Apocalypto (Mel Gibson film)

DaFedora

DaFedora

New member
Anyone wanna comment first toughts about the trailer?

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/apocalypto/large.html


I think we'll gonna have to restrain ourselves from harsh criticism regarding historical mistakes... as far as this movie goes it's a ficticious story within a true story (the downfall of the Mayan empire), but well The Passion of the Christ stirred up a great deal of commotion concerning portrayal, (historical/biblical) accuracy and soforth...

I'm curious though how this story will evolve... and it's acclaim...
Dunno if there are any movie experts who know more on the more 'serious' (not the 30ies or 40ies romanticized films) ancient Middle-American / South-American-themed movies released over the past years...

I'm gonna hang on 'till I see more preview trailers, because this remains puzzling, though the cinematography looks quite 'cosmical' on first sight (the elements).
 
Johan

Johan

Active member
I heard if you slow it down, you can see mel gibson in the trailer. He is one of the tribes people with crazy hair.
 
Jay R. Zay

Jay R. Zay

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it seems possible that mel gibson is trying to talk about things that he doesn't even understand. from what the trailer suggests, it seems unlikely to me that he kept the neutral point of view it takes to tell such a story. if you are disgusted by their way of life in the first place, how can you make a sensible movie of it? human sacrifices are unusual for us, today and here. but they believed in them. it wasn't "bad". they had their ways, we have ours. the trailer doesn't look like gibson is willing to accept that and i'm not going to praise a movie that works this way. this is not like an indiana jones movie where you can forget about realism. it's not like the nazis are evil and indy is good and that's it. it seems that gibson might believe he's on some kind of a christian crusade. christian beliefs are good, ancient mayan beliefs are bad.

of course i don't know the movie. perhaps i'm wrong. but that's the impression the trailer gave me.

PS: now don't tell me i'm in favor of human sacrifices. but it's a belief. beliefs often looks stupid and weird to people who don't share them. mayas look weird to you, christians look weird to me. you can't argue about facts but when it comes to belief, *all of us* run out of reasons. if we wouldn't, it wouldn't be called "belief", right? now you can try to find the truth in facts but thinking that "your belief" is better than "his belief" is nonsense. in 1000 years, people might make movies about christianity and they are all going to laugh about what people believed these days. so what? they'll probably believe in new things. i think it takes a little open-mindedness to accept other beliefs, even if they look weird, but if you aren't open-minded, don't make such a movie.
 
TombReader

TombReader

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Jay R. Zay said:
PS: now don't tell me i'm in favor of human sacrifices...
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I never got that impression from your post,Jay.In fact,I agree with you.It's all about context.In order to get a better understanding of other cultures we have to sometimes set our personal beliefs aside and try and see things from 'their' point of view.Human sacrifice seems so bad to us,but it was an integral part of these people's society and culture.
 
Pale Horse

Pale Horse

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Staff member
Deadlock said:
What do open-mindedness and movies have to do with each other? :rolleyes:
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I am going to have to agree with Deadlock here. Movies are an art form, like a painting or a poem, or anything else. Just because your interpret it one way, doesn't mean that is how the artist intended to reveal it, or how he/she believes in it. Likewise, movie trailers are like reading only the first word of every line in a poem, you won't know what is really being conveyed until you view the whole movie...

but I am sure you all already knew that. :rolleyes:
 
Chris Jones

Chris Jones

New member
I hear Mel does a lot of research for his films, i really liked some of his films. Passion was just plain sad and depressing... I liked Braveheart and The Patriot. Those were good.
 
C

ClintonHammond

Guest
Braveheart made a TRAVESTY of the history of William Wallace

This will be yet another Mel Gibson movie I won't have to waste any money on....
 
Johan

Johan

Active member
Braveheart made a TRAVESTY of the history of William Wallace
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One of those rare occasions I actually agree with you CH. Historically acurate or not, I think he is a decent film maker and I will probably see this movie.
 
Deadlock

Deadlock

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What's with the insistence that period films need to be historically accurate in every aspect?

The "history" books they use in schools are chock full of bias and revisionism... and you guys are complaining about a hollywood movie??? :confused:
 
Jay R. Zay

Jay R. Zay

New member
Pale Horse said:
I am going to have to agree with Deadlock here. Movies are an art form, like a painting or a poem, or anything else.
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expressing a thought publicly always is connected to responsibility. not everything is okay just because you can argue "well we can't be sure what the artist intended to say". if you express a certain thought, you should be ready to take the consequences. the trailer clearly expressed a certain amount of disgust and/or alienation towards this culture. if this wasn't what the movie depicts, i wonder whether gibson knew the trailer or not. we'll see in the movie who of us is right. but if you are dealing with a historical civilization as such, open-mindedness has a lot to do with making a movie about it. if you think these guys are weird freaks, don't make a movie about them. if you refuse to accept their ways as they are, why not make another movie about brave christians or good americans? gibson knows christians and americans so a movie about them will be fine. if he can't accept the mayan traditions, he simply should keep his hands off them.

my humble opinion.
 
