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Old 09-29-2011, 09:11 AM   #76
Montana Smith
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Watching Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace again, I'm struck by how entertaining a well constructed action/stunt film can be.

I don't expect as frenetic a footrace but I know there's tallent out there that COULD deliver a great Indy film.

The decade makes ZERO difference. Raiders and the original trilogy were not constrained by much in the way of period pieces. There are still many locales that exist which still function in ways that haven't changed in a thousand years.

I don't need nor do I want another Indy film where the adventure takes a back seat to an extended meditation on geopolitics. Crystal Skull has set the stage, now lets have a film which focuses on the journey.

Lets see the batteries in Indy's flashlight corrode with saltwater as he goes back to what works...

Screw the 60's...it should exist solely as a touchstone for action and not a vehicle for the story.

The '60s means Indy is also '60s. But it's worse than that. Harry will be 70s. It puts a chain on the high action formula. You could mask his inactivity with a lot of action happening around him, or he could be an invulnerable super-hero, so we don't have to worry about broken bones.

I would be all for Indy picking up the flashlight and heading into some creepy adventure, where you don't know what's coming next. But not to have him at the mercy of a decade where he's a fish out of water. The '50s of KOTCS should have been a backdrop, and not an extra character. Just as the '30s were the backdrop for his three classic adventures.

Not only that, but the '30s were far more appealing. Pushing forward with Harrison is in danger of wringing the character dry in a hopeless cause, while there are still great stories to be told of the younger man, one day, when the time is right, and when there's the perfect actor ready and waiting.

The desperate need to have one more Indy movie with Harrison, before it's too late, is not a valid reason to make Indy V.
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:25 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Not only that, but the '30s were far more appealing. Pushing forward with Harrison is in danger of wringing the character dry in a hopeless cause...
There's always that danger...we're living our own psuedo adventure in that respect. The 30's were, indeed Golden, but I know Indy can be done justice, still. I also know how improbable it is...which is all the more a shame.

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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The desperate need to have one more Indy movie with Harrison, before it's too late, is not a valid reason to make Indy V.
What IS a valid reason? Really? If you have or can see none that's fine. I see the need for redemption, I see the desire for a last hurrah...
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:15 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
What IS a valid reason? Really? If you have or can see none that's fine. I see the need for redemption, I see the desire for a last hurrah...

The story can be the only valid reason. They had plenty of time since TLC to work on what became KOTCS.

Now Spielberg and Ford (and the wannabe Shia) want to push Lucas for one more, and he seems to be dragging his feet. Either he sees the problems ahead (which will be even more compounded than in KOTCS), or he just doesn't have the desire or the inclination.

I don't see the point of what would be one last rushed Indy movie, just to have some more Harrison screen time. It won't be classic. Just a sad end.

They should have milked the holy cow more between 1989 and 2008. They'll be hard pressed to find much milk left in her. What we wish for might end up being a load more bull.




EDIT: On second thoughts, to hell with Indy's legacy. Another film might give us more classic action figures!

Last edited by Montana Smith : 09-29-2011 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:33 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I see the need for redemption, I see the desire for a last hurrah...

Same. I want them to finish off Indy with a movie on par with the original three, a movie which truly showcases Indy being a relic in his own time. It'd basically be Robin & Marion meets Mask of Zorro meets The Gunfighter. If Indy's going out, I don't want a "And they got married and lived happily ever after" ending. No. I want Indy to go out with a boom, not a whimper. To me, KOTCS ended on a whimper and the ending was pure fanservice to a portion of the fanbase. Sure he puts his hat on his head, reclaiming it...But he's married. He's now doomed to a boring rest of his life being married and an associate Dean. That's going out with a whimper. That's like putting a lion in a zoo; It's not the place he belongs. Indy's life is the field and adventuring. Surely he'd get bored. I don't see what's wrong with having him take the role of aging hero like Anthony Hopkins did in Mask of Zorro. Hopkins still had plenty of action scenes and was still a badass.

I picture some young kid pulling Indy out of retirement in search of an artifact, maybe the kid's heard of Indy's reputation and seemingly envisions himself like Indy--the legend. Indy at first seems reluctant but inside knows he's dying a slow death with marriage and fatherhood and teaching. It just isn't who he is. Marion maybe urges him not to go and it puts some sort of wedge between them and she doesn't show up again until later, having followed his trail. Mutt's away at college. Indy wants to show this young kid that he's still got it. That he isn't some irrelevant artifact himself. But there's a twist. Bad guys are looking for this same mystical artifact. It's got to be really shrouded in mystery, something EPIC. Something religious. The bad guys could be the Soviets again, or could be the last remaining Nazis attempting to revive the Third Reich, or a group like James Bond's SPECTRE--Except this group wants this mystical artifact to give them power. Maybe the government is involved somehow and part of Indy's going off on this adventure is the government asks him to--One last favor on his part and this young kid is assigned to work with him.

