The Indy IV hate is getting REALLY old......

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Darth Vile said:
I certainly think it would be interesting to get us both doing a commentary track on the next issue/re-release of a DVD. ;)

Yeah, but you'd need to either record it to be viewed over three consecutive viewings of the film, or strictly, oh-so-strictly, restrict your topics to what's currently on the screen.

But hey, I'd listen.
 

Zorg

New member
[QUOTE="Udvarnoky]But I also think it?s important to remember that Spielberg hasn?t made a movie like this in a long, long time. It could very well be that after his Minority Reports and his Munichs, he?s simply forgotten how to get back into the Indy ?mindset.? I?m actually eagerly awaiting Tintin partially to get some questions answered about Spielberg?s ability to return to these escapist, fun, comic-booky adventure flicks. It could prove to be that Indy4 was simply the stepping stone in getting back to the old grove after years of grit, science fiction, and seriousness. It?s the reason I?d love to see an Indy5. Maybe it took the entirety of Crystal Skull for Spielberg to recover the mindset.[/QUOTE]

As I've been watching KOTCS on DVD for a few times now, I've come agree with this point of view. While I think it's somewhat unfortunate that KOTCS feels like a warm-up leg for the filmmakers, I also think it can be a good thing while considering Indy's possible future.

Spielberg himself was the first one to (kind of) admit that the return to the light escapist fun that is an Indiana Jones movie was to be "the sweet dessert" after many years of his (mostly) more serious films. I always understood that as his way of saying that he knew it wouldn't be easy.

I don't think KOTCS is a disaster at all. It was a positive experience. Surely it could have been better; it's a shame the script wasn't more snappy.
 

Wilhelm

Member
I also agreee with this point of view. I hope that Tintin will be better than KOTCS because Spielberg is again making this type of comic-book adventures, a genre that he didn't make since the Jurassic Park movies. Also he knows all the criticism of KOTCS so he probably didn't want to make the same mistakes (But I love KOTCS with his imperfections: a Spielberg movie is always interesting).
 

aJakeinthePlane

New member
Even w/ its faults Kotcs is a great action movie. Ill take Harrison Ford over vin disel or the rock any day. The most important thing is that it gave us the opportunity to see our hero in all his glory once again. A gift that I will be forever grateful for, and no cgi monkeys or rubber trees can take that away.
 

indyrcks

New member
I don't think the film has been treated well by the fans and certain people,but I think we should all be grateful that we got another Indiana Jones film.
 

Darth Vile

New member
indyrcks said:
I don't think the film has been treated well by the fans and certain people,but I think we should all be grateful that we got another Indiana Jones film.

Playing the Devil's Advocate here... I'm not too sure you can expect people who don't like KOTCS, to "be greatful" (although I like the movie myself).
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
aJakeinthePlane said:
Even w/ its faults Kotcs is a great action movie. Ill take Harrison Ford over vin disel or the rock any day. The most important thing is that it gave us the opportunity to see our hero in all his glory once again. A gift that I will be forever grateful for, and no cgi monkeys or rubber trees can take that away.

I think it's pretty telling about Indy4's perceived quality that we have to be grateful that it's better than an action movie starring Vin Diesel or The Rock. Isn't that something we should take for granted when it comes to what I think a lot of people would call the greatest adventure film series of all time? Like, before this movie I would never have previously imagined such a comparison for an Indiana Jones movie.

If "At least it wasn't Doom or Chronicles of Riddick!" is really the best we fans can come up with for defending this movie, then I think that redefines "damning with faint praise."
 
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DoomTown

Member
I gotta say...I'm with the folks who say "The more they see it ,the more they like it." I've seen the film once in theatres, and about 3 times on DVD now, and it really grows on me everytime I see it. Could it have been better? Yes.
But honestly, when was the last time there was a REAL kick ass part 4 of anything? (Okay, Rocky 4. You got me.) :D
 

Darth Vile

New member
Udvarnoky said:
I think it's pretty telling about Indy4's perceived quality that we have to be grateful that it's better than an action movie starring Vin Diesel or The Rock. Isn't that something we should take for granted when it comes to what I think a lot of people would call the greatest adventure film series of all time? Like, before this movie I would never have previously imagined such a comparison for an Indiana Jones movie.

If "At least it wasn't Doom or Chronicles of Riddick!" is really the best we fans can come up with for defending this movie, then I think that redefines "damning with faint praise.
"

I think there are two separate and distinct elements when comparing/contrasting KOTCS to its competition: -

1) The actual production quality of the movie (whatever side of the fence you may sit)
2) The validity of a 4th Indiana Jones movie and the hunger an audience truly has for, what is in essence, more of the same (which we’ve discussed on many threads)

Personally speaking, I think KOTCS is head and shoulders above any Van Diesel or The Rock movie. I also believe KOTCS to be better than much of the contemporary competition… be it the ‘The Mummy’, ‘The Hulk’, ‘Superman Returns’, ‘National Treasure 1/2’, ‘Pirates of the Caribbean 1-3’ etc. etc (‘Spiderman’ possibly the only exception)… Is that not good enough? In fact, I’m struggling to think of a recent (as in last few years) family orientated action/adventure movie that has KOTCS beat (but I’m open to persuasion). Truth be known, Indiana Jones’ only real competition (of that genre) is himself…

Do I think KOTCS is a “great” movie? No I don’t… but I also think that it not being “great” does not automatically mean its poor/weak or inferior in any way (as that would apply to TOD and TLC equally). Is KOTCS a “great” Indiana Jones movie? I think all 4 movies have their high and low points. Taken as a whole, KOTCS isn’t an exceptional Indy movie (as Raiders still sets the standard as a self contained and exceptional piece of modern popular cinema), but KOTCS does have many moments that can compete with the best of the series.

