Sons of Darkness: 12 Years Later

Rob Smith

New member
Hi there Indyfans,

funny that my script written over 12 years ago shares elements with the new film... skull quest... Indy's son... Soviet villain... return of Marion...

Heck, even the LA Times noticed a similarity:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/movies/la-indytimeline3oct03,0,4413222.story

Now, I can't say for certain if my script Sons of Darkness influenced the new Indy film or not... but I think the circumstantial evidence alone would attract a lawyer eager to sue Lucasfilm... because they either borrowed from my script or it's a colossal coincidence and I just happened to plug into George's stream of consciousness back in 95 when I first sat down to write SOD.

12 years ago Lucasfilm wanted me to sign over the rights to my screenplay and in exchange they wouldn't sue me. I refused to sign after talking to a lawyer and explained to Lucasfilm that if they wanted to control my script then they would have to buy it. Months later it all went away and everybody got on with their lives.

The script itself, while a superior idea by far (Indy and aliens, c'mon!), is a work of fanfiction, and I wrote it with the best of intentions and from my heart and soul. I was passionate about the material... not about deceiving Indydom.

I could be a royal pain about this and milk it for all it's worth... but I don't want that kind of attention... and I don't what George's money either... I just wanted the man to read my script and give me his honest opinion. And it seems, on the surface anyway, he did read it.

It was such a benign stunt I pulled back in 96 but the reaction to it was so hostile -- nasty feedback, threats of lawsuits, jail, and calls from the RCMP... all over some Indy spec script written by some dude up in Canada.

There was, however, on occasion, high praise for my screenplay and the belief that it was indeed the newest Indy film. After 12 years, here's what one of my fans wrote:

I remember the first time that I read the Sons of Darkness script: it was so good that I was enthusiastically telling other people about it and was even practically praying "Dear Lord, PLEASE let this be the next Indy movie!" If there was to be another Indy movie then I thought the post-war period would be when to set it and I thought your script conveyed that quality perfectly. Putting Indy in Qumran when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered was a particularly great touch, and Vladimirov was a classic Indy-style villain.

If nothing else, I think that years from now your Sons of Darkness script will be regarded as at least very prescient, if not downright prophetic, in the light of how Kingdom of the Crystal Skull turned out (which I might go see again tomorrow).

For me, I think the new film got it all wrong and my script would have made a much better film.

But what the frak do I know, right? I'm just a fanboy.

Cheers!

Rob Smith

Toronto, Canada

Script link:

http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/indianajones-sons_smith2-97alt.htm
 

Rob Smith

New member
For Your Consideration

Call me crazy, Indyfans... but I'm almost positive Lucas pays homage to my Sons of Darkness screenplay -- from the very first shot.

You're all familiar with how Indy movies begin:

FROM THE OLD PARAMOUNT LOGO,

MATCH DISSOLVE TO:

A mountain peak...

That was the opening of Raiders, and this motif was also used in Doom and Crusade.

Well, I carried over that motif into my screenplay written in 96:

FROM THE OLD PARAMOUNT LOGO,

MATCH DISSOLVE TO:

A mound of sand...

Now, if you've all seen the new movie (*spoilers*) then you know it starts this way... match dissolve to a mound of sand, which a gofer emerges from seconds later...

Of all the things to match dissolve to in the Indy universe... Lucas chose a mound of sand. Why?

Indydom... am I crazy? Or is Lucas ****ing with me? I mean... perhaps in his subtle way he's paying tribute to my script because of our sordid history, and maybe for the simple fact that my script shares so many elements with the new film... Skull quest... Indy's son... Soviet villain... return of Marion...

In fact, at the end of the new movie, where the Soviet baddie returns the alien skull and it magically stays perched atop its skeleton, and then the alien reincarnates, is right out of my screenplay, which also uses a skull as the Mcguffin -- in my case the skull is the remains of the unclean son (Satan's earthly offspring), and is made flesh again by the return of the missing skull -- it's actually a cool little legend I created for my script, which mixes in Noah's Ark as well. You fans should check out the script just for ****s and giggles.

Script links:

Second draft 97 (reposted 97/2003): http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/indianajones-sons_smith2-97alt.htm

Original draft 96 (posted May 26, 96): http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/IndianaJones4.txt

Very little changed between the drafts. Just gave it a good polish in 97.


