The Frank Darabont Script

foreignerfred

New member
I wonder if Darabont's script is different enough from KOTCS to be reworked and used as a basis for Indy 5. It's hard not to be at least a LITTLE curious about a script that garnered such praise from Steven Spielberg.
 

Crusade>Raiders

New member
Seriously, the script was the biggest weakness in Kingdom, even though I really enjoyed it, its nowhere near the level of Raiders or Crusade.

Indy's running and gets tackled by the big guy standing in for Pat Roach. The big fight is about to start ... and here come the man-eating ants! The movie is about to combine two trademark Indy elements: A fight scene with a much bigger opponent and arguably the most dangerous of little nasty creatures so far. This has excitement and jeopardy written all over it. And then what happens? They effectively nullify the threat of the ants with a crystal skull forcefield causing the ants to give them a wide berth. What were they thinking?!

That setup had the opportunity for greatness, with a massive fight scene moving around the set, constantly trying to avoid the ants, each one constantly being on the edge of falling into them. And a great way to end the fight that would have been in character for Indy would be to have the Big Bad Russian on the verge of falling into the ants and having Indy instinctively trying to save him but ultimately failing.

As it was, the fight itself was decent, but it was barely a shadow of what it could have been. I would understand and accept if this was the result of Ford being in poor shape or physically limited by his age, but I don't buy that excuse for a second. Ford looked to be in top shape and his physical work in this movie is every bit the equivalent of his work in the others. If he could pull off what he DID do in this movie - which he did without me even once questioning it because of his age - he could have easily pulled off the physicality of a much better sequence.

Next problem: The Dialog. I honestly can't recall the last time I saw a movie with so many examples of completely unnatural and out-of-character dialog. I completely agree with the people who say that Harrison Ford really showed up for this movie, ready to play Indy again. The problem is that when he showed up he was handed a script by someone who didn't know how to write Indy ... or Marion ... or meaningful dialog for anyone else really.

Almost more than anything else, this weakness pulled me right out of the movie several times. When speaking to Jim Broadbent at his home, Indy says, "I never should have doubted you my friend". The addition of "my friend" on the end of that statement just screamed "I'm reading a line". Take off those two words and it would have been fine. Leave them in and you're suddenly forced to remember that you're watching a movie of people saying stuff that was written for them beforehand.

Another example. When Indy first finds the crystal skull in the tomb of the conquistador he looks at it and says, "un...believable". You can almost hear "wait for it" in the pregnant space that is unnaturally inserted into the word. It slapped me in the face and took me out of the movie again.

But the thing is, there is another problematic line just seconds earlier when he he looks in the body wrapping bag, discovers it's the conquistador and says, "It's him. It's (insert name I forget) himself." The inclusion of "himself" seems unnecessary and incredibly unnatural. Now, it's difficult to say if this is entirely the script's fault or Ford's reading of the line as well, but it is certainly Spielberg's fault for not getting another take. Ultimately, I suspect all three are at fault.

Another problem is with the pacing of the dialog. There is more than once that someone unnaturally pauses their dialog to allow for some visual cue to catch up with them.

Two examples off the top of my head are very close together in the Restaurant Exposition scene which leads into the Motorcycle Chase scene. First Indy points out some Russian agents to Mutt in the Restaurant, the agents come over, say something threatening, Mutt pulls his switchblade, and Indy says, "Nice try kid, but I think you just brought a knife to a gun fight". There's nothing wrong with the line itself. The problem is that it actually goes, "Nice try kid, but I think you just brought a knife ...." (Indy looks up at agents, camera switches to agents with hands under coats, agents show guns) "... to a gun fight." The pause is so forced and unnecessary that it's hard to believe it got past Spielberg during the initial shooting, much less during the editing process.

Then, just a few minutes later, the same type of thing happens again. When the motorcycle chase goes through the library and Mutt and Indy fall and slide along the floor, a student asks Indy a question as he's climbing back onto the bike. He answers and then says, "If you want to be a good archaeologist, you need to get out of the library." Except it actually goes, "If you want to be a good archaeologist ...." (Indy a Mutt ride out of camera, camera angle changes, Mutt and Indy ride into camera as the drive away) ".... you need to get out of the library." It's ridiculous. Nobody does that. Having people interrupt their lines between camera setups just screams "fake" and your suspension-of-disbelief is shattered.

