Discuss Chapter 15 - Finding The Real Treasure (DVD chapter by chapter discussion)

WeAreGoingToDie

New member
Chapter 15 - Finding The Real Treasure
1:51:07 - 1:55:52

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(description pulled from the Indiana Jones Wiki)
Just as Indy stands up, a giant dark gray saucer is seen taking off from the base of the temple, lifting many pieces of rock and tossing them around or turning them into dust. Finally in a flash of light, the saucer disappears, and the floating pieces of debris drop to the empty valley floor below. Parts of the upper rim keeping out the river water give way, and immediately fill up the void where the temple once stood "Like a broom to their footsteps" states Harold Oxley. Jones beckons Marion to sit on his lap, and both of them hug; When Mutt insists that they should move before it gets dark, Jones gets him to stay by calling him "junior." Mutt, in response, calls Indiana "dad," which confuses Oxley.

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Back at the University, (the presumably reinstated) Dean Charlie Stanforth is running in a white suit; he stops and praises a man who is painting the words "Professor Henry Jones Jr: Associate Dean" on a door's glass, however, Stanforth wants the letters to be much bigger. Indy and Marion get married and Mutt watches gladly as his parents embrace in a lovely kiss. Everyone in the church stands up and cheers, and, just when Mutt is about to snap the first photo...

Chapter Index:
Chapter 1 - Nevada, 1957
Chapter 2 - The Warehouse
Chapter 3 - I Like Ike
Chapter 4 - Of Interest to the Bureau
Chapter 5 - Mutt Williams
Chapter 6 - Nazca, Peru
Chapter 7 - Orellana's Resting Place
Chapter 8 - Old Friends and Enemies
Chapter 9 - A Truth Revealed
Chapter 10 - Family Squabble
Chapter 11 - Big Damn Ants
Chapter 12 - Three Times It Drops
Chapter 13 - City of Gold
Chapter 14 - A Hive Mind

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Once again Please no trolling or bashing of the film. The word "sucks" isn't a valid form of explaining why you hate something. I'd like a friendly discussion for those who enjoy the film and watching it on the small screen.
 

WeAreGoingToDie

New member
I love the effect of the ship rising, there are so many elements to the shot (I recommend watching or rewatching the behind the scenes doc on how this was done). The temple crumbles, the rubble rises with the spinning ship, the ship vanishes, the rubble falls, the cliff walls break and water pours in filling the canyon and creating a lake. All in one shot!!!
It was the biggest visual effects "WOW!" that I had since Sandman's origin scene in Spider-Man 3. :D
 

StoneTriple

New member
Again with the hot & cold for me. I really dig all of it except actually seeing the ship. I thought it would have been better if Indy discovered some sort of metal surface large enough to hint that whatever it was, it was enormous and "not of this world".

Other than that, I dug the rest of it. I think the valley starting to swirl, the debris rising and crashing down on the edge of the river, breaking away gargantuan pieces of land, the valley flooding - all of it - classic Indiana Jones spectacle. Right up there with the fire rising to the sky in Raiders.

The wedding, I thought, was handled perfectly. It's a nice resolve to Indy & Marion's checkered history. They belong together. I also like that it's a small ceremony - not filled with every character from the other three films. That would have been too distracting.
 

WeAreGoingToDie

New member
I agree in that having every character of old would have been a baaad idea. Imagine immigration at the time. No way could an Egyptian (Sallah could very well be dead by 1957) and a man from China so easily get in and out of the US for a wedding during the red scare. And I doubt Indy would invite any former flames. I know I wouldn't invite an ex to my wedding. Unless it was for revenge.
 

James

Well-known member
I'm surprised that so many people had a problem with the saucer. It's clearly intended as a callback to the earlier shot with Indy encountering the mushroom cloud. Both are powerful and iconic images from the era, and do a great job of framing the entire story. The time to be subtle and merely hint at the power would've been during the alien's reveal. But for the big finale, I want to see that bold, striking Ray Harryhausen flying saucer.

I hated the wedding scene in the Saucermen script for two reasons: Indy was marrying a rather generic love interest and the wedding included a bunch of cutesy cameos. Much like the saucer, I'm surprised that so many wanted to see Short Round or Sallah make an appearance. If that had happened, everyone would've complained at how unimaginative it was. Not only is it a bad cliche, but it makes Indy's world suddenly appear a lot smaller. Indiana Jones knows more than three people.

The wedding scene in KOTCS actually took me by surprise, since I hadn't read anything about its filming. It was similar to my experience of watching LC for the first time, and the mixed emotions I felt about seeing Indy as a kid. Ironically, both scenes ended by taking all those strange, uncomfortable feelings and replacing them with that sense of, "Oh, that is absolutely perfect." And in both cases, this was done by cleverly using the fedora.
 

wolfgang

New member
The shot of Indy and the ship is sort like the shot of Ind and the mushroom cloud. It was shocking, cause' at first it felt out-of-place. But I bought it completely!!! Especially by knowing that it was influenced by the 50's sci-fi era.

