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Old 03-13-2011, 07:47 AM   #101
Rocket Surgeon
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:33 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JK_Antwon
kongisking you didn't like the star wars prequels! What the heck is wrong with you! Man you must be crazy!


ok I have poked my fun, I'm done!

Nah, I just think they were flawed. Not pure awful.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:20 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

George F. Will, syndicated Washington columnist, didn't particularly love Temple of Doom.

I've typed up what I see as the highlights of his review, or should that read lowlights?

The base-line:

Quote:
Originally Posted by George F. Will
This movie is about nine minutes of relative calm, and 109 minutes of violent action punctuated by intervals of mere repulsiveness...That meal was comic relief from giant roaches and other creepy crawly things, and from children-flogging sadists who are lead by a live-wire who with his bare hands plucks the hearts from the chest of victims.

The frolicsome movie proceeds without undue expenditure of nuance, which is fine, but suddenly it becomes ugly. There is salacious cruelty in the torture scene where a fellow is roasted alive...

The flogging, roasting, and heart-plucking are not suitable for children...and as a cultural symptom is depressing...an example of the upward ratchet effect of shocking extremism in popular entertainment.

And for the root cause of the problem, and Public Enemy number 1 and number 2, posing threat to the future of all children everywhere:

Quote:
Originally Posted by George F. Will
The two persons responsible for Temple of Doom, Steven Spielberg and George Lucas, are commercial geniuses...Their obsession with juvenile obsessions (repulsive creatures and foods) may be evidence of their arrested development, which is their problem. But the sensory blitzkrieg they have produced to coin money is apt to stunt the imaginations of children, and that is our problem. This movie is perfectly made for perfectly passive children - for children raised on electronic images rather than on reading, which requires imaginative involvement.

Movies can engage the imagination but doing so requires art. And whatever else art involves, it involves proportionality and subtlety - the ability to approach the edge of excess without falling in. This movie leaps in exuberantly, and that is why there may not be a third Indy epic. What is left to happen to him?

When I read "juvenile obsessions" and "arrested development", my opinion that TOD and KOTCS are brothers-in-arms is reinforced. Where TOD took Raiders' Indy on a wild excursion, TLC brought him back home again. KOTCS takes him away again, but the "juvenile obsession" is increased three-fold. From which point it will take a lot of calming down to bring Indy home again in #5.

George F. Will highlighted the mercenary tendency of Lucas and Spielberg - "the sensory blitzkrieg they have produced to coin money" - as their motive for ramping up the shock and lurid spectacle. Though we know there were also other considerations acting on the mood of the two "commericial geniuses", as they made their trip through theTOD's underworld.

When we come to KOTCS the "juvenile obsession" was back, but there were no mitigating excuses. On that note, I could use the columnist's conclusion to better describe KOTCS: And whatever else art involves, it involves proportionality and subtlety - the ability to approach the edge of excess without falling in. This movie leaps in exuberantly, and that is why there may not be a fifth Indy epic.

If TOD remains a warm nostalgic memory, does that mean that I'm just too old for KOTCS?

Last edited by Montana Smith : 03-14-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:07 PM   #104
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USA Network has been airing Indiana Jones all this month. Did you guys watch Temple of Doom yesterday on USA Network?
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:44 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
When I read "juvenile obsessions" and "arrested development", my opinion that TOD and KOTCS are brothers-in-arms is reinforced. Where TOD took Raiders' Indy on a wild excursion, TLC brought him back home again. KOTCS takes him away again, but the "juvenile obsession" is increased three-fold. From which point it will take a lot of calming down to bring Indy home again in #5.

George F. Will highlighted the mercenary tendency of Lucas and Spielberg - "the sensory blitzkrieg they have produced to coin money" - as their motive for ramping up the shock and lurid spectacle. Though we know there were also other considerations acting on the mood of the two "commericial geniuses", as they made their trip through theTOD's underworld.

When we come to KOTCS the "juvenile obsession" was back, but there were no mitigating excuses. On that note, I could use the columnist's conclusion to better describe KOTCS: And whatever else art involves, it involves proportionality and subtlety - the ability to approach the edge of excess without falling in. This movie leaps in exuberantly, and that is why there may not be a fifth Indy epic.

If TOD remains a warm nostalgic memory, does that mean that I'm just too old for KOTCS?

