Skull plot - order of events now we've seen the trailer
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God'sRadio
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If you look at the sequence
1 Indy running after jeep and truck. Jeep driven by Cate B. Jeep contains crate. Crate is metal and is probably the Roswell crate seen elsewhere
2 Indy swings, misses jeep,
3 Lands in truck
4 Next shot shows Indy driving jeep, with crate - no Cate. Thrown out? Presumably Indy takes charge of truck and transfers to jeep. On the passenger seat is open box marked Army Intel Top Secret.
5 Indy leaves jeep via whip. Jeep and crate hit oncoming car. Truck hits both.
6 Some vehicle crashes through wooden crates. It appears driven and escaping from the warehouse
The order might be different somehow in the actual scene/s?
1 Indy running after jeep and truck. Jeep driven by Cate B. Jeep contains crate. Crate is metal and is probably the Roswell crate seen elsewhere
2 Indy swings, misses jeep,
3 Lands in truck
4 Next shot shows Indy driving jeep, with crate - no Cate. Thrown out? Presumably Indy takes charge of truck and transfers to jeep. On the passenger seat is open box marked Army Intel Top Secret.
5 Indy leaves jeep via whip. Jeep and crate hit oncoming car. Truck hits both.
6 Some vehicle crashes through wooden crates. It appears driven and escaping from the warehouse
The order might be different somehow in the actual scene/s?
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God'sRadio
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joelwatts said:
I assume he is kidnapped and bundled into the trunk at some point, but at some point is also in the car proper - the hat falls outs when the driver gets out?
God'sRadio
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Niteshade007 said:
Yes but in the next shot from overhead it is clearly Ford/Indy being moved from the trunk to the side of the car - note the strap of the bag across the body.
Legendary Times
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God'sRadio said:
I think you're correct! Can't wait to see how he'll transfer to the Jeep!
God'sRadio said:
Check again, he actually grabs a hold of one of the hanging lamps...
God'sRadio said:
Totally yes! There IS a car in that scene crashing through the crates which then burst into flames (the crates or the vehicle?) - and I don't think, as some have proposed elsewhere, that this is a scene where "the Ark of the Covenant explodes in a golden glow..."
Legendary Times
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Dr. Gonzo said:
I already have a very nice spot for it on my mantle, but then again, it belongs in a museum... Darth Vile
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If we?re going to speculate on the running order of this movie, I think we need to base it on what has been shown in the previous 3 Indiana Jones movies (although this does not constitute fact as far as KOTCS is concerned).
1. Indy appears in the pre-story as a conclusion to a previous adventure
2. College/school scenes usually act as the intro to the new adventure
3. Indy gets more battered/bruised and dishevelled as the movie progresses
4. The dénouement consists of a large set piece (e.g. opening of the Ark, rope bridge confrontation, Grail temple collapse) and is prominent in pre release promotion i.e. the trailer
So from what we have in the trailer, I?d hazard a guess that where we see Indy bruised and minus jacket i.e. the warehouse scenes, we are actually seeing action from the end of the movie rather than the beginning/middle of the movie.
I?d go further and speculate that the scenes at Roswell (if that is indeed where the warehouse scene is) involves more than just the actual warehouse... I mean if you are going to incorporate Area 51 into a movie, you really have to go with the idea that we'll see... A) An alien space craft under wraps. B) Alien technology being used for military purposes. Either way that sounds more like end of movie antics to me...
1. Indy appears in the pre-story as a conclusion to a previous adventure
2. College/school scenes usually act as the intro to the new adventure
3. Indy gets more battered/bruised and dishevelled as the movie progresses
4. The dénouement consists of a large set piece (e.g. opening of the Ark, rope bridge confrontation, Grail temple collapse) and is prominent in pre release promotion i.e. the trailer
So from what we have in the trailer, I?d hazard a guess that where we see Indy bruised and minus jacket i.e. the warehouse scenes, we are actually seeing action from the end of the movie rather than the beginning/middle of the movie.
I?d go further and speculate that the scenes at Roswell (if that is indeed where the warehouse scene is) involves more than just the actual warehouse... I mean if you are going to incorporate Area 51 into a movie, you really have to go with the idea that we'll see... A) An alien space craft under wraps. B) Alien technology being used for military purposes. Either way that sounds more like end of movie antics to me...
God'sRadio
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agentsands77
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It seemingly does. That fight with the big brute in the bunker area seems to be part of Area 51. If it's not Area 51, it's certainly some other high-tech setting.Darth Vile said:
Now, I don't think there's any way this sequence closes the film. Shia, Karen Allen, and John Hurt don't appear to be around (and we know from John Hurt that he's int he finale and returns with the rest of the big five, which are only visible together in the temple sequences, indicating that the temple closes the film). Furthermore, most reliable reports put the pyramid stuff at the finale.
Furthermore, the silhouetted Indy shot seems dead certain to be the introduction, not the finale. It would be awkward if it appeared later in the film (what's the point in hiding Indy's face?).
Not if the craft was pretty much wrecked in the crash, and only things salvaged remain.Darth Vile said:
God'sRadio
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I'd guess they find a metal crate marked Roswell containing minus all but one of the crystal skulls myself...
jasperjones
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Just a thought, what if they fake out on us again like they did in the last crusade? I really think the area 51 stuff is the opening adventure. We've seen Indy being pulled out from the trunk. But yet the hat is on the floor, suggesting that the hat wasn't in the trunk. What if Mac is driving the car but we don't realize this at the start. All we see are glimpses of the Fedora on the driver...We'll all expect Indy to be driving. The car gets stopped. Pan round to reveal Mac in the fedora...One of the Ruskies smacks the hat off his head in disgust...where the hells is Indy? In the trunk...Could be a good way to tease the audience and to me it woulod be classic Indy to have him trying to sneak in in the trunk. No glamour for this hero...
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If you read the whole thread (which I think you didn't), you'd noticed the bit we discussed about the person being taken from the trunk in the fast snippet is not actually Indy, but Mac.jasperjones said:
However, that minor detail aside, you might have stumbled onto something here. They're definitely playing smoke & mirrors with us, both in the trailer and likely in the beginning of the movie. First there's the US soldiers who may turn out to be not-so-American as the viewer first thought, and also some