 minutes.

Yeah, but when you're younger that's the time to build the universe with new characters. At this point with this being Ford's last go as Indy, let's have a little fun with it and bring back some old established ones.

Even if Shorty was only in it for the one movie, the audience (us) still recognizes him from ToD. I think most people would too, especially if they mentioned it in the story. Plus, Indy and Shorty seemed to have a better relationship than Indy and Sr. No doubt Indy helped Short Round out immensely in life. Didn't he pay for him to go to school in America? Well let's see the result of that, on film. No doubt they've stayed in touch.

As for my "random ass" comment, that was directed at Mac and Oxley. They were basically two random ass nobodies than were brought in that I certainly didn't care about and really added nothing to the overall universe. They made Shorty and Willie seem positively Shakespearean by comparison. For the last go, I'd rather they bring back Short Round and Sallah both, two established characters that are both fan favorites. (Though I understand some people weren't as fond of Shorty). But I believe this was due to the way he was written at the time. While I had no problem with it, I know some people did. Just keep this in mind... if he was to return, he'd be an adult now and most likely wouldn't act the same as he did when he was just a kid, so they could make him into a more relatable character. Having them back with Indy for Ford's last film would be a great send off to all three characters and the franchise as a whole IMO. (But also, keep in mind, Indy 5 itself would also bring in new characters, so it's not like we wouldn't be getting any at all. It's the best of both worlds)

Then they can reboot and really start building the universe with lots and lots of new characters.
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Old 10-31-2016, 07:58 AM   #21
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If they handle returning sidekicks like they did Marcus & Sallah in TLC and Marion like they did in KOTCS, then I'd rather they leave well alone and have Indy with a new sidekick.
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Old 10-31-2016, 08:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyLGR
If they handle returning sidekicks like they did Marcus & Sallah in TLC and Marion like they did in KOTCS, then I'd rather they leave well alone and have Indy with a new sidekick.

What didn't you like about Sallah and Marcus in LC? I agree though about Marion in KOTCS.
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:34 PM   #23
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For me, I would gladly welcome any of the characters mentioned to return in Indiana Jones 5- whether as a cameo or extended role.

Sallah (who I think would be a more likely choice, given that he's appeared in two movies already and has appeared in the extended world as well- once in a Young Indiana Jones books and in some of the adult novels),
Marion Ravenwood Jones (she's Indy's wife now- I think she needs to appear at least for a little bit of the story),
Mutt (if you're going to have Marion, you really should have Mutt show up for a bit too),
Short Round (I'd welcome an appearance from a grown up Shorty),
Willie Scott (sure- why not? Maybe Indy can catch her singing act for a quick scene, presuming she's still performing at that point),
Harold Oxley (I rather liked his character myself- it could just be that I like John Hurt's acting- mainly from his time as The Storyteller on "The Jim Henson Hour" )
Dean Charles Stanforth (If they do any scenes at Indy's college, it would make sense for him to appear.)

And- one of the few villians who could still return if it makes sense for the story- Lao Che. (Obviously, the role would have to be recast, as Roy Chiao died in 1999.)

Also- the setting of the story will affect the appearances of all these characters. I presume the movie will probably be set in the early 1960s at this point. However, if it were to perhaps feature some of Indy's World War II adventures in flashback for a scene or two (which I would welcome, if it fit into the larger story and made sense to do)- I would LOVE to see another throwback to "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" by having Sean Patrick Flanery again play the role. I know he's in his early 50's now- hard to believe that! - but if Harrison Ford can play Indiana Jones in his 70's, surely Flanery can still pull it off. I don't know if this one would realistically happen, but I'd love to see it anyway.
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Old 10-31-2016, 02:10 PM   #24
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Sounds like a Broadway musical now.
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:26 PM   #25
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What a great idea! Someone can finally put lyrics to the Raiders March and we'll have a reprise of Willie Scott singing "Anything Goes".
Indiana Jones 5: The Musical- it's going to be awesome!
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