Anyhoo, I hope I'm not boring all of you with this... I'm just a little beside myself... and a little ticked off as well that after all these years I discover Lucas MAY have just liked what I wrote, so much so that he incorporated elements from my script into his new movie. I'm flattered. But truth be told... it's a little bitter-sweet also.

There are other moments in the new movie which recall SOD... the diner scene where Indy and his long-lost son, Mutt, are bickering and Mutt scolds Indy for disrespecting his mother -- there's a scene like that in my script as well.

Then there's the scorpion scene -- Mutt freaks out about a big scorpion crawling on him and Indy assures Mutt that it's the little ones he has to be worried about... well, there's a similar scene in my script also.

There are others scenes too...

I don't know... it could all be just a freaky coincidence... but that match dissolve to the mound of sand is way too coincidental...

Is Lucas paying homage to my script... is he rubbing my nose in it... or am I completely delusional and should seek professional help?

But... I like to think he's paying homage... because he recognized the sincerity of my screenplay and the blossoming talent. Anyway... that's what I like to think.

Cheers!

Rob Smith

Toronto, Canada
 

TheLastCrusader

Active member
If I were you, I'd contact a lawyer. If he says you got a case, then you got a case. The law is the law. This is all pretty hard to believe though.
 
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agentsands77

New member
Rob Smith said:
The script itself, while a superior idea by far (Indy and aliens, c'mon!), is a work of fanfiction, and I wrote it with the best of intentions and from my heart and soul.
Execution aside, I prefer the core story of KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL to your core storyline, to be honest.

Now I read SONS OF DARKNESS back in the day, and when watching KINGDOM, noticed more than a few similarities, but I'm not sure it's anything more than coincidence.
 
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CasualJeff

New member
That's pretty interesting. And it's awesome that you're posting here, man!

For what it's worth, Frank Darabont is the one who claims credit for bringing back Marion...and with how many writers worked on the KotCS script, who knows who came up with the idea of Indy having a son? David Koepp pretty much read all of the rejected Indy IV scripts and threw together whatever scenes he thought worked. Maybe your script got thrown into the mix as well?

Then again, it could all be a coincidence. The reason Lucasfilm's lawyers threatened to sue is to prevent exactly what you're alluding to here. Aspiring writers shop storylines all the time, and then cry foul the second anything remotely similar shows up in a movie.
 

Raiders of Clay

New member
Wow! Thats a crazy story dude. If you did have something to do with Lucas putting those sceens in the movie I say, GREAT IDEA! Those were some great parts.:D Anyway, If this is true, get a lawyer.
 

MolaRam2

New member
The plot about Satan's son sounds way more awesome than the plot about stereotypical aliens we got in KOTCS.

Anyway, why did Lucasfilm threaten to sue in the first place? There's plenty of fan fiction out there, why did they single out yours?

I'll give your script a look sometime and let you know what I think.
 
Hate to say it but if you try to sue Lucas you will lose since you basically used his trademarks in your script. He could turn around and counter-sue for copyright infringement and he will win.
 

James

Well-known member
MolaRam2 said:
Anyway, why did Lucasfilm threaten to sue in the first place? There's plenty of fan fiction out there, why did they single out yours?

I believe it was because the fan fiction was originally presented as if it were a legitimate script. It was one of the first Indy 4 "scripts" to be posted online, way back in 1996. But there was also a story about how it had been obtained by a courier or something. I really don't remember the full details.

To be honest, I'm not sure there's much of a case here. The idea of Marion and Indy having a son is a pretty obvious setup. And if you give Indy a son, it's pretty natural to expect them to have conflicts. The fact that adding a son was pretty common in the films that Lucas claims to be borrowing from doesn't help your case, either. (The fourth Tarzan movie was also the one where he got a son.)

However, I did really love the scorpion scene that was in "Sons". I'm not sure I'd consider the brief scene in KOTCS to have been inspired by it, but the scene was memorable enough that I still remember it a decade later.

As for the skull and re-animated skeleton, that is a pretty big coincidence. But I think the skull can just as easily be viewed as an update of the alien artifact that was in Lucas' earlier "Saucermen From Mars" script. Both were essentially a MacGuffin that was constantly changing hands between Indy and the Russians, while everyone was trying to return it to a specific location.
 