But the twist is somewhere along the line the kid doesn't respect Indy anymore and thinks he's better than Indy, or he's been working for the enemy all along and using Indy to lead them to the artifact...And he seemingly mortally wounds Indy. Maybe shooting him. Ondy, though mortally wounded, is able to finish off his enemies (except the kid) in a clever, believable way, protect the world. Maybe his death isn't made clear but he disappears into the mists. He doesn't necessarily have to die on screen; he could be seemingly mortally wounded and disappear--a legend, his true fate unknown.

Or, maybe as he's dying, the kid takes Indy's hat--Think of the film The Gunfighter--and either runs off to his own fate, or is killed by Marion at the last minute, who's been following Indy's trail all along, worried about him. He could die in Marion's arms, getting killed doing what he loves.

Think of films like the Mask of Zorro, Gunfighter, Robin & Marion, Carlito's Way, in terms of storyline of an aging/retired hero or expert in his field.

In terms of the tone, think of a Hitchcock film, or a dark, bleak sort of tone like The Misfits (Clark Gable's last film before he died, released in 1961. He died due just after the film finished due to a heart attack after performing all his own stunts out of boredom), or, an eerie, dark Twilight Zone-esque tone.
No more cheeseball antics like LC and KOTCS.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:33 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Same. I want them to finish off Indy with a movie on par with the original three, a movie which truly showcases Indy being a relic in his own time. It'd basically be Robin & Marion meets Mask of Zorro meets The Gunfighter. If Indy's going out, I don't want a "And they got married and lived happily ever after" ending. No. I want Indy to go out with a boom, not a whimper. To me, KOTCS ended on a whimper and the ending was pure fanservice to a portion of the fanbase. Sure he puts his hat on his head, reclaiming it...But he's married. He's now doomed to a boring rest of his life being married and an associate Dean. That's going out with a whimper. That's like putting a lion in a zoo; It's not the place he belongs. Indy's life is the field and adventuring. Surely he'd get bored. I don't see what's wrong with having him take the role of aging hero like Anthony Hopkins did in Mask of Zorro. Hopkins still had plenty of action scenes and was still a badass.

KOTCS was very much the wrong choice of storyline/movie. If it had been intended to film Indy V on the back of it, then the situation could have been saved.

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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I picture some young kid pulling Indy out of retirement in search of an artifact, maybe the kid's heard of Indy's reputation and seemingly envisions himself like Indy--the legend.

The problem here will be that the kid will certainly be Mutt. It would be awkward creating a new 'kid' to fill that role after previously introducing his son. And with Mutt comes again the issue of the heir to the hat.

If Indy V focuses on youth/age/death, then Mutt or Marion will feature. KOTCS has written them into this corner.

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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
In terms of the tone, think of a Hitchcock film, or a dark, bleak sort of tone like The Misfits (Clark Gable's last film before he died, released in 1961. He died due just after the film finished due to a heart attack after performing all his own stunts out of boredom), or, an eerie, dark Twilight Zone-esque tone.
No more cheeseball antics like LC and KOTCS.

That would be the tone to follow if the film hoped to redeem a more mature Indy, as well as working on the redemption required for KOTCS. Yet, in terms of Indiana Jones that would equate to a cult movie, rather than a mass market one. It wouldn't be made.

The prosepct of what's more likely to be made is of the "cheeseball" variety. Something tame and un-controversial in which Indy mentors Mutt in the ways of aggressive archaeology. It would be just as dull as The Mask of Zorro (apart from that scene with Catherine Zeta-Jones...)
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:50 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
(Threads merged, largely because I think this is a great topic, and there's been good stuff said on it previously.)
So, Raiders112390 started *3* seperate threads about Indy in the '60s.
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Actually, the early '60s are more akin to the '30s than the '50s. The '50s were gray, dry, boring--The Ike years. The '30s and early '60s had FDR and JFK--glamorous eras. Women in pillbox hats and gloves, Doo Wop instead of Rock, Kennedy instead of old, gray Eisenhower.
Firstly, from this and your other posts, your perception of the 1950s & '60s is very U.S.-centric and you seem to be stuck on this tunnel-vision view. For instance, travel back in time to the Congo in the early '60s and I doubt you'd find it very glamorous with Doo Wop in the air and women wearing pillbox hats and gloves.

