The People Vs. George Lucas

TheDarkCrusader

New member
TheDarkCrusader said:
It's like Lucas has a bag of **** and gives it to his fans but they throw it back at him, it's an ongoing cycle. If you ask me, I think Lucas is too nice to his fanbase by feeding them all kinds of SW merchandise to the point where they watch every move he makes.
I hope that comment didn't look like I was bashing Lucas because I wasn't. I was trying to say why waste time and money on something you can't enjoy anymore. All your big movie franchises at some point are going to go stale when the well becomes dry. I have a lot to thank George for, if it weren't for him I wouldn't of had two of my most favorite movie series of all time.
 

Indy's brother

New member
Science Explains Why You Hate George Lucas

escapistmagazine.com has found a new, interesting, and dare I say, valid explanation for the obsessive hatred of Mr. Lucas. They found this article by an online nueroscientist who calls himself Patrick, then sussed out the relevant information from it.

"Every time you recall a memory it may become subtly altered and associated with what ever it was that triggered that old memory. If this trigger happens repeatedly, then you're adding new layer of interpretation that will be recalled automatically with the old memory next time it's called up."

In my humble opinion, Patrick proves his theory thusly:

"When the first abysmal Star Wars Prequel was released, the strong feelings against the film weren't just those of disappointment at a bad movie. If it were that simple, we should also feel the same way about Police Academy 7."
 

MaxPhactor23

New member
Indy's brother said:
escapistmagazine.com has found a new, interesting, and dare I say, valid explanation for the obsessive hatred of Mr. Lucas. They found this article by an online nueroscientist who calls himself Patrick, then sussed out the relevant information from it.



In my humble opinion, Patrick proves his theory thusly:

Very good post. People like to throw out the true fan card from time to time. ?If you were a true fan, you?d like the prequels. You?d feel Crystal Skull was brilliant.? That sort of immature mumbo-jumbo. It could (and should) be argued that, technically speaking, when we?re treated to what some would interpret to be a bad installment of a beloved franchise, the strongest of haters are the ones that actually care more for the films then the lovers. Hence why they so passionately hate it. Thus it could be argued that, in turn, they?re actually the true fans. They expect quality and won?t be pleased with a deteriorating franchise.

There?s this mindset with some Lucas fans that appears to be mindlessly accepting. Some people cannot possibly admit to anything negative in contemporary Lucas. They deny the blatant, that which is not opinion, but fact. "Crystal Skull was made in the vein of the original films." Well?no it wasn?t. Like it or not. "The prequels were made akin to the original Star Wars trilogy." Well?no they weren?t. Like them or not. Most haters can confess to moments of the prequels they enjoyed about them, though perhaps few and far between. Why are lovers so bias? So unfair? So...defensive? It?s this borderline brainwashed mentality, that we should somehow be thankful for even so much as a bad movie. It?s?disturbing. Astounding how some literally refuse to think for themselves.
 

JP Jones

New member
The People v.s. George Lucas

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I hope this is real because it looks really interesting. I'm guessing there could be lots of disscusion on KotCS(or at least I hope there is)
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
Here's the thing, George Lucas directed THX 1138, American Graffiti, and A New Hope; three masterpieces right there. Many of my favorite directors have made at least one film that I disliked, but that doesn't change the fact that those same filmmakers also created masterpiece. Do you know how hard it is to make a masterpiece? It's very hard. And some directors have created less masterpieces than others, but it's quality over quantity. Just because he only directed three masterpieces, doesn't mean he should be overlooked. And not to mention he's partially responsible for the masterpiece that is the Indiana Jones tetralogy. I disliked Episode 1 and 2, and while I enjoy Revenge of the Sith, it certainly is no masterpiece. But George Lucas will forever remain one of my favorite filmmakers, no matter how many bad films he directed, because that will never change the fact that he directed three masterpieces.

By the way, this is not to insult the documentary, I'm sure it will probably be a well made and fair look at all the negative and positive reactions caused by Lucas.
 