Montana - I just read this. Good post. I agree with you in that TOD and KOTCS do share a propensity for the ridiculous/excessive... whilst Raiders and TLC seem more restrained in comparison. However, I'm not sure what you mean by KOTCS having no mitigating excuses for "juvenile obsession". As I firmly believe that TOD is the least "subtle" and 'proportionate' action/adventure of the series (not necessarily a bad thing by the way), I'd have to conclude that the warm fuzzy feeling you have for TOD is 90% nostalgia. Too old for KOTCS? Nope... similar to me, you are probably less easily pleased and more discerning than you used to be.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:49 AM   #106
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To me, ToD is still my favorite. I may or may not have posted this already. And I've watched it quite recently even after I've been a harsh critic of other films but it's one movie where I can just let go have fun. Similar to the Bond films. Raiders is undoubtedly the best. I'd never argue that. But ToD will always be my favorite.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:16 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Montana - I just read this. Good post. I agree with you in that TOD and KOTCS do share a propensity for the ridiculous/excessive... whilst Raiders and TLC seem more restrained in comparison. However, I'm not sure what you mean by KOTCS having no mitigating excuses for "juvenile obsession". As I firmly believe that TOD is the least "subtle" and 'proportionate' action/adventure of the series (not necessarily a bad thing by the way), I'd have to conclude that the warm fuzzy feeling you have for TOD is 90% nostalgia. Too old for KOTCS? Nope... similar to me, you are probably less easily pleased and more discerning than you used to be.

I won't say that I dislike Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, as one of my favorite characters from TOD would have to be Short Round. But on a scale of one to ten, with ten being the best I'd give Temple of Doom a five as it isn't at the top of my list as being the best of the best. I like Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade far better because as you've said Darth Vile they are 'restrained in comparison' with Temple of Doom and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

I don't really know how to put it this into words but the movie Kingdom of the Crystal Skull wasn't awful, I liked it immensely when I first saw it because I was full of nostalgia for a renewal of Indiana Jones in todays world of pop culture along with the frustration that I had that Lucasfilm had simply abandoned the Indiana Jones franchise. I still enjoy KOTCS but it isn't my favorite. Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade will always be the greatest entires in the Indiana Jones saga for me personally.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:29 PM   #108
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The 2nd Best by Far

I saw Raiders as a kid in the theater and from that moment there was no movie better. TOD came along a few years later and I loved it as well. LC came out in my early teens and it had to grow on me. I love it now but the first time I watched it I felt different. KOTCS I like well enough, it's Indy and about what I expected it to be considering what Lucas's track record has been. TOD in my opinion is the best of the prequel/sequels to Raiders. None of the movies are quite Raiders but I feel like TOD does the best at keeping the action level high while not ripping off Raiders minus the sword joke at the end. It seems the most original and not so desperate to be Raiders. But no matter what as long as Harrison will wear the hat and crack the whip I'll go see it and have fun regardless.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:41 PM   #109
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I think so many people love Temple because its so bad, so cheesy and poorly constructed...

Its noble to root for the underdog, which Indy is as a character and Temple is among the other films.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:21 PM   #110
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Thanks for digging up this thread Rocket Surgeon, too many other threads of late have been hate threads.

My favorite when I was TOD just because of how much action and change of location there was. Raiders is not slow or without action by any means but there are less talky scenes in TOD, which probably meant TOD held my attention better when I was little. Short Round may annoy some but he made me like TOD even more. I was probably jealous of a little kid like me (past tense) going along on an adventure with Indy! Driving cars, fighting Thuggee, riding elephants... Short Round was cool. Rather than subject you to all my favorite scenes I'm sure we're all aware of, in short, I love Temple of Doom.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #111
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TOD was very good. It wasn't ROTLA, or Last Crusade. It was better than KOTCS, which was still pretty good. Not the best. But TOD was dark and mysterious. It showed a different prt of Indy we hadn't seen yet. One of my distinct memories about the movie was when I first saw it. I felt my stomach turn when the man's heart was pulled out and became breathless. My friends and I watched it at a sleepover a few years later and drooled over Indy with his shirt off. I asked "Should I kiss the screen? I mean, he is SO hot."

It was interesting and memorable. It was Indy branching off to something else. Sure, it was quirky and flawed, but they all are.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:23 PM   #112
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Temple of Doom is my favourite. For me, the first 20 minutes are the most exciting roller-coaster ride in film history. I love the opening song and dance number, the confrontation with Lao Che and all that follows. It is from Temple of Doom that I love the whole series. I think it's perfection!
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:31 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinthal
Temple of Doom is my favourite. For me, the first 20 minutes are the most exciting roller-coaster ride in film history. I love the opening song and dance number, the confrontation with Lao Che and all that follows. It is from Temple of Doom that I love the whole series. I think it's perfection!

Any film that introduces you to something you love remains important. That's how I feel about the second album by the band Queen; it introduced me to something I love so I feel it is perfection. It's cool that 'Temple' brought you to the series! Keep waving the flag for that film.