Secondly, "The '50s were gray, dry, boring"? Were you alive at that time? I wasn't either but it was far from a boring decade for America. WW2 was over and people went back to living normal lives in a time of great prosperity. The space race began, passenger jet flights became available, expressways were being built, 'car culture' was born, the civil rights movement was underway, television entered homes, Cinemascope, 3-D movies, the fashion explosion, portable transistor radios, rock'n'roll, pop-art, plastics, etc.
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How about a TOD style adventure without any stops in the U.S., or any real references to western culture.
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Raiders and the original trilogy were not constrained by much in the way of period pieces. There are still many locales that exist which still function in ways that haven't changed in a thousand years.
Agreed with both of you. Apart from "Skull", the U.S. locations are only a tiny fraction of "Raiders" and "Crusade". If there ever will be a 5th film set in the early '60s, we don't need to see Indy stuck in the States like some agent in the FBI. He's a globe-trotting adventurer!
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:25 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
EDIT: On second thoughts, to hell with Indy's legacy.

If Raiders can survive Doom the Cartoon, Crusade the Jones Brigade and Skull's dull lull, let's press on. After all four sequels makes perfect eh?
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:08 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
If Raiders can survive Doom the Cartoon, Crusade the Jones Brigade and Skull's dull lull, let's press on. After all four sequels makes perfect eh?

Yes it does.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:04 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
If Raiders can survive Doom the Cartoon, Crusade the Jones Brigade and Skull's dull lull, let's press on. After all four sequels makes perfect eh?

So you want Indy VI as well? (TOD was a prequel. )

Imagine just how wacky number six couild be!
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:20 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
So you want Indy VI as well?
I'll take as many as they need to get it right...!

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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Imagine just how wacky number six couild be!
They were carefull to warn us about Skull, Lucas, Spielberg and Marshall. So they knew. Now if only they would give us what WE really want.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:54 AM   #86
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Sometimes I wish that we could get a Indiana Jones movie to show us a young Mola Ram sort of like how we see a young, youthful and teenage Indiana Jones in the opening scenes of The Last Cruscade.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:10 AM   #87
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Sometimes I wish that we could get a Indiana Jones movie to show us a young Mola Ram sort of like how we see a young, youthful and teenage Indiana Jones in the opening scenes of The Last Cruscade.
Wasn't that Slumdog Millionaire?
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
The 60s can be easily divided into two eras--The Kennedy/early LBJ years, which were culturally just an extension of the 1950s, and the Beatle era, beginning in 1964. The "Hippie '60s" didn't truly begin until sometime between 1965-1966. Even in 1964, the Beatles were still considered a silly fad (Look at James Bond's comment about listening to the Beatles without earmuffs in 1964's Goldfinger. Even Bond wasn't out of date yet). Look at shows like Mad Men, set in the early-mid 60s; Men still wear hats, dress dressy, etc. I think the early-mid 1960s is still an "Indy friendly" era.
Indiana Jones' world is much larger than the U.S. and your ideas about the '50s & '60s are too American-centric. (Hey, Raiders112390, did you know that "the Beatle era" actually began before the band came to North America in 1964?)

Quoting all of the errors & conflicting things you've said about the '50s & '60s throughout the various Raven threads would take forever to put together. For now, I'll confine it to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I too think we'll get a return to timeless wilderness in an Indy 5 if it's set in the '60s. The early '60s (1960-1963) are a very quiet, transitional period really, culturally speaking. They're sort of like the Truman era--A forgotten period boxed in by two romanticized eras (the Depression 1930s/FDR 40s and Ike/Greaser '50s). They wouldn't be of interest to George. He's never shown any interest in the pop culture of that era. He's a 50s guy.
Right. (According to Raiders112390), George Lucas has NEVER shown any interest in the early '60s even though..."American Graffiti" is set in 1962 and "More American Graffiti" begins in 1964!
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Indiana Jones' world is much larger than the U.S. and your ideas about the '50s & '60s are too American-centric. (Hey, Raiders112390, did you know that "the Beatle era" actually began before the band came to North America in 1964?)

Quoting all of the errors & conflicting things you've said about the '50s & '60s throughout the various Raven threads would take forever to put together. For now, I'll confine it to this:
Right. (According to Raiders112390), George Lucas has NEVER shown any interest in the early '60s even though..."American Graffiti" is set in 1962 and "More American Graffiti" begins in 1964!

Well, I'm an American, so my perception of the 50s and 60s (and other eras) are of course centered on my own country. Indy is an American character. His world might be a very large one, but he is a Yank nonetheless.