JP Jones

New member
I don't dislike anything George has made. All the Star Wars movies are really fun. 4 of them are masterpeices IMO, Ep.4, Ep.5, Ep.6, and yes Ep.3. I hate the fact that he is so hated by what seems like EVERYONE! KotCS was extremely awesome and just because George was affiliated with it, it was ripped to shreds and forever known as a disaster. Now I'm not saying Leave George Alone! but the man's a legend, and he's still got it.
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
JP Jones said:
I don't dislike anything George has made. All the Star Wars movies are really fun. 4 of them are masterpeices IMO, Ep.4, Ep.5, Ep.6, and yes Ep.3. I hate the fact that he is so hated by what seems like EVERYONE! KotCS was extremely awesome and just because George was affiliated with it, it was ripped to shreds and forever known as a disaster. Now I'm not saying Leave George Alone! but the man's a legend, and he's still got it.

I understand completely, I don't consider myself a Star Wars fan but I am a film lover. The massive hatred this man receives is completely undeserved. He is a genius.
 

MaxPhactor23

New member
To be blunt, if there’s one man in cinema that deserves the flaming he gets…its George Lucas. At least that’s my perspective. While I do somewhat pity the fact that his classical works have become somewhat overshadowed by his for more controversial contemporary cartoons, what in the end I’d mostly deem them, tampering with your masterpieces is just not good form. Particularly after you’ve been so scrutinized by no less than those that proclaimed to once adore you on your modern filmmaking, I’d think that a man with a certain amount of respect would stop tampering with his Mona Lisa’s. Apparently I’d regretfully be wrong

There’s a certain breed of fan that’s become so passively obedient that it’s actually somewhat disturbing. You get the impression that George could defecate on a plate, film it for three hours, and they’d call it brilliantly innovative. Not to mention the certain amount of over-the-top defensive behavior you’ll encounter occasionally from the Lucas Gestapo upon even subtle criticisms of something like the Star Wars prequels is nothing short of pathetic. You’d think we just insulted their dad!

But I’ll give George one thing, he’s a master manipulator that rivals his own fictional characters. Palpatine would bow down to his marketing abilities! He's basically the become the Donald Trump of filmmaking, which is what I believe he's more so become. The artist was sadly replaced by the businessman. He’s managed to convince possibly (though I’d like to think otherwise) the majority of fans that this is his world, thus his alterations should subsequently be understood and almost graciously received. Well…I’m not particularly fond of this sycophantic mindset, because the truth of the matter is that this isn’t George’s world, contrary to what he’d have you believe. When art is released to the public and becomes such a significant cultural phenomenon, something akin to Star Wars, the art becomes bigger than the artist. This is something artists must make peace with; they sometimes become outshone by their work. It becomes something bigger, something far more emotionally powerful than any one man will ever truly be. Don't undermine that by trying to claim the credit. It's not about that whatsoever! This has become something more. Something everlasting! Thusly, this is our universe, this is our sandbox to play in. Neither Georges, nor the fans! It belongs to all of us.

So why shouldn’t the fan base critique be shared, heard and valued, and ultimately weigh upon the welfare of the franchise? We gave George his fame and fortune, we shouldn't be sniveling appreciative…shouldn’t it be vice versa? I just never got this feeling that he ever really valued his fans outside of their pocketbooks, something I'm not alone on, which I think birthed a lot of animosity. I think it's blatantly obvious that he compromised the scripts literary merit for the ability to maximize profit with shamelessly inescapable fast food promos and unavoidable action figures (solidifying the “sell-out” moniker), all the more clear when you consider characters like General Grievous and the continuously ongoing list of expendable, yet visually very cool, prequel villains. Fact of the matter is that George Lucas appears to be a money-hungry control freak anymore. Plain and simple! And the defying irony is that in the end no one can be held more responsible for birthing George Lucas’s ego-driven devolution then the fans themselves with their unhealthy deifying of the genius visionary, but regrettably one very subpar writer-director.
 
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avidfilmbuff

New member
MaxPhactor23 said:
To be blunt, if there?s one man in cinema that deserves the flaming he gets?its George Lucas. At least that?s my perspective. While I do somewhat pity the fact that his classical works have become somewhat overshadowed by his for more controversial contemporary cartoons, what in the end I?d mostly deem them, tampering with your masterpieces is just not good form. Particularly after you?ve been so scrutinized by no less than those that proclaimed to once adore you on your modern filmmaking, I?d think that a man with a certain amount of respect would stop tampering with his Mona Lisa?s. Apparently I?d regretfully be wrong?