The other problem are the ridiculous and apparently meaningless contrivances. At one point Indy says that he has to return the skull to the temple but that nobody else has to come. When asked why, he says, "because it told me to." What? Because it told you to? Apparently he's telling everyone else they don't have to come because he thinks it's going to be dangerous, possibly fatal, but the only reason he needs to get this job done is because the object "told him to". This isn't the black sleep of Kali. He does have control over his own mind and actions. The script doesn't give us any credible reason why he needs to return the skull to the temple.

Shortly thereafter, they all enter the hidden opening that leads to the temple and Mutt points out that the torches on the wall are fresh and have just been used. Why? Why does he tell us that? The script never addresses why it is that they should have been fresh and just used. I doesn't seem that it could have been Oxley who just used them, since the story seems to imply that it's a been a little while since he was here. And if it is to imply that Oxley had just used them, I again ask, why? We've already been explicitly told that Oxley has been here, what's the point of subtly hinting at it? It's a meaningless statement and detail that goes nowhere.

Another example of poor writing, in my opinion, is the piece with the retracting stairs. Good idea. Well executed up until the end ... where it falls totally flat. The scene makes a big deal of the fact that they got stuck on the stairs as they retract, unable to get all the way down. It focuses on their feet as the last few inches of stair retracts into the wall and they scramble not to fall, scared of what's about to happen, and the stair is gone and they fall ... 4 or 5 feet into the water below. Why on earth were they so scared to fall 5 feet into water as though death was imminent? The script could have had them make a narrow hair-raising escape from a long fall, or actually given them a long, uncertain fall into the water below. They could have even used this to kill off Mac with one of the spears in the water on which you say other impaled bodies instead of his empty, derivative and throw-away death later. But no, the script chooses the path with the lease possible emotional impact. No hair-raising escape. No uncertain fall. No shocking death for one of the characters. Just a low-impact, 5-foot fall into a kiddie pool.

And its like this the entire ****ing movie. Thats also ToD's biggest weakness("We.Are going.To Die!" worst Indy line ever), add that to the fact that Willie is super-annoying and the pacing is all over the place screws it up.
 

jasperjones

New member
I'd agree with some of those points - specifically, my friend and Orellana himself.

I also agree that the jungle chase could have been far tighter and that the skull's powers were all over the shop. The retracting steps gag did fall flat too.

Still I thought a lot of the dialogue was great and up there with the other movies and I'm sorry, but you completely lost me at WE ARE GOING TO DIE.

That's one of my fave Indy lines and I love Ford's delivery. Guess there's no accounting for taste.
 

|ZiR|

New member
jasperjones said:
Still I thought a lot of the dialogue was great and up there with the other movies and I'm sorry, but you completely lost me at WE ARE GOING TO DIE.

That's one of my fave Indy lines and I love Ford's delivery. Guess there's no accounting for taste.

You beat me to it. Thank you.

indy_we_are_going_to_die.gif


One of the most memorable lines in TOD. How can you not like that?
 
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Jim Tigernuts

New member
I too agree with everything in that lengthy diatribe? all but the jab at TOD. It may be flawed but I have an irrational love for it! Irrational, I say!! IRRATIONAL!
 

davidsal

New member
Maybe Lucas is so confident btalking about Indy V because he knows that after using hid beloved Skulls idea, he have this great script that Ford and Spielberg already like. With a little tweking, the Darabont script!!
 

Agent Z

Active member
Crusade>Raiders said:
Next problem: The Dialog. I honestly can't recall the last time I saw a movie with so many examples of completely unnatural and out-of-character dialog. I completely agree with the people who say that Harrison Ford really showed up for this movie, ready to play Indy again. The problem is that when he showed up he was handed a script by someone who didn't know how to write Indy ... or Marion ... or meaningful dialog for anyone else really.

Almost more than anything else, this weakness pulled me right out of the movie several times. When speaking to Jim Broadbent at his home, Indy says, "I never should have doubted you my friend". The addition of "my friend" on the end of that statement just screamed "I'm reading a line". Take off those two words and it would have been fine. Leave them in and you're suddenly forced to remember that you're watching a movie of people saying stuff that was written for them beforehand.

Another example. When Indy first finds the crystal skull in the tomb of the conquistador he looks at it and says, "un...believable". You can almost hear "wait for it" in the pregnant space that is unnaturally inserted into the word. It slapped me in the face and took me out of the movie again.

But the thing is, there is another problematic line just seconds earlier when he he looks in the body wrapping bag, discovers it's the conquistador and says, "It's him. It's (insert name I forget) himself." The inclusion of "himself" seems unnecessary and incredibly unnatural. Now, it's difficult to say if this is entirely the script's fault or Ford's reading of the line as well, but it is certainly Spielberg's fault for not getting another take. Ultimately, I suspect all three are at fault.