R

roundshort

Active member
Actually I am surprised we have not seem someone try and account for what happened to the Maya. While I am by no means an expert, or even really well informed, there is no satisfactery reason as to why the Maya's fell, if they reall fell or even ruled. We know more than we probably want to know about the downfall of the Aztecs and the Inca's,, but the Maya's were a bit more mysterious and seemes to vanish without the help of the Spanish. Was it the Aztecs, or did they fade out or change into the Aztecs, hmm . . . I will see this long before I will even think about Passion of the christ as that is about as interesting to me as watching the highlights of the Cleveland Browns (all 5 minutes of them)
 
C

ClintonHammond

Guest
"period films need to be historically accurate in every aspect"

In the case of Brave-Fart, I'd be happy if it was accurate in ANY respect.... What Mel did was an insult

But I hope he keeps making historical films... that way he'll never get around to making Mad Max 4, and bolloxing that series up!
 
R

roundshort

Active member
ClintonHammond said:
"period films need to be historically accurate in every aspect"

In the case of Brave-Fart, I'd be happy if it was accurate in ANY respect.... What Mel did was an insult

But I hope he keeps making historical films... that way he'll never get around to making Mad Max 4, and bolloxing that series up!
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I think Tina Turner did all the damage they needed to do to keep two great movies from slipping into embarrassment city. Thunder-dumb has to be one of the all time worst movies ever.
 
Deadlock

Deadlock

New member
There doesn't seem to be many details on what the Apocalypto story is actually about. But from an interview with Gibson, it would seem that this story happens several hundred years before the Spainards arrive on the scene (so Christian/Maya conflict is out of the question).

Any depiction of Mayan human sacrificial rituals would be extremely brutal (and Temple of Doom-esque). Now, what real Mayans felt or thought about such things is ENTIRELY SPECULATIVE, one way or the other. Based on what I saw in the trailer, if the story is about a guy who doesn't like the idea of being a human sacrifice... I find that at the very least possible, if not likely. (And that would in no way denigrate the Mayan culture.)
 
Pale Horse

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Deadlock said:
Based on what I saw in the trailer, if the story is about a guy who doesn't like the idea of being a human sacrifice... I find that at the very least possible, if not likely. (And that would in no way denigrate the Mayan culture.)
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That's the funny thing about that trailer. I saw a woman whose baby, and ultimately her, was/were sacrificed, and his retaliation caused him to flee...

Jay R. Zay said:
Not everything is okay just because you can argue "well we can't be sure what the artist intended to say". if you express a certain thought, you should be ready to take the consequences. .
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So true, so true. As you say, there doesn't seem to be enough information in the trailer to think that the file is anything more than a conflict within a culture, and while the superimposed words are misleading, I think I'll reserve judgement until I can either read the screenplay, or see the film.
 
Jay R. Zay

Jay R. Zay

New member
Pale Horse said:
So true, so true. As you say, there doesn't seem to be enough information in the trailer to think that the file is anything more than a conflict within a culture, and while the superimposed words are misleading, I think I'll reserve judgement until I can either read the screenplay, or see the film.
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that's fine with me, i've always claimed i was just talking about the trailer. but if we don't discuss the trailer here, i don't think there is much point in this thread anyway.;)
 
DaFedora

DaFedora

New member
Jay R. Zay said:
now you can try to find the truth in facts but thinking that "your belief" is better than "his belief" is nonsense. in 1000 years, people might make movies about christianity and they are all going to laugh about what people believed these days. so what? they'll probably believe in new things. i think it takes a little open-mindedness to accept other beliefs, even if they look weird, but if you aren't open-minded, don't make such a movie.[/QUOTE=Jay R. Zay/]

Jay, you really think Gibson's become that downright short-sighted and intolerant towards other people's beliefs... even the ones that are now deemed extinct ?

I'm wiling to hear Gibson's own side of the story on this one before I start concluding he's running his own private Christian crusade. It's not that you are a truthfull churchgoer and film your very own interpretation of the Passion of the Christ, that you're radical religious intolerant of any other beliefs than your own...
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