There?s a certain breed of fan that?s become so passively obedient that it?s actually somewhat disturbing. You get the impression that George could defecate on a plate, film it for three hours, and they?d call it brilliantly innovative. Not to mention the certain amount of over-the-top defensive behavior you?ll encounter occasionally from the Lucas Gestapo upon even subtle criticisms of something like the Star Wars prequels is nothing short of pathetic. You?d think we just insulted their dad!

But I?ll give George one thing, he?s a master manipulator that rivals his own fictional characters. Palpatine would bow down! He?s managed to convince possibly (though I?d like to think otherwise) the majority of fans that this is his world, thus his alterations should subsequently be understood and almost graciously received. Well?I?m not particularly fond of this sycophantic mindset, because the truth of the matter is that this isn?t George?s world, contrary to what he?d have you believe. When art is released to the public and becomes such a significant cultural phenomenon, something akin to Star Wars, the art becomes bigger than the artist. This is something artists must make peace with; they sometimes become outshone by their work. It becomes something bigger, something far more emotionally powerful than any one man will ever truly be. Don't undermine that by trying to claim the credit. It's not about that whatsoever! This has become something more. Thusly, this is our universe, this is our sandbox to play in. Neither Georges, nor the fans! It belongs to all of us. So why shouldn?t the fan base critique be shared, heard and valued, and ultimately weigh upon the welfare of the franchise? We gave George his fame and fortune, we shouldn't be sniveling appreciative?shouldn?t it be vice versa? Fact of the matter is that George Lucas appears to be a control freak. Plain and simple! And the defying irony is that in the end no one can be held more responsible for birthing George Lucas?s ego-driven devolution then the fans themselves with their unhealthy deifying of the genius visionary, but regrettably one very subpar writer-director.

George Lucas is a control freak? Well so was Stanley Kubrick. Now look, as I've said before, I'm a film lover not a fanboy, and I've made it quite clear that I do not enjoy either Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones. But one thing shall never change, George Lucas directed A New Hope, American Graffiti, and THX 1138; three masterpieces right there. It isn't easy to make a masterpiece, let alone three.

I also didn't care for his director's cuts of the original films, but I also didn't enjoy Milos Foreman's director's cut of Amadeus, but should I hate him as well? I never bought the original films on dvd, I still have the original vhs tapes, and am quite satisfied with them.

Many great filmmakers have made at least one bad film. I mean, I love Akira Kurosawa, but I didn't enjoy Kagemusha or Scandal, so should I start to hate Kurosawa now? Should I ignore the fact that Kurosawa directed Ikiru, Seven Samurai, Sanjuro, Yojimbo, Dersu Uzala, or Stray Dog? I didn't like A Clockwork Orange, so should I ignore the fact that Kubrick directed The Shining, 2001, and Dr. Strangelove?

George Lucas is not deserving of any of the hatred he gets. You say you love the original films, well then cherish them and ignore the ones you dislike. Be a little more forgiving toward filmmakers who once made films you enjoy, but have fallen on hard times. Their masterpieces are still there.
 

MaxPhactor23

New member
avidfilmbuff said:
George Lucas is a control freak? Well so was Stanley Kubrick. Now look, as I've said before, I'm a film lover not a fanboy, and I've made it quite clear that I do not enjoy either Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones. But one thing shall never change, George Lucas directed A New Hope, American Graffiti, and THX 1138; three masterpieces right there. It isn't easy to make a masterpiece, let alone three.

I also didn't care for his director's cuts of the original films, but I also didn't enjoy Milos Foreman's director's cut of Amadeus, but should I hate him as well? I never bought the original films on dvd, I still have the original vhs tapes, and am quite satisfied with them.

