Sapito vs. Satipo

Jay R. Zay

New member
"In the German version, is it Harrison Ford's voice or is it dubbed?"

dubbed. but "stupido" doesn't make much sense in german unless it refers to the english original. that's why. :)

"Every reference since then has been based on the script/credits and not
from the mouth of Indiana Jones."

that's right. except for the german dub perhaps. but, as i've said, indy altered the name in at least two other languages, too. so maybe this wasn't an accident? well, hard to tell. this mystery probably is to remain unsolved. at least until the release of Raiders of the Lost Name.

:p
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Jay R. Zay said:
that's right. except for the german dub perhaps. but, as i've said, indy altered the name in at least two other languages, too. so maybe this wasn't an accident? well, hard to tell. this mystery probably is to remain unsolved. at least until the release of Raiders of the Lost Name.
:p

Well, it's not clear what point you're trying to make here but
with all due respect, my fellow Indy fan, the translated/foreign
versions are irrelevant in this case and have no bearing on the
Sapito/Satipo contradiction. :( (Ex. Indy's wax rubbing of the
knight's shield is a close copy but not the genuine artifact).

Still, this has provided some insight into the differences between
the original and translated copies. Most likely, there are more
interesting variations...

Is there anyone else familiar with the English version who
have any comments to make or is this a dead thread? :dead:
 

Jay R. Zay

New member
"with all due respect, my fellow Indy fan, the translated/foreign
versions are irrelevant in this case"

wrong. you didn't read or you didn't understand what i wrote. let's take chinese as an example. some guy is named "chan". and "chin" means something bad (yes, anyone who knows chinese will laugh about this - i know). in the chinese version, it's inaudible. but in the english version, he says "chin". WHY would somebody change the original line in the translation, when it makes no sense for the audience? the audience doesn't know what "chin" means. so in this case, every normal person would assume that the original line was ALSO "chin". you get me now?

so back to german. there IS a german word (stupide) meaning "stupid" that is spelled almost the same way. but it's pronounced in a very different way. so you think, in the german translation, they added an english joke that makes no sense to people who don't understand english? that's very unlikely. so when there is an english line, in the german version, we can conclude that it was taken from the original. there is no use in translating an english line with another english line that is even harder to understand as the real name isn't "stupido".

plus, i added that in the two other languages, he didn't call him "satipo" either, but something entirely different. where did they get this idea? probably from the fact, that indy didn't say "satipo" in the original, too. so don't tell me that other languages didn't matter. when the english version the only one is, we can argue with, we'll never know. because it's absolutely... inaudible, right.

if you want to know whether a t-shirt was meant to be printed upside down, you don't look at this t-shirt and try to find out. you look at the other shirts from the same production. or at least that's what sensible people would do...
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Please go back and read my first post. This is not a translation issue.
It is a *dialogue does not match the credits/script* issue. You are
missing the point entirely.

1) I don't know why you insist that the line is inaudible in the original
English version. Harrison Ford says "Sapito" - it's as clear as day and
no one (whose first language is English) has disputed this.

2) The word "stupido" is not English. If Indy says, "Adios, stupido"
in some translated versions, he's speaking Spanish. This fact ruins
your argument.

3) In these other versions where he is called something completely
different (ex. Raoul), will the credits show that Alfred Molina played
the role of Raoul or Satipo?

4) To use your T-shirt analogy - If the original was printed upside-down,
other copies would have *different colours* but they would *ALL* be
upside-down. The defect is in the original - the template from which all
other copies are made. (Ex. Jules Verne's "20 000 Leagues Under The Sea"
contains a mistake in each translation because there is an error in the
original French text). Furthermore, translations are rarely 100% accurate
which is why any serious study is done on original manuscripts/text and
not a translation or hand-drawn facsimile.

Now, who is not being "sensible" here?
 

Jay R. Zay

New member
"I don't know why you insist that the line is inaudible in the original
English version. Harrison Ford says "Sapito" - it's as clear as day and
no one (whose first language is English) has disputed this."

wrong. i own the DVD and "stupido" or "satipo" is not a matter of the english language. so i can tell pretty well if it's audible or not. reducing this to a matter of lingustic skills is a poor argument/excuse.

and you remember something? it's you who started this thread being the first one to mention that he probably doesn't say "satipo". and now you claim it's as clears as day that he says "satipo"? :confused: jesus, THIS is weak.


"The word "stupido" is not English. If Indy says, "Adios, stupido"
in some translated versions, he's speaking Spanish. This fact ruins
your argument."

how clever. i never said so. the word "stupido" is a mix of the name "satipo" with "stupid". and stupid IS an english word, right? so why, i he says satipo, should they translate it to german adding a joke in the language they were translating? doesn't sound very probable.