Yes, I know The Beatles had a career before 1964. But again, I am talking from an American centered viewpoint.

I don't see why you're being so technical about things. I just don't feel that the "50s" would be as big of a force in an Indy film set in the early '60s. We already went down that road in KOTCS.

And my "errors" and "conflicting things" about the '50s and '60s? I've pretty much championed the idea of an Indy adventure set in the early 1960s since before KOTCS was out. What "errors" about the periods?

I just see the Rock '50s (1953/1954-1959 or so) as different from the Kennedy years, from an American point of view.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:00 PM   #90
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I honestly think they waited a bit too long. Anywhere from '93-98 would've been perfect; he was still in great shape, was at a high point in his career and didn't look as aged as he does now. He's got a bit of a belly now, and he looks ten years older than he really is, thanks to a Calista Flockart.

You hit the nail on the head with your dates. I thought around 93 would have been perfect. To me he started looking pretty old around 1998 whb Six Days Seven Nights was released.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Well, I'm an American, so my perception of the 50s and 60s (and other eras) are of course centered on my own country. Indy is an American character. His world might be a very large one, but he is a Yank nonetheless.
Open your mind, man. Broaden your horizons. Indy is a Yank who travels around the world. You complain about American, '50s culture being overused in Indy 4 but express great interest in seeing Indy within the "glamorous", Kennedy years and continually mention the "Doo Wop era". Do you really want Indy to stay at home in a (hypothetical) new movie?
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I don't see why you're being so technical about things.
To help you with being more concise in your vague interpretation of modern history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I just don't feel that the "50s" would be as big of a force in an Indy film set in the early '60s. We already went down that road in KOTCS.

And my "errors" and "conflicting things" about the '50s and '60s?
---
What "errors" about the periods?

I just see the Rock '50s (1953/1954-1959 or so) as different from the Kennedy years, from an American point of view.

Well, this is the newest example of your conflicting statements right there (with plenty more laying around). You have REPEATEDLY said that there is very little difference between the America of the 1950s and the early '60s...Now you're saying that there *IS* a difference so it's difficult to determine what your definite disposition is, when discussing these decades.

Regarding errors: My above post from 5 months ago (#81) addresses your crazy claims that the 1950s were "gray, dry, boring".

(Not to mention, you started 3 seperate threads about Indy in the '60s! Thankfully, all 3 of them have been merged together.)

===
Anyway, I'd still like to know WHY you said Lucas has never shown any interest in the early 1960s, even though he made 2 movies about that era!
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:45 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
So you want Indy VI as well? (TOD was a prequel.

Indeed, every Indy live-action screen production made after Raiders of the Lost Ark could be considered a prequel, at least in part:
  • Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is set a year before Raiders.
  • Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is mostly set after both Temple and Raiders, but has that prologue set more than two decades before anything else in any of the three movies.
  • The overwhelming majority of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles / The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones (everything but most of the "bookends" segments) is set before everything in those three movies, save for the Last Crusade prologue (and the Corey Carrier segments are set before even that).
  • Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is set before the original "Old Indy" bookends from the Chronicles.

Indiana Jones - the all-prequel franchise!
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:22 PM   #93
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318059
1960 fallout shelter opened in Wisconsin.
I suspect Marion would want one, but Indy would consider it a return to the cave.
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Old 08-11-2015, 05:35 PM   #94
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Trapped on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall...

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Old 08-12-2015, 03:09 PM   #95
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If there was a new Indy set in the 60s it should be set no later than 1964; ideally not after 1962. No Vietnam era.
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Old 08-20-2015, 12:09 PM   #96
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No with the aging Ford the next Indy film will be set in the late 70's now.
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:47 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Túrin Turambar
No with the aging Ford the next Indy film will be set in the late 70's now.

Excellent. Indy can go see Star Wars.
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:24 PM   #98
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"Aliens? Yeah, I never saw that movie." - Paul Reiser, "Mad About You"
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:38 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318059
1960 fallout shelter opened in Wisconsin.
I suspect Marion would want one, but Indy would consider it a return to the cave.

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Trapped on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall...

If there is a God, we will never see an Indy movie set in the 60s.
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Old 10-20-2015, 05:42 PM   #100
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Indy 5 could begin with a prologue set in 1937 starring a young Harrison Ford with a digital face lift like Jeff Bridges (Tron) or Schwarzenegger in the last Terminator movie.

An action scene in the best tradition of Raiders to start the movie that also foreshadows the main mcguffin. Then we could jump to the 60s with Indy retired living alone with Marion when he must recover a great artifact from Ancient History, the greatest challenge of his career.

Larry Kasdan could write the script.
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