Many great filmmakers have made at least one bad film. I mean, I love Akira Kurosawa, but I didn't enjoy Kagemusha or Scandal, so should I start to hate Kurosawa now? Should I ignore the fact that Kurosawa directed Ikiru, Seven Samurai, Sanjuro, Yojimbo, Dersu Uzala, or Stray Dog? I didn't like A Clockwork Orange, so should I ignore the fact that Kubrick directed The Shining, 2001, and Dr. Strangelove?

George Lucas is not deserving of any of the hatred he gets. You say you love the original films, well then cherish them and ignore the ones you dislike. Be a little more forgiving toward filmmakers who once made films you enjoy, but have fallen on hard times. Their masterpieces are still there.

Forgive my constant need to edit. I'm ever the writer, always adding more and more.

Well of course no director is flawless, but I don't think that should negate the criticisms either. I’ve really got to disagree on whether or not he justifies such loathing. It could be argued simply that no man that’s unworthy of this much hatred would ever get this much hatred unless it’s just. While I agree that some go a bit too far with their dislike, I don’t think it’s altogether unwarranted. I really don’t think its opinion to state that he’s drastically changed in the way he makes cinema. Some might say that was inevitable considering the gap between the two Star Wars trilogies, which is reasonable, time alters everything, but I don’t think this much change is normal either. I’d equate it as being as drastic as going from being one diehard democrat to one raging republican. He entered the industry with an approach that was intentionally as distant from the Hollywood stigma as possible. Now he’s become arguably the poster boy of Hollywood mass market filmmaking. The coincidence is that his life seemingly parallels the fictional character of Anakin Skywalker, when he went into the world very clearly wanting to be one thing and then fell to what he once deemed the “dark side,” metaphorically speaking. He himself has made his own commentaries and comparisons on this in documentaries and the underlying irony of how he entered very anti-establishment and came out basically the Enron of the entertainment industry.

I don’t really think it’s as easy as just ignoring the ones you dislike either, considering they tend to have what some would consider this very detrimental effect on the films you do love. In the case of Star Wars it's especially bad considering George and his always tampering with the classics. It's damned near impossible to ignore the new trilogy! I think people repeatedly return to critique the prequels for the very same reason people always return to praise cinema they admire. They’re fans in a much broader sense of the word. Some hate the prequels, but they only hate them so passionately because they’re Star Wars fans concerned for the wellfare and quality of the series. One might argue that this is every bit as much of true fandom as undying praise. You’ve got these people who’ve seemingly lost all touches with reality, take the overweight Jedi Knight wannabe at the closing of the trailer, that love to play the ever juvenile true fan card. I’ve always abhorred that “I’m better then you” playground tactic. Well, what really makes a fan? I don’t think it’s this checklist of every film in a franchise, whoever marks off the complete list as being enjoyable wins the title of ultimate fan. The foreigner who's subtitled as saying that ones strong dislike of the prequels ultimately means that those people are arguably the better (at the least more productive) fans of the series...is absolutely right! Thoughtless obedience does not equate to true fan whatsoever! You don’t need to enjoy the prequel trilogy, you don’t even have to like the artist, to be a true Star Wars fan, and I find that something far more encouraging.
 
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avidfilmbuff

New member
MaxPhactor23 said:
Forgive my constant need to edit. I'm ever the writer, always adding more and more.

Well of course no director is flawless, but I don't think that should negate the criticisms either. I?ve really got to disagree on whether or not he justifies such loathing. It could be argued simply that no man that?s unworthy of this much hatred would ever get this much hatred unless it?s just. While I agree that some go a bit too far with their dislike, I don?t think it?s altogether unwarranted. I really don?t think its opinion to state that he?s drastically changed in the way he makes cinema. Some might say that was inevitable considering the gap between the two Star Wars trilogies, which is reasonable, time alters everything, but I don?t think this much change is normal either. I?d equate it as being as drastic as going from being one diehard democrat to one raging republican. He entered the industry with an approach that was intentionally as distant from the Hollywood stigma as possible. Now he?s become arguably the poster boy of Hollywood mass market filmmaking. The coincidence is that his life seemingly parallels the fictional character of Anakin Skywalker, when he went into the world very clearly wanting to be one thing and then fell to what he once deemed the ?dark side,? metaphorically speaking. He himself has made his own commentaries and comparisons on this in documentaries and the underlying irony of how he entered very anti-establishment and came out basically the Enron of the entertainment industry.