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Rob Smith

New member
Great feedback!

Thanks for all the great feedback gang... I really have no desire to sue Lucasfilm... just making a point and defending my name... it was 12 years ago right... world wars have been fought and won in less time... I was just wondering if others saw the similarities as I do...

James - all great points... but what is hard to explain away is the opening match dissolve to a mound of sand... the trilogy went as follows:

Raiders - match dissolve to a mountain peak.
Doom - match dissolve to a mountain peak embossed on a brass gong.
Crusade - match dissolve to a mountain peak again.

But in the Crystal Skull we match dissolve to... a mound of sand. My script exactly.

Indydom... I think Lucas is messin' with my head. ;)

Cheers!

Rob
 

James

Well-known member
Rob Smith said:
just making a point and defending my name...

I don't think you have anything to defend. You pretty much wrote THE Indy 4 fan script, and it always gets a mention whenever the film's history is related. I personally think that's pretty cool. :hat:

Btw, did I have the details right concerning the "courier" thing? I know a similar story was used a few years later when the "Law of One" script surfaced, so I may be mixing the two up.
 

Rob Smith

New member
Courier story...

No, you're right James, I fabricated the courier story first... and just defending my name because years ago the crapstorm came fast and furious... and yes I can take some comfort, pride, what have you, in knowing that my name and the Indy franchise have a connection.

Yes, I'm wearing a big crap-eating grin these days gang... let me tell ya. ;)
 

Rob Smith

New member
Indy 4 slush pile...

CasualJeff - yes, it's highly possible that my script just became part of the Indy 4 slush pile, which was sourced by the train of writers brought in to realize Crystal Skull... but, y'know, with all that talent connected to the film... you would think they would've come up with something magical -- just as exciting, inventive, and realistic as Raiders... but I found the new film to be cartoonish and almost a parody of itself... and I was never more insulted by a movie than when that fridge door opened and Indy didn't spill out as pulverized goop... but, to be fair, I am biased. :D
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
But isn't Marion dead in your script? To me, technically not similar to KOTCS. Besides I think it's a pretty generic and expected idea to have Indy have a son or daughter and have the mother be Marion. Look at any fanfic with Marion in it even my own script that I never bothered finishing had Indy have a daughter with Marion and I hadn't read your script prior to that.

Though I do like the biblical take on the MacGuffin more so than aliens, I felt SoD was a tad too dark (what can I say, I'm not a big fan of ToD and of Marion being dead). Maybe why they had put infringement on you in the first place, (and you had just guessed within the script) whoever the writer was at the time, might have written a draft with a son in it and Marion might have been dead and the whole Darabont bring Marion back really meant having Marion alive in the story.

Also the fabricated story that the script was real, in which case, that sort of thing has happened before and especially with the rumours that flew around during the making of KOTCS, they never really clarified anything and a lot of lies were let loose, but that only helped their cause to keep it all a secret, which didn't always happen. Obviously publicity around the possibility of Indy 4 at the time, especially around a script was something Lucas didn't want.
 

Rob Smith

New member
Marion is alive and well...

Thanks for the great feedback... actually, Marion is alive and well in SOD, and is along for the ride, like in the new film. Indy's father dies in my script. You could be mixing the two... yeah, I read that Darabont quote and chuckled... the guy taking credit for something I did 13 years ago... the nerve...

I'm kidding of course.

Yes, the rumour mill was in full swing prior to the release... and my little stunt 12 years ago only fueled the rumour mill and kept it charging along... and for that reason alone, I've never felt any guilt over the stunt -- some argued that it in some way jeopardized the franchise, but it really had quite the opposite affect...

But... who knows... and chances are we'll never know for sure... it's unlikely Lucas will admit he paid homage... because then he'd have to admit to SOD being source material... but... a man can dream... can't he?
 

nitzsche

New member
I took another look at this and I do remember reading it at the time. I remembered quite a bit of it.

It's a good fanwork. There are things within the screenplay that break out of the Indy formula though and so it reads more like an outline to an Indy novel.

Very good action scenes though.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Hey Rob, glad you're here, and I remember reading your script back when it first hit the web. The move to fanwork was a tough call, because internet fact and fiction blended so closely in those days. Confusion remains to this day, so here we are in the fanwork forum. Actually I'm rather surprised we had no Sons of Darkness thread until now.
 
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