"In these other versions where he is called something completely
different (ex. Raoul), will the credits show that Alfred Molina played
the role of Raoul or Satipo?"

you know what a DVD is, don't you? you can have hundreds of audio layers but only one video layer at a time. so guess how much the credits change when i switch to the czech audio track?


"The defect is in the original - the template from which all
other copies are made."

that's exactly the point. and the original is... the english version of "Raiders". we are talking about the original line, you remember? the question was "does he say satipo" and not "did he say what's written in the script". we are all pretty aware that THIS isn't the case.

" Furthermore, translations are rarely 100% accurate
which is why any serious study is done on original manuscripts/text and
not a translation or hand-drawn facsimile."

right, but words are changed for some meaning. maybe some original meaning gets lost because it cannot be translated. but "satipo" can be translated easily, so why would somebody make some complications by adding a joke in the original language? and if for example the czech version changed satipo to something else, they wouldn't do so because they were bored or something. they would change it to translate Indy's offence.

"Now, who is not being "sensible" here?"

exactly. perhaps you can tell me now.
 
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Stoo

Well-known member
Jay R. Zay said:
and you remember something? it's you who started this thread being the first one to mention that he probably doesn't say "satipo". and now you claim it's as clears as day that he says "satipo"? :confused: jesus, THIS is weak.

Jay, go back and read my posts. You're obviously very confused.
All along I've maintained that H. Ford says "SaPITo" - not "SaTIPo".
Are you blind as well as deaf? Until you realize this, there is no
point in continuing. :whip:

how clever. i never said so. the word "stupido" is a mix of the name "satipo" with "stupid". and stupid IS an english word, right? so why, i he says satipo, should they translate it to german adding a joke in the language they were translating? doesn't sound very probable.

"stupido" is a Spanish and Italian word that exists all on its own.
And, yes, I do think a joke has been added. Quite clever, too.

you know what a DVD is, don't you? you can have hundreds of audio layers but only one video layer at a time. so guess how much the credits change when i switch to the czech audio track?

Gee, no kidding? :rolleyes: Why do you think I asked the question?
This is exactly my point. Imagine a first-time viewer reading the credits
looking for the person who plays "Sapito/Stupido/other". They will not
find those names in the credits. If someone *never* reads the credits
they would go through their happy life without ever knowing the character's
intended name. (Oh, the horror!) It's not rocket science...

that's exactly the point. and the original is... the english version of "Raiders". we are talking about the original line, you remember? the question was "does he say satipo" and not "did he say what's written in the script".

Good grief. Unlike yourself, I've ALWAYS been talking about the original line
and you are changing what I have asked/said. Again READ MORE CAREFULLY.
That's all I have to say. You've taken a simple observation and turned it into
something completely unworthwhile. :(
 

Jay R. Zay

New member
"Jay, go back and read my posts. You're obviously very confused.
All along I've maintained that H. Ford says "SaPITo" - not "SaTIPo".
Are you blind as well as deaf? Until you realize this, there is no
point in continuing."

i guess until you find some better arguments, there actually is no point for you in continuing. your initial remark shows that obviously it's not "clear as day" whether he said satipo or not. denying this is kind of ridiculous in your position. or do you want to tell me that you can't distinguish between "satipo" and "sapito" but you are absolutely positive that, if at all, he said "sapito" and not "stupido"? :D "clear as day", right...

""stupido" is a Spanish and Italian word that exists all on its own.
And, yes, I do think a joke has been added. Quite clever, too."

i didn't deny that this word exists. but ford didn't use it because it was spanish and funny but also because english people would understand. german people wouldn't. and that you consider adding such a joke (in english (!)) as a normal thing in dubbing, let me tell you that you have no idea of what you are talking about.


"Imagine a first-time viewer reading the credits
looking for the person who plays "Sapito/Stupido/other". They will not
find those names in the credits. If someone *never* reads the credits
they would go through their happy life without ever knowing the character's
intended name. (Oh, the horror!) It's not rocket science..."

oh well. but if he's named "sapito" instead of "satipo", that's something different, right? x))) what a loss if someone doesn't get to know who played this guy. and the other one, with the gun? his name...? so what are you trying to tell me? that in the czech version he says satipo, too? wow, that's funny. :D


"I've ALWAYS been talking about the original line"

so have i. and so my example with the t-shirts was very well chosen. and your attempt to contradict me was absolutely ridiculous. you just don't get it. just as you don't get right now that there is no doubt you don't know what you are talking about. first, you aren't sure, now it's clear as day, first, we must not look at the original line, but now we have to,...

actually, i don't even have to argue with you. wait a few posts and you start arguing with yourself. :D


edit: and by the way, what do you have to say about this:

INDYfatigable said:
In my version he clearly says, (yes even on subtitles,) "Adios, Stupido!"

let me guess: INDYfatigable is blind and deaf, too. in fact, the ONLY one on this board in full control of his senses and brain is the incredibly stoo. :whip:
 
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Stoo

Well-known member
Thanks for the amusing post. Chill out, dude... :cool:
-----------------------

Just like the character's name being discussed, there's no stopping
something once it's "lost in translation". ;) Kind of like this thread...