I don?t really think it?s as easy as just ignoring the ones you dislike either, considering they tend to have what some would consider this very detrimental effect on the films you do love. In the case of Star Wars it's especially bad considering George and his always tampering with the classics. It's damned near impossible to ignore the new trilogy! I think people repeatedly return to critique the prequels for the very same reason people always return to praise cinema they admire. They?re fans in a much broader sense of the word. Some hate the prequels, but they only hate them so passionately because they?re Star Wars fans concerned for the wellfare and quality of the series. One might argue that this is every bit as much of true fandom as undying praise. You?ve got these people who?ve seemingly lost all touches with reality, take the overweight Jedi Knight wannabe at the closing of the trailer, that love to play the ever juvenile true fan card. I?ve always abhorred that ?I?m better then you? playground tactic. Well, what really makes a fan? I don?t think it?s this checklist of every film in a franchise, whoever marks off the complete list as being enjoyable wins the title of ultimate fan. The foreigner who's subtitled as saying that ones strong dislike of the prequels ultimately means that those people are arguably the better (at the least more productive) fans of the series...is absolutely right! Thoughtless obedience does not equate to true fan whatsoever! You don?t need to enjoy the prequel trilogy, you don?t even have to like the artist, to be a true Star Wars fan, and I find that something far more encouraging.

I agree that the idea that you must do certain things in order to prove that you enjoy something is completely ridiculous. I mentioned above that I disliked, and that is mostly considered sacrilegious in the film world. Why? I still love Kubrick, I just don't think that particular film was well done. Do I have to give my film lover card? So in this aspect, I agree with you.

But come on, you can't ignore the prequels? There are plenty of films I dislike that I have successfully ignored.

And of course, there is nothing wrong with criticizing George Lucas, but the hatred he receives is beyond ridiculous. I mean, they act like George owes them something. Here's what happened, George made a film, people enjoyed it, and that's it, there's no legally binding contract between the fans and Lucas. The fans just overreacted to Episode 1. But anyway, like I said, I'm a film lover not a Star Wars fans. But the behavior that the critics have been displaying, is truly abnormal. People should not act like this.
 

avidfilmbuff

New member
Uhh, I meant to write above that I disliked A Clockwork Orange, and instead I forgot to write a title. I must not be feeling well.
 

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Just a little off the topic but Kubrick's "Paths of Glory" is one that I love to put on during my "war" marathons.
 

MaxPhactor23

New member
avidfilmbuff said:
I agree that the idea that you must do certain things in order to prove that you enjoy something is completely ridiculous. I mentioned above that I disliked, and that is mostly considered sacrilegious in the film world. Why? I still love Kubrick, I just don't think that particular film was well done. Do I have to give my film lover card? So in this aspect, I agree with you.

But come on, you can't ignore the prequels? There are plenty of films I dislike that I have successfully ignored.

And of course, there is nothing wrong with criticizing George Lucas, but the hatred he receives is beyond ridiculous. I mean, they act like George owes them something. Here's what happened, George made a film, people enjoyed it, and that's it, there's no legally binding contract between the fans and Lucas. The fans just overreacted to Episode 1. But anyway, like I said, I'm a film lover not a Star Wars fans. But the behavior that the critics have been displaying, is truly abnormal. People should not act like this.

You’re absolutely right, some of his critics do go absolutely way too far, borderline humorously so, that it’s outright embarrassing. I would say the same for some Lucas defenders too though. Any sort of extremism is very silly really. I can’t deny that when I saw George getting death threats for Jar Jar Binks, I sympathized. I’ve made dark comedy jokes about his demise, but nothing actually legit. But these people are being genuinely legitimate; they really wanted him to die after Phantom Menace. It’s all a bit overdramatic. I get that Star Wars meant a lot to people and that nostalgia can breed a lot of animosity when you tamper with things later, but lordy…they can go far…

But again, I can’t say it’s wholeheartedly unjustified either. I am admittedly a Lucas criticizer these days, something I’m not ashamed to say. I just wouldn’t classify myself as one of those extremists. I try to rationalize and play fair. :)
 
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