Rocket Surgeon said:COWARD!
Attila the Professor said:Well, there's the point. Counterpoint? Actually, screw it, I'm taking the counterpoint on this one.
As alluded to earlier, It's too great a stretch to attribute this twinkling of light to some triumph over a vastly ingrained and firmly established morally bankrupt woman.Attila the Professor said:What we see here is Willie's basic human concern for others overcoming her greed,
I have a feeling you know what I think of this considering the introduction of Mr Potter.Attila the Professor said:...leading her to make a statement that is probably a surprise even to her, decrying someone else going after the same thing she usually does.
No doubt she throws a punch, a really crappy one but a punch all the same.Henry W Jones said:Okay I got one for both sides of the debate.
1) In Willie's defense I don't think I saw anything about her punching the Temple Guard in the mine cart. It is another part where she is doing something productive and on the a*s kicking side.
Henry W Jones said:2) In Marion's defense when did she have time to thank Katanga? I doubt the Germans would be cool with her saying thanks and goodbye. They were already threatening to blow his ship up. For all we know she might have thanked him when she got the nightgown. We were not privy to that. When they left Sallah the danger was not as imminent hence time for goodbye's. Also she was on Katanga's ship for one night with little interaction I assume. While Sallah and his family hosted her in there home and was a true friend of Indy's, not a recently met acquaintance.
Some interesting viewpoins, but so misguided.Montana Smith said:
...and taking one of Plinkett's better observations to heart, (and paraphrasing it) the fun of Indiana Jones is living vicariously through him...wanting to be him and do what he does.IndyFrench said:In Raiders, we the audience follow Indy and see the film through his eyes. The story is serious and dangerous, yet not so much that the hero is untouchable for the viewer.
However, watching Temple of Doom closely, it is clear that the audience is directed through the eyes of Willie.
She's Temple of Doom's version of a laugh track...and it's always a bad thing when a character is simply employed to tell you what you should be scared of instead of actually scaring the audience with visual cues, style but more importantly substance.IndyFrench said:Willie's reactions to all of these situations are the sounding boards for the audience. She recognizes and reacts to the absuridty of the situations and gives the viewer a sense of scope and gravity.
Big mistake lady.IndyFrench said:Indy is the straight man in the picture, the tough guy in who's hands rests the fate of many.
Great, make the kid the hero. He drives, he swings, kicks and clubs, he climbs and saves, and uh, saves the hero?IndyFrench said:Shorty is his loyal companion, brave of heart, and rarely fazed by the trouble around him.
Rocket Surgeon said:...but Willie is a device, a tool. Yes Willie is a tool.
Mission Accomplished!Montana Smith said:Willie has to be annoying to make sure she can't be "the one".
Rocket Surgeon said:Mission Accomplished!
Indy's not a Man Whore? He needs to feel something for someone? Willies internal ugliness made his willie internal?Montana Smith said:Why else would Indy fail to accomplish a nocturnal mission.
(Had to be a good reason for his stubborn behaviour).
Rocket Surgeon said:Indy's not a Man Whore? He needs to feel something for someone? Willies internal ugliness made his willie internal?
I'd have said it was the mileage.Montana Smith said:She might also have been about fifteen years too old for him.
Rocket Surgeon said:I'd have said it was the mileage.
Hundreds of Miles of hard roads in the Far East...
...even the paved are bumpy.
Oh its in all the right places and the wrong places. And they're solid, like a rock.Montana Smith said:But not bumpy enough in the right places?
Col. Detritch said:Exactly! And that's what makes her character work. Let's face it, Marion would have been dreadfully dull in ToD. The movie needed a victim to experience all the nightmarish horrors from a slightly more realistic and/or humorous perspective. That sure wasn't gonna be war-hardened adventurer Indiana Jones (I mean he's human but not the butt of the joke - he's our hero/anti-hero) or his orphaned, street-smart sidekick Short Round (though a terrified child could have worked quite well Shorty was not that child) or even Marion (her terror would have been plain awkward after her character establishment in the beginning of Raiders). And that's where Willie comes in. She works in this horrific setting - less so in a Raiders or LC atmosphere.
Plus might I add (with the up-most respect for women) that it would be boring and highly unrealistic if every 1930s woman Indy met was independent and tough. Willie fits the era and the stereotype these serials perpetuated. Love her or hate her, she works in context and Kate Capshaw's work ethic is irrelevant - I mean honestly, how many movies have I seen her in again?
Originally Posted by Lindy West
1. Amanda Seyfried in Red Riding Hood
Cry. Billow. Reapply lip gloss. Repeat.
The movie pits the lovely Amanda Seyfried (nubility personified/human Keane painting/tube of lip gloss made flesh) against an angry, magic, sexually charged man-wolf. After the wolf kills her sister and makes it clear he's coming for her next (wolf telepathy is involved ? don't ask questions), Seyfried's reaction is to? stand there. Wait to be rescued. Weep. Stand there some more. Quiver under the male gaze. Reapply lip gloss. Repeat. Oh, and sometimes she strides from one place to another place wearing a billowy cloak. She's so useless, in fact, that the film doesn't even let her use her feminine wiles or her sexuality as a weapon! It's just boring, old-timey, textbook damsel-in-distress.
2. That Whore in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Oh, cool, a gold digger who never stops screeching? It's really empowering to know I can be anything I want to be, as long as it's either this chick or a virgin who never stops pouting.
3. The Childlike Empress in The Neverending Story
This weird bald lady literally just sits in a crystal egg and cries, waiting for some kid from another dimension to save her homeland with the power of his imagination. Worst empress ever! I'm totally voting for the Nothing in Fantasia.
4. Bella in the Twilight Series
Catherine Hardwicke strikes again! Limp bag of tears waits for marriage to have sex with her undead boyfriend; is paralysed by grief every time he goes in the other room. Bella barely even exists. You guys know it's 2011, right, Hollywood? Women can do stuff now ? it's the law!
5. Buttercup in The Princess Bride
Yes, I get that she has attitude or whatever ("You mock my pain!"), but could Buttercup maybe DO something once in a while besides brush her hair and contemplate suicide because she and her boyfriend broke up? The woman is a blue silk sausage casing stuffed with whines. The most irritating movie scene on Earth (just go with me on the superlatives here) has to be in the Fire Swamp when ? in the span of 10 minutes ? Buttercup manages to catch fire, fall in a hole and get bit on the foot by the world's most-outrunnable and asthmatic mega-rodent. And when Westley steps in to rescue her and gets ROUS fangs embedded in his shoulder (Hantavirus of Unusual Size!), she just stands there and looks concerned. The best she can muster is to pick up a stick and sort of gently prod the rat thingy's haunch. A monster is eating your true love, Buttercup! And you prod its haunch? Poke, poke? That's it? Are you sure!? Hit it in the brains, for God's sake! God, I hate Buttercup. I even hate buttercups the flowers now. I hate butter, I hate cups, I hate cups full of butter. See what you've done to me, Hollywood? I give up.
* I would like to preemptively acknowledge two things: 1) In battle, I ? Lindy West, confirmed woman ? could definitely not defeat a large supernatural wolf, a dishwasher-sized swamp rat, or even a very weak human man. A certain amount of whining would be inevitable. I get that. 2) If I were dating a pirate or shirtless warrior of some kind, I would absolutely let him do the heavy lifting in the protection-from-bodily-harm department. However, that said, I would at least try.
LeHah said:What I have issue with is that they wrote her TOO broadly.