I used to not like the entire dance scene and such, but I can't imagine the film without it now. Good stuff, IMO.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:23 AM   #114
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Thanks Dr.Jonesy. Queen are the greatest! (outside of the Fab Four themselves). I grew up with Queen always present on the airwaves and they are second-to-none, fronted by the greatest rock voice of all time! One day I hope to sit down and listen to their original albums.

I saw Raiders when it was first released in Aus when I was 15 and then Temple of Doom when I was a few months shy of 18. I have come to love Raiders - and my head tells me it is the best film - but my inner kid loves Temple of Doom... sorry Raiders lovers, that's just the way it is!

I wish Spielberg would "re-own" the Temple of Doom as he has made a very good effort of disowning it. *It seems to me that he distances himself from it because of all the criticism it received due to its perceived "darkness" (I don't get that, it's too cartoony for me to be dark), that children are enslaved (hey, they get rescued!), and (probably the strongest criticism) of its representation of Hinduism. Also, as his wife, Kate Capshaw, got lambasted for Willie's very unfeminist character I'll go out on a limb and say that perhaps between two of them they've decided that ToD is better left unmentioned.

Another criticism is the famous feast scene. The criticism being that far from eating all that is represented in the picture, India*is of course the great example of a largely vegetarian culture. (Wikipedia says that about 40% only eat vegetables and eggs, and of the rest coastal peoples will often merely add fish to that.) But if you've been anywhere in *East* Asia you will have come across food cultures not too dissimilar from what Indy and co. had to endure, which must be exactly what the filmmakers are playing on in the scene, just translocated to India. Some years ago when I was in Vietnam I was invited to eat dog (declined!) and at a get-together the girl sitting right next to me ordered, you guessed it... bugs! Also in a Vietnamese restaurant here in Aus many, many years ago the guys we were with ordered eel and this came out on a tiered platter looking pretty much exactly like the "Snake Surprise" in the movie (no wriggly little eels came out though!!)

Last edited by reinthal : 09-01-2012 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:31 AM   #115
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Queen are the greatest, IMO. Always will be my favorite band.

'70s Queen especially!

And don't worry about Spielberg disowning it. Lucas has said less than kind things about it as has Capshaw. In the end, it doesn't matter. What an artist says about his/her art doesn't change what it is to you or people.

And I totally get what you mean about how you probably know 'Raiders' is the best film but you love 'Temple' more. With most people I'm sure if you asked them, they'd agree that there is a difference between what you can perceive as the 'best' by a definition of art and what you love more and enjoy more. What you enjoy more is more important.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:15 PM   #116
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I like it because it's very exciting, has great acting, a good plot, good characters and humor. I watched it last night and actually enjoyed it more than Raiders this time.

My only gripe is that they should have set in 1937 instead of making it a prequal to Raiders. After witnessing everything Indy did in Temple, there's no way he should have said "I don't believe in magic" in the beginning of Raiders.

Quote:
*It seems to me that he distances himself from it because of all the criticism it received due to its perceived "darkness" (I don't get that, it's too cartoony for me to be dark), that children are enslaved (hey, they get rescued!), and (probably the strongest criticism) of its representation of Hinduism. Also, as his wife, Kate Capshaw, got lambasted for Willie's very unfeminist character I'll go out on a limb and say that perhaps between two of them they've decided that ToD is better left unmentioned.

I think it's a shame if Steven and Kate take the criticisms to heart. There's always going to be naysayers on something, especially because with a sequel people compare it to the original.

I'm glad that Indy has to defeat a dark cult, if Mola Ram hadn't been that evil and threatning, it wouldn't have been as exciting to see Indy go up against him.

As for the kids being enslaved, some of the most satisfying scenes in the Indy movies is the children being freed and going home.

I don't know about Hinduism so I can't comment on that.

And as for Willie being anti-feminist, so she's a really girly-girl type and screams when she's in a scary situation, big deal. She's not anti-feminist if people really looked at her character. She's a working woman living in a foreign country in the 1930's, she's not afraid to speak her mind, and while she's intimidated in the film at times, in the end she always comes through for Indy and Short Round.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:52 PM   #117
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Three words:





THE ROCK CRUSHER





That's why I love TOD so freakin' much!!! GO CHIEF GUARD
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Colonel Corey
Three words:





THE ROCK CRUSHER





That's why I love TOD so freakin' much!!! GO CHIEF GUARD

The Giant Thugee?
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:34 AM   #119
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It has its flaws but great scenes also. I love the bridge scene, when Indy gets his leg entangled with the ropes and then raises the katana to the despair of Mola Ram.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #120
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Resurection Metaphor