Here's a REVIEW:
Harrison Ford says "Sapito" in the following:

1981 North American Theatrical Release (USA/Canada)
1989 VHS ? NTSC (USA/Canada)
1999 VHS ? NTSC (USA/Canada)

I recently watched the scene on DVD with various audio/subtitles,
*for the 1st time* and it confirms my claim.

2003 DVD Region 1
..............Mouth of Indiana Jones...........|...Subtitles......
-------------------------------------------------------------
English.....Adios, SaPITo....(HARRISON)...|...Adios, SaTIPo
French.....Adios, SaPITo....(HARRISON)...|...Adios, SaPIDo <<<
Spanish....Adios, estupido..(DUBBED)......|........None

-The English subtitle used the script as a guide and did not actually listen.
-The French subtitle is the closest to what Harrison Ford actually says.<<<
-The Spanish version *changed* the line (Sapito sounds like Stupido)
and subtitles were NOT necessary because the *new* dialogue was Spanish.
Whether it was a mistake or deliberate is anybody's guess...
 

War Eagle

New member
Luisiana Jones said:
Or maybe he was meant to say sapito to show the audience that the relationship between those guys wasnt a big one, that they knew themselves for such a short time that they didnt even remember well their own names ;)

Great thread. I've always wondered about this... always thought the name was a typo in the credits, as Indy clearly says SePITO.

Luisiana offers the best explanation of this IMO.
 
Well thanks War Eagle, but in my humble opinion this has come to be an argument that seems will never end, and i think we are in the same spot that we were in the beggining. :(
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Luisiana Jones said:
Well thanks War Eagle, but in my humble opinion this has come to be an argument that seems will never end, and i think we are in the same spot that we were in the beggining. :(

The beginning is exactly where we should be! :) The language translation
issue was a *side-track* from the original point. Plus, this is not intended to
be an argument. It is a QUEST to find out the reason for a mistake.
I thought Indy fans would be interested in details like this? :confused:


Anyways, I've learned something...After 20+ years, I never knew that
he was called "Stupido" in other languages until I started this thread. :cool:
 
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Stoo

Well-known member
War Eagle said:
Great thread. I've always wondered about this... always thought the name was a typo in the credits, as Indy clearly says SePITO.

Luisiana offers the best explanation of this IMO.

Right on, War Eagle. Your version of the name is, phoenetically,
more accurate than my spelling! Thanks for chiming in. :)

In the "Indy Fantasy World", Luisiana's explanation is a good one. :)
(but it really doesn't work for me since there's no previous mention
of his name. The audience has no *clue*).

What I'm getting at lies in the "Making of Indiana Jones World".
WHY is there a difference?

1) Harrison Ford flubbed the dialogue OR it was a last-minute change
2) The spelling in the credits is an error that's gone on and on and on...

The *original* shooting script holds the answer. Ballentine's
"Raiders of the Lost Ark: The Illustrated Screenplay", July 1981
was modified to match the movie (Ex. the Arab Swordsman scene)
but not in Sepito/Satipo's case.

Does anyone have the novel? What about the Marvel comic book?
If they say "SaTIPo", then Theory 1) seems most likely.
 
I have the novel in spanish and it says both times Satipo, first when introducing the character and secondly when saying Adios Satipo ;)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Note of Interest

In the recent "Indiana Jones, The Official Magazine #2", there is an article on the Indy villains.
On page #33, in the Less Than Deadly category we have:

Sapito

Typographical error or readjustment to the character's name? (Judging by the amount of mistakes/oversights
in the "Lost Journal" and "Ultimate Guide", this could be an error but thought it was worth pointing out.):p
 

Sam Falco

New member
I think that past experience with such things should point out that the "Official Magazines" of franchises should not be used as the "Official Truth" to them. Those magazines are made by publishers who just watch the movie they are doing the issue on and dont really take into account anything outside it (unless its part of the issue) so back then, they probably just used the info they got from watching the movie.
 
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