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Old 10-12-2016, 07:04 PM   #26
Toht's Arm
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Just so people know (and don't think some dude copy+ pasted), I wrote an article on Den of Geek based on my original post in this thread.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/i...pear-in-indy-5
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:46 AM   #27
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I still haven't heard a better premise for Indy V than bringing back the haunted castle concept. It's a good fit for Indy, it would cause way less controversy than aliens, it hangs nicely on a pulp fiction hook as Lucas insists (Hammer horror), it doesn't clash with the time period (Hammer was certainly active in the 50s/60s), it promises a return to the spookiness of the first two films, it gets us out of North America, and it doesn't call to mind action sequences that would seem preposterous for a guy in his 70s.

The Fountain of Youth and the Bermuda Triangle are too recently covered by Pirates of the Caribbean and don't sufficiently liberate us from North America after the previous film, Atlantis wouldn't feel fresh enough coming off of a fourth installment that was already about a lost city, and Excalibur would be the second Arthurian legend covered by the series.

The only real concern would be that it might make the movie too claustrophobic, but Temple is a good template here, as it succeeded in delivering some striking location work before pulling us underground. You would just need to front-load the exotic locales.

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Old 10-21-2016, 08:20 PM   #28
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Yeah, I think I agree. We also haven't seen a proper haunted castle movie in a while, no?

Plus maybe Disney would like the idea of sprucing up their haunted mansion to tie in with the film...
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:33 AM   #29
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I also like the haunted castle idea, and setting the story in England or Scotland, they could even explore Henry Jones Sr's background to make Indy connect with his relatives.
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Old 10-22-2016, 01:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones VII
I also like the haunted castle idea, and setting the story in England or Scotland, they could even explore Henry Jones Sr's background to make Indy connect with his relatives.

Though Europe is fairly well-trod territory at this point, even including a sequence of 15-20 minutes at a castle. I'm particularly skeptical about how much England or Scotland would feel like an appropriate place to set most of an Indiana Jones adventure.

However, there are other castles; Japan came up in a more Monkey King-focused thread (as did a lot of talk about Africa, for that matter).
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:01 AM   #31
Raiders112390
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Script elements you'd like to see recycled in Indy V?

What are elements from any past script you'd love to see make the cut in Indy V?

For me:
-Dogfight (City of Gods script)
-Bad guy with mechanical arm (idea for Toht in Raiders)
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:38 AM   #32
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I've said my piece on the Monkey King scripts potential merits here.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:40 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
What are elements from any past script you'd love to see make the cut in Indy V?

For me:
-Dogfight (City of Gods script)
-Bad guy with mechanical arm (idea for Toht in Raiders)

I have always felt the cut of Toht's mechanical arm was a great decision. It would have been to unbelievable for a movie set in the 30's. The German flying wing was on the right side of believable for me, the mechanical arm would have pushed Raiders too far in the direction of science fiction. For me it would work fine in Star Wars but not an Indiana Jones film.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
What are elements from any past script you'd love to see make the cut in Indy V?

For me:
-Dogfight (City of Gods script)
-Bad guy with mechanical arm (idea for Toht in Raiders)
I'd rather they write an original script, to be completely honest, but they can recycle locations from certain scripts, like sub-Saharan Africa (Monkey King) and Southeast Asia (Saucermen from Mars). And to agree with dr.jones1986, the baddie with a mechanical arm is far-fetched to say the least. One of the Indy novels (Mystery of Mount Sinai) featured a character based off this idea, Helmut von Mephisto, and it was the most stupid things I've ever read. It started sounding like Star Wars at a certain point.

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Old 07-15-2018, 02:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
I'd rather they write an original script, to be completely honest, but they can recycle locations from certain scripts, like sub-Saharan Africa (Monkey King) and Southeast Asia (Saucermen from Mars). And to agree with dr.jones1986, the baddie with a mechanical arm is far-fetched to say the least. One of the Indy novels (Mystery of Mount Sinai) featured a character based off this idea, Helmut von Mephisto, and it was the most stupid things I've ever read. It started sounding like Star Wars at a certain point.

Thing is every Indy script borrows from unused drafts. Great chunks of TOD come from stuff left out of a Raiders. I believe there are sequences from LC that come from other unused drafts.

I think, if Harrison's segment is set in the 60s, a villain with a mechanical arm would be a great homage to the freakazoids James Bond faced. It would just have to be done right and not cartoonish. Make it like, frightening. Like Toht's burned hand.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Thing is every Indy script borrows from unused drafts. Great chunks of TOD come from stuff left out of a Raiders. I believe there are sequences from LC that come from other unused drafts.