Another problem is with the pacing of the dialog. There is more than once that someone unnaturally pauses their dialog to allow for some visual cue to catch up with them.

Two examples off the top of my head are very close together in the Restaurant Exposition scene which leads into the Motorcycle Chase scene. First Indy points out some Russian agents to Mutt in the Restaurant, the agents come over, say something threatening, Mutt pulls his switchblade, and Indy says, "Nice try kid, but I think you just brought a knife to a gun fight". There's nothing wrong with the line itself. The problem is that it actually goes, "Nice try kid, but I think you just brought a knife ...." (Indy looks up at agents, camera switches to agents with hands under coats, agents show guns) "... to a gun fight." The pause is so forced and unnecessary that it's hard to believe it got past Spielberg during the initial shooting, much less during the editing process.

Then, just a few minutes later, the same type of thing happens again. When the motorcycle chase goes through the library and Mutt and Indy fall and slide along the floor, a student asks Indy a question as he's climbing back onto the bike. He answers and then says, "If you want to be a good archaeologist, you need to get out of the library." Except it actually goes, "If you want to be a good archaeologist ...." (Indy a Mutt ride out of camera, camera angle changes, Mutt and Indy ride into camera as the drive away) ".... you need to get out of the library." It's ridiculous. Nobody does that. Having people interrupt their lines between camera setups just screams "fake" and your suspension-of-disbelief is shattered.


Man, spot-on, the dialogue is bad, but how about the delivery of the dialogue?

Call it nitpicking, but when Ford calls a library a "libary", goes "nu-cu-lar" on us, and teaches Mutt about scorpion "bites".....well, over the length of the film, it just comes across as so sloppy.

I can't believe that these mistakes weren't caught. Would it have been so hard to have the actors redo their lines? I mean, we get the strange John Wayne dubbing during the Hanger 51 intro, so would it have killed them for a few more fixes along the way?

If it was just a few mispronounced words (from a long-tenured well-educated college professor, no less) and random awkward lines, I guess I could let it slide. The problem is that it all adds up with the other issues, like the Berg's confusing staging of certain shots (see Mac's last line), and results in a film that just feels lazy and thrown out to meet a release date.
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
Moderator's note!

Let's remember that this is a thread about Frank Darabont's draft for IndyIV.
This is not primarily the place to discuss the weak spots and/or virtues of Koepp's writing or problems we have with the film in general.
 

Agent Z

Active member
torao said:
Let's remember that this is a thread about Frank Darabont's draft for IndyIV and not primarily about the weak spots of Koepp's writing or other problems the film seems to have.

Sorry about the sidetrack. I guess it's easy to forget about Darabont's script when very few have seen it outside of Frank's office. :p

Getting back on topic though, has anyone noticed Darabont touches in Kingdom?

I'll throw one out there...

At the end of the jungle chase, Mutt falls back in the duck with Indy and says "Whoah!", catching his breath. Indy, amused by Mutt's reaction, like a father admiring his son's enthusiasm, casually responds back with a "Whoah!" of his own.

Now, go watch Darabont's The Mist. The same "Whoah!" exchange takes place in that film between the father and the son. Different circumstances for sure, but dealing with the same vibe and spirit.
 
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torao

Moderator Emeritus
Agent Z said:
At the end of the jungle chase, Mutt falls back in the duck with Indy and says "Whoah!", catching his breath. Indy, amused by Mutt's reaction, affectionately, like a father admiring his son's enthusiasm, responds back with a "Whoah!" of his own.

Now, go watch Darabont's The Mist. The exact same "Whoah!" exchange takes place in that film between the father and the son.


lol

Nothing on this one but a few other alleged ingredients of Darabont's script via one of Dellamorte's (writes for collider.com/occasionally for chud) posts in an IndyIV related thread over at chud:

Mutt didn't come from the Darabont draft. It had the Skull, the ants, and the waterfall, though. Similar kind of ending, if memory serves, with the Aliens, but Jones says he's made his choice, and that he's gotten the greatest fortune and glory in getting Marion's hand back from her husband, who - in the least surprising development in the screenplay - is a Belloq. I haven't read the thing in so long that it's not really fair, but IIRC there's no wedding, but it's implied. The big thing missing is the biplane sequence, which would have killed, though would have been hella chromakeyed up. And Darabont's snake bit (Indy was over his fear, until later in the film - and this is justified by the skull making all the animal and insect life bigger - a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out) is way better, and his cold open plays stronger, and I don't think it has the atomic village stuff, it does have him riding out in a refridgerator. The Mac character is there, but he's actually Russian, and he doesn't get chumped by being too stupid to stand up and walk out.
 