Because in an interview Lucas said that it was what he always intended, Indy going to hell literally and symbolically and coming back to fight and live another day/year etc. It's like the Spiritual Death/Burial/Resurection of Christ! These are just metaphors that are similar and common among everyone. The witch doctor worshipped Satan, and Indy praised God, so we know Who always wins. Just like Raiders showed us how a man of little faith believes, and the Divine power thereof, Doom showed us the death, Raiders the Burial, and Crusade the Resurrection between Father and Son. Crystal Skull shows us how the sins of the Father pass to three and four generations, and how it affects our failures, and relationships with people, as Henry III (a.k.a.) Mutt Jones, found something Divine Knowledge. The Beings were created by God to watch over us. Possibly never fallen into decay or sin. As they can go into space between the spaces, and are interdimensional. It's all real and metaphors!! Good series though. I recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Storm
Because in an interview Lucas said that it was what he always intended, Indy going to hell literally and symbolically and coming back to fight and live another day/year etc. It's like the Spiritual Death/Burial/Resurection of Christ! These are just metaphors that are similar and common among everyone. The witch doctor worshipped Satan, and Indy praised God, so we know Who always wins. Just like Raiders showed us how a man of little faith believes, and the Divine power thereof, Doom showed us the death, Raiders the Burial, and Crusade the Resurrection between Father and Son. Crystal Skull shows us how the sins of the Father pass to three and four generations, and how it affects our failures, and relationships with people, as Henry III (a.k.a.) Mutt Jones, found something Divine Knowledge. The Beings were created by God to watch over us. Possibly never fallen into decay or sin. As they can go into space between the spaces, and are interdimensional. It's all real and metaphors!! Good series though. I recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.

But, why do we love TOD?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:34 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Michael Storm
Because in an interview Lucas said that it was what he always intended, Indy going to hell literally and symbolically and coming back to fight and live another day/year etc.
I remember Spielberg actually saying "Hell" but don't recall that sentiment coming from Lucas. Where is that from?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Storm
It's like the Spiritual Death/Burial/Resurection of Christ! These are just metaphors that are similar and common among everyone. The witch doctor worshipped Satan, and Indy praised God, so we know Who always wins. Just like Raiders showed us how a man of little faith believes, and the Divine power thereof, Doom showed us the death, Raiders the Burial, and Crusade the Resurrection between Father and Son. Crystal Skull shows us how the sins of the Father pass to three and four generations, and how it affects our failures, and relationships with people, as Henry III (a.k.a.) Mutt Jones, found something Divine Knowledge. The Beings were created by God to watch over us. Possibly never fallen into decay or sin. As they can go into space between the spaces, and are interdimensional. It's all real and metaphors!!
Not a bad thread you've stitched...but what do you mean by "all real and metaphors"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Storm
Good series though. I recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.
Thanks! I'll check it out...what order should I watch it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
But, why do we love TOD?
...yes my precious, why do we love Temple?!
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Old 01-07-2015, 07:38 PM   #123
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Why do I love Temple of Doom?

Temple of Doom was non-stop adventure and dark and different from Raiders. It featured a great opening sequence in China, the thrilling mine cart sequence and the rope bridge scene which I consider the best scene in all Indy movies. Willie, though I agree was not as tough as Marion and clearly more irritating, was still the hottest of Indy's women.

Temple of Doom is special to me because it was also the first Indy movie I watched. I probably have seen it more than the other three. I also have a fond memory of watching it with my grandpa.
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Old 06-15-2015, 03:55 PM   #124
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Love it despite itself

I love Temple of Doom even though I think it's the weakest in the series. Harrison Ford is in top form --- he's in great physical shape and he's really found the role. The music is great, as is the production design. The action sequences are fantastic. I have PLENTY of criticisms and things that I DON'T love, but that is for another forum. So yes, I love Temple of Doom because it's exciting and visually dazzling.
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Old 06-15-2015, 04:51 PM   #125
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Easily my favorite. I tend to lean towards the darker style movies as it is, and Temple nailed it.

Indy is much more of a mercenary/grave robber type with a good heart in this. No cartoonish stuff like LC had. Willie...sucked of course, to much screaming. Short Round was a huge bonus for me. That movie was Indiana Jones for me through my childhood. The heart removal, the danger, overcoming evil to show your good heart in the end.

Still my fav, and the only gear I purchase. I even bought a Penman LC hat from a previous owner recently....well it's with Penman getting rebashed into a temple.

Jacket, shirt, hat, bag, bag strap, and no less than 3 hats in Temple bash. Raiders is good of course, if not great, LC was okay and funny, KOTSC is still Indy to me, but Temple defined him for me. This was the dark side of being out of the classroom, and showed much more to me.
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