I think, if Harrison's segment is set in the 60s, a villain with a mechanical arm would be a great homage to the freakazoids James Bond faced. It would just have to be done right and not cartoonish. Make it like, frightening. Like Toht's burned hand.
Thing is, at this point there's only been presumably one unused draft for Indy 5 (Koepp's, and that one is probably going to be Indy 5 anyways, assuming that Kasdan is only making minor cosmetic changes), and besides, a lot of the elements from the drafts have already been used. I'll stick to my guns and say that the new script should be original, but a Soviet with a mechanical arm (as long as it didn't shoot lightning out of it like that stupid Rinzler novel) would be epic, especially in some lush Caribbean setting.
Edit: How about something like the Winter Soldier's arm, but a little more mechanical looking and stripped down?

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Old 07-21-2018, 12:15 PM   #37
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Back when they were trying to write Indy 4, one of the ideas that Spielberg pitched to Lucas to get him off his aliens idea was to have Indy in South America dueling Nazis who had escaped there after World War II. Lucas of course nixed the idea. As far as we know, there was never an actual script written for that premise but I always thought it was an idea worth revisiting.

Obviously, there would have to be a lot of historical taken with the story but it would accomplish a couple of things:

1. Nazis-If we've learned anything about the Indy movies, the Nazis make the best baddies. It's like the Batman and The Joker, they deserve each other. Having Indy have to deal with them again in a Latin American setting sounds intriguing.

2. It gives Spielberg a chance to get creative with villains and set pieces. We have only learned recently the lengths the Nazis went in Argentina with what they built there.

One problem I see is that we've already seen Indy in South America in 2 movies. Do we really want to see him back there again? It's possible that South American Archaeology was Indy's area of expertise when he was getting his degree.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seasider
Back when they were trying to write Indy 4, one of the ideas that Spielberg pitched to Lucas to get him off his aliens idea was to have Indy in South America dueling Nazis who had escaped there after World War II. Lucas of course nixed the idea. As far as we know, there was never an actual script written for that premise but I always thought it was an idea worth revisiting.

I didn't previously think revisiting the Nazis was worth doing, but I think there's merit there now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasider
Obviously, there would have to be a lot of historical taken with the story but it would accomplish a couple of things:
[...]
One problem I see is that we've already seen Indy in South America in 2 movies. Do we really want to see him back there again? It's possible that South American Archaeology was Indy's area of expertise when he was getting his degree.

I definitely don't want to see Indy spending much time in the Americas again, North or South, but it's the sort of thing that perhaps they could cheat, the way they've habitually blended legends of different provenance before, with varying degrees of success and truth-stretching: Egyptian and Judaic; a Kali cult plus Aztec sacrifice and voodoo; early Christian and the Crusades; and pre-Colombian, El Dorado, and aliens. Fate of Atlantis fudged the alleged location of Atlantis with a tenfold error, placing it in the Mediterranean rather than the Atlantic because it made for a better story.

So, maybe the rumors about Nazis in South America are a misdirect, just enough to draw attention from where they really are? But that would have the film playing with twentieth century facts in a pretty broad way that feels, to me, dicey. Are the Nazis hiding out in South Africa? Australia? Siberia? A minor string of islands somewhere in Indonesia or Oceania?
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Are the Nazis hiding out in South Africa? Australia? Siberia? A minor string of islands somewhere in Indonesia or Oceania?

Or Japan, teaming up with old allies from the war. It's a stretch but would allow homage to You Only Live Twice.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I didn't previously think revisiting the Nazis was worth doing, but I think there's merit there now.



I definitely don't want to see Indy spending much time in the Americas again, North or South, but it's the sort of thing that perhaps they could cheat, the way they've habitually blended legends of different provenance before, with varying degrees of success and truth-stretching: Egyptian and Judaic; a Kali cult plus Aztec sacrifice and voodoo; early Christian and the Crusades; and pre-Colombian, El Dorado, and aliens. Fate of Atlantis fudged the alleged location of Atlantis with a tenfold error, placing it in the Mediterranean rather than the Atlantic because it made for a better story.

So, maybe the rumors about Nazis in South America are a misdirect, just enough to draw attention from where they really are? But that would have the film playing with twentieth century facts in a pretty broad way that feels, to me, dicey. Are the Nazis hiding out in South Africa? Australia? Siberia? A minor string of islands somewhere in Indonesia or Oceania?

What made you change your mind as far as finding merit there now?

I agree they made great villains in Raiders and Crusade but I feel using them during the Cold War when there were so many other deplorable regimes that were actually in power at that time doesn't make sense. Disney would never use communist China even though they would make sense during the 60's because of Disney's dependence on the Chinese market.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:47 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
What made you change your mind as far as finding merit there now?