About the wedding scene, I liked that he kinda settled. To me it was like actually being invited to Indy's wedding. I love when Indy takes Mutt by the arm. And the hat scene was a real treat! WHY?? Mainly because even before knowing that Mutt was his son, I had a feeling he was gonna pass the hat to him. I prepared my mind for it. I thought he was gonna do it in the scene they are discussing who should "stick around." I told myself "Well, here we go....goodbye Indy." And it didn't happen. Then at the chapel I said the same. "Well, here comes the part..." And then BAM! WOW! AWESOME!! I LOVE IT!

Then I notice how the movie kinda leads for that to happen, because throughout the whole movie, Indy losses his hat several times and gets it back. In fact, the very first time he is shown on screen, he is putting his hat on. (His shadow, anyway.). But we see the hat before actually seeing him. And its like, yeah....he NEVER looses it.
I love that hat.
 
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wolfgang

New member
Oh! I was also going to say, that while I think Marion was used poorly in this movie, and even if in my opinion its really not the same character she was in Raiders, I still think that if Indy was going to marry someone, of all teh girls, Marion's his match.
 

Wilhelm

Member
I like that we don't see cameos in the wedding scene. If we see Sallah, Willie or Shorty that would be a fan script. I like that Indy 4 is like an independent movie itself. It's like the original ending of Return Of The Jedi. We only need to see the small ewok celebration and not all the planets in the Special Edition.
 

James

Well-known member
wolfgang said:
I love when Indy takes Mutt by the arm.

I told myself "Well, here we go....goodbye Indy."

To me, the scene where Indy grabs Mutt's arm always looks like something Ford improvised on the spot.

I was surprised that I ended up liking the character of Mutt. I went in expecting to hate him, but Shia obviously took the responsibility very seriously. I had never seen him in a film before, but I'm very grateful he didn't screw things up.

Now having said all of that, when the hat initially rolled to Mutt's feet, I was terrified. I actually heard a small voice from somewhere deep inside my head yelling, "NO! NO! NO!" I assume it was that five-year-old kid that once had the startling, earth-shattering revelation that Indiana Jones and Han Solo were the same guy. Regardless of who's voice it was, he was extremely pleased when Harrison Ford took the hat back and made everything right in the universe once again.

Eventually, someone may get control of the character and subject him to a reboot, remake, or whatever.

But not today. :whip:
 

Morning Bell

New member
The shot of the saucer taking off was well done and the effects are top-notch. It looks great and it's one of my favorite shots in the film.

I thought the ending was great and, similar to the ending to LC, gives you a real sense of resolution and closure. The wedding was a neat idea and the part where Indy snatches his hat away from Mutt is genius. It's one of those moments that just makes you smile and remember that no one will ever replace Indy.

All I can say is: bring on Indy V!:whip:
 

wolfgang

New member
Well, I also think that if it was Harrison improvising it was simply great!!! I agree with Wilhelm that if they had cameos during the wedding it would become like a fan-script. But I still would've loved to see Sean in it. Oh well... ANNNNNNNNND I agree with Morning Bell that the wedding gives a closure feeling like in Last Crusade as well.:whip:
 

James

Well-known member
wolfgang said:
I agree with Morning Bell that the wedding gives a closure feeling like in Last Crusade as well.

It's also pretty true to both the era and B movie genre. For example, the heroes in Earth vs. The Flying Saucers were newlyweds, while Forbidden Planet was originally set to end with a wedding. (This was until someone realized the bride probably wouldn't feel like celebrating, since her dad and home planet had just exploded through the ship's viewport. :eek: )

Most of those old films ended with the hero and heroine (that had usually just met) getting married or at least engaged. Audiences at the time didn't find it a bit unusual. So it's funny that a common question for KOTCS was, "When did they have time to plan an entire wedding?!" :D
 

wolfgang

New member
Well, I don't know about anyone wondering about when did the have time to plan it. Its not something that bothers me, but I if people do ask themselves that, I think they determined it on the adventure itself! Hey, we know each other and we love each other! We have a kid now.....lets do the weepity deepity!
 

Cagefighterkip

New member
Morning Bell said:
The shot of the saucer taking off was well done and the effects are top-notch. It looks great and it's one of my favorite shots in the film.

I thought the ending was great and, similar to the ending to LC, gives you a real sense of resolution and closure. The wedding was a neat idea and the part where Indy snatches his hat away from Mutt is genius. It's one of those moments that just makes you smile and remember that no one will ever replace Indy.

All I can say is: bring on Indy V!:whip:

agreed
:):)
 

the ox

New member
i thought the wedding was OK. it seemed a bit "small" and tacked on ... and i WOULD have a liked at least one face that we knew from indy's past (in addition to marion!). namely - sallah. just would have lifted the scene for me where it felt a little flat. i thought the "squeamish" kiss was a bit lame considering indy's track record! and - yeah, i HATED when the hat rolled to mutt. i felt like it was disrespectful and a lame way to finish and it made me sick ... but then indy grabbed it! i wonder if that was always the idea or if they went back and forth. either way - i'm glad they kept indy as indy. like james said - someday there might be a re-boot but, who know, maybe hollywood will just come up with something NEW.
 

Wilhelm

Member
In one of the first 007 movies "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" the ending was a wedding with Bond throwing his hat at a crying Moneypenny. It's a similar concept for an action movie, but Mrs Bond was murdered in the end.
 
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