Therefore, I believe KOTCS to be a very worthy (if flawed in parts) addition to the franchise. To use a James Bond analogy, KOTCS may very well be the 'Thunderball' of the series (and I'm happy with that)... but for the moment it hasn't veered off into 'Octopu*sy', or 'Die Another Day' territory (in fact any Pierce Brosnan JB movie).
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
I think there are two separate and distinct elements when comparing/contrasting KOTCS to its competition: -

1) The actual production quality of the movie (whatever side of the fence you may sit)
2) The validity of a 4th Indiana Jones movie and the hunger an audience truly has for, what is in essence, more of the same (which we’ve discussed on many threads)

So what? These things have nothing to do with the movie's quality.

Darth Vile said:
Personally speaking, I think KOTCS is head and shoulders above any Van Diesel or The Rock movie.

So is the home video of my 5th birthday party.

Darth Vile said:
I also believe KOTCS to be better than much of the contemporary competition… be it the ‘The Mummy’, ‘The Hulk’, ‘Superman Returns’, ‘National Treasure 1/2’, ‘Pirates of the Caribbean 1-3’ etc. etc (‘Spiderman’ possibly the only exception)… Is that not good enough? In fact, I’m struggling to think of a recent (as in last few years) family orientated action/adventure movie that has KOTCS beat (but I’m open to persuasion). Truth be known, Indiana Jones’ only real competition (of that genre) is himself…

There's no accounting for taste, I guess. For me Indy4 is nowhere near the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, and is about on par with The Mummy (I've only seen the first one, against my will).

But as to your question of "Is that not good enough?" Well, is it? If Indy4 is better or on par with most modern adventure movies, then I think that says a lot more about the state of the genre than anything else.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Udvarnoky said:
So what? These things have nothing to do with the movie's quality.

So you think the quality of a movies production has nothing to do with “the movies quality”? That’s too much of an oxymoron to get ny head around at this late time...

Udvarnoky said:
There's no accounting for taste, I guess. For me Indy4 is nowhere near the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

Indeed there isn't... if you find POTC to be a superior piece of cinematic entertainment that is. ;)

Udvarnoky said:
But as to your question of "Is that not good enough?" Well, is it? If Indy4 is better or on par with most modern adventure movies, then I think that says a lot more about the state of the genre than anything else.

What would you have KOTCS compared with but it’s contemporaries? ‘Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze’ perhaps? ‘Savage Islands’? ‘Romancing the Stone’? Or ‘Herbie Goes Banana’s’??? Alternatively, you could just cherry pick the best movies of the last 30 years (for example ‘Star Wars’, ‘Raiders of the Lost Ark’) and compare KOTCS to those. Clearly KOTCS wouldn’t win, but neither would any other movie of the last 30 years. That’s not so much to do with the quality of a generation of movies, but rather the selective sample.
 

Dr.Mirakle32

New member
I own the Blu Ray of the 1999 MUMMY, and despite some of the aged CGI effects, I think it's great fun, and holds up pretty well. Overall a hell of alot better movie than KOTCS. Even a better Indy flick (then again, I was more disspointed by KOTCS than by THE MUMMY 3!)
 

Vance

New member
I think all this comes down to a simple, basic pair of questions...

"You like Crystal Skull, why the hell should I care?"
"I dislike Crystal Skull, why the hell should you care?"

It's been out, made a little green, came out on DVD, got us some kick-ass Legos and some nice comic-book compilations. But, really, It's now done. The market said, in as loud as a voice possible, 'meh' to the heavens on high.

So why the hell is anyone trying to draw battlelines at this point? For the love of all that's Merciful! Are some of you people that sad and pathetic that they're going to define themselves and their relationships on wether or not they enjoyed Indiana Jones and the Search for Lucas's Retirement Fund?

Honestly...
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
"Battle lines?" Get a grip man. The most productive and interesting discussion about a movie tends to come from fans arguing over it. If we all had the same opinions and agreed with each other, it would be pointless and boring. People still debate the merits of movies that are near a century old. Film debate is nothing new, and it ain't going away. If you think the value of a film's discussion is somehow rendered obsolete after 9 months of its release, then it's a good thing you have the option not to read it. Don't forget to gripe and moan at all the modern critics who've offered an analysis of Citizen Kane. That movie's box office was a done deal long ago, why the hell should I care?

Darth Vile said:
So you think the quality of a movies production has nothing to do with “the movies quality”? That’s too much of an oxymoron to get ny head around at this late time...

I'm talking production values here, the type that come from a $185 million budget and some of the best people in the business. This ultimately has no bearing on a movie's quality. If you weren't talking about production values, then color me confused.

Darth Vile said:
Indeed there isn't... if you find POTC to be a superior piece of cinematic entertainment that is. ;)

Oh man, it's not even close.
 
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