I agree they made great villains in Raiders and Crusade but I feel using them during the Cold War when there were so many other deplorable regimes that were actually in power at that time doesn't make sense. Disney would never use communist China even though they would make sense during the 60's because of Disney's dependence on the Chinese market.
Yeah...this sort of leads into my problem when someone suggests that we simply "bring the Nazis back". By the late 1950s into the early 1960s, the number of active ex-Nazis was certainly substantial, but not enough to justify an actual threat. And at this point it's like flogging a dead horse, not to mention the fact that Steven has felt extremely uncomfortable using the Nazis as villains again after researching for Schindler's List, and I can't say I blame him. The atrocities they committed during the war were nothing short of terrifying on a massive scale.
And did everybody just forget that there was a megastate known as the Soviet Union up until 1991? They provide the perfect templates for villains. An ultra-modern, harsh, extremely rational and tactical fighting force that viciously eliminated any opposition standing in its way, while still being quite unlikable is the perfect enemy for Indiana Jones. And reintroducing them as villains can rectify Crystal Skull constantly referring to them as "Russians" (though many Ukranians, Tajiks, Georgians, and Belorussians I know would most likely disagree), while also giving them the threatening bent they sometimes (though not always) lacked in the last installment.
As for Communist China as the villain, well, yeah, that's not happening. America itself is so tightly tied to the PRC economically that even U.S. politicians refuse to call out the various civil rights abuses going on over there, including the suspected internment of Chinese Muslims in concentration camps. But hey, at least they buy Disney movies!
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:58 PM   #42
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I actually want an Indy set mostly in the U.S.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I actually want an Indy set mostly in the U.S.
Eh, that's a risky move for a big film like this. Comics/Novels/made-for-TV movies I could see, but one of the main aspects of every Indy movie is that there's a lot of travel (or at least hopping from one country to another). I suppose keeping it inside the continental U.S. would be an interesting stylistic subversion, but it has the possibility of alienating and boring a wider audience. The whole "globetrotting, adventurous archaeologist" side of Indy kind of dies out when he's pretty much travelling in his own backyard, no matter how wide that backyard may be.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:55 PM   #44
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Personally, I feel that unless the haunted castle bears some sort of archaeological significance, it shouldn't belong in an Indiana Jones film, as cool as it is...and it is cool. It certainly contains the macabre and creepiness of the first two movies, but aside from that, it feels out of place for Indy, even when taking into account George's ideas pontificated in the Raiders Story Conference. Not all of his ideas are that great.

Aside from the biplane fight - which, while a bit unrealistic, was in my opinion the most exciting and suspensful scene in City of the Gods script - I don't think any of these ideas should be resurrected.

A completely fresh and original script sounds optimal to me, because it allows for maximum creative freedom.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:13 AM   #45
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I definitely am for the museum chase scene and the rooftop fight scene, they could work well and fit perfectly. The biplane fight scene I can imagine with a younger Indy in a flashback perhaps?

The haunted castle setting, well I don't know... only if they can incorporate a McGuffin and it works well. They did use castles in the series Relic Hunters, so it's not exactly without example. Mind you I do think the best part of the Monkey King draft was indeed the beginning with the haunted castle...
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Old 08-15-2018, 01:38 PM   #46
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Archaeology isn't limited to ancient or even pre-modern artifacts; there's no reason a haunted castle scenario couldn't involve a significant relic of one kind or another.
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Old 08-15-2018, 02:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Archaeology isn't limited to ancient or even pre-modern artifacts; there's no reason a haunted castle scenario couldn't involve a significant relic of one kind or another.
That I understand, but the sequence in the Monkey King didn't have anything to do with an archaeological relic. It was a fun sequence, truth be told, but it felt very out-of-place regardless, almost as if Indy had just found himself in a Scooby-Doo episode. That's why I don't believe the haunted castle sequence, if left mostly unaltered, belongs in an Indiana Jones movie. But my mind is open if the scene is adjusted to suit his occupation.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:03 PM   #48
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That I understand, but the sequence in the Monkey King didn't have anything to do with an archaeological relic. It was a fun sequence, truth be told, but it felt very out-of-place regardless, almost as if Indy had just found himself in a Scooby-Doo episode. That's why I don't believe the haunted castle sequence, if left mostly unaltered, belongs in an Indiana Jones movie. But my mind is open if the scene is adjusted to suit his occupation.

Well, sure. I wouldn't assume it would be simply cut-and-pasted into a new script. And, yes, there's a touch of Scooby Doo about it.

As I've suggested elsewhere, there's no need for the castle to remain in Scotland. It could even be in Japan.
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:07 AM   #49
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Japan does have some terrifying ghost stories, Himeji Castle would be perfect for example. But Europe has some nice haunted castles too. (My country has a lot of castles as well, been to a few of them.)

All it needs is a good McGuffin.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:59 PM   #50
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Well, sure. I wouldn't assume it would be simply cut-and-pasted into a new script. And, yes, there's a touch of Scooby Doo about it.

As I've suggested elsewhere, there's no need for the castle to remain in Scotland. It could even be in Japan.
That's actually a really good idea. I didn't even think of that. It would be especially helpful if they wanted to explore a part of the world that the movies haven't delved into previously, and it could really allow the writers to get creative. I guess it didn't occur to me that castles weren't exclusively European.
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