Agent Z

Active member
torao said:
lol

Nothing on this one but a few other alleged ingredients of Darabont's script via one of Dellamorte's (writes for collider.com/occasionally for chud) posts in an IndyIV related thread over at chud:

'...but Jones says he's made his choice, and that he's gotten the greatest fortune and glory in getting Marion's hand back from her husband, who - in the least surprising development in the screenplay - is a Belloq.

Oh hell no! :p

Going boldface on "alleged" was smart on your part.

Until I see Frank's script, I haven't seen Frank's script. :hat:
 

sandiegojones

New member
Why does everyone think this script is going to be so great? I mean, Shawshank and Green Mile were good, but they were adapted from good Stephen King stories.

The only thing he came up with on his own I think was THE MAJESTIC and is was so so at best. Who's to say the good parts of his script weren't from the the 10 prior writers? Everyone is down on Koepp and praising Darabont with nothing to base it on. Plus, in all of the prior discussions about it I saw most agreed that neo-Nazi's would have been silly. (I could actually see them as a foil for Mutt since He's a neo-Indy).

The film was shot and edited the way Spielberg and Co. wanted. If you believe the acting or directing was flat (which I do not) then why would a different script change things?
 

Agent Z

Active member
sandiegojones said:
Why does everyone think this script is going to be so great? I mean, Shawshank and Green Mile were good, but they were adapted from good Stephen King stories.

The only thing he came up with on his own I think was THE MAJESTIC and is was so so at best. Who's to say the good parts of his script weren't from the the 10 prior writers? Everyone is down on Koepp and praising Darabont with nothing to base it on. Plus, in all of the prior discussions about it I saw most agreed that neo-Nazi's would have been silly. (I could actually see them as a foil for Mutt since He's a neo-Indy).

The film was shot and edited the way Spielberg and Co. wanted. If you believe the acting or directing was flat (which I do not) then why would a different script change things?

To use an NFL analogy...

When the offense is struggling, there's no figure more romantic to the fans than the backup quarterback.

The mystery of what could have been will always attract people more than the reality of the current disappointment.
 

sandiegojones

New member
I just don't see the point in being fickle. The movie is out, it's done, won't be changed. You have to accept that you either liked it or did not.

I do feel it's possible that there could be elements in this script that may find it's way in a new movie though, but they would have been Lucas' ideas anyway. The best parts of TOD were based on left over ideas Lucas had for Raiders (the musical opening and fight, raft jump and the mine cart chase).
 

Stoo

Well-known member
sandiegojones said:
Why does everyone think this script is going to be so great? I mean, Shawshank and Green Mile were good, but they were adapted from good Stephen King stories.

The only thing he came up with on his own I think was THE MAJESTIC and is was so so at best. Who's to say the good parts of his script weren't from the the 10 prior writers? Everyone is down on Koepp and praising Darabont with nothing to base it on.
While in no way am I a Frank Darabont flag-waver, I will say that all of my favourite episodes of Young Indy were written by him.
Great characters, memorable dialogue and PLENTY of action. I think he was very well suited to write an Indy full length feature.

(Just found out that he born in France. I didn't know that.)
 

agentsands77

New member
Dellamorte of CHUD/Collider said:
Mutt didn't come from the Darabont draft. It had the Skull, the ants, and the waterfall, though. Similar kind of ending, if memory serves, with the Aliens, but Jones says he's made his choice, and that he's gotten the greatest fortune and glory in getting Marion's hand back from her husband, who - in the least surprising development in the screenplay - is a Belloq. I haven't read the thing in so long that it's not really fair, but IIRC there's no wedding, but it's implied. The big thing missing is the biplane sequence, which would have killed, though would have been hella chromakeyed up. And Darabont's snake bit (Indy was over his fear, until later in the film - and this is justified by the skull making all the animal and insect life bigger - a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out) is way better, and his cold open plays stronger, and I don't think it has the atomic village stuff, it does have him riding out in a refridgerator. The Mac character is there, but he's actually Russian, and he doesn't get chumped by being too stupid to stand up and walk out.
For those looking for Darabont's draft to be some kind of lost gem, it doesn't sound all that much different. In fact, it sounds just as over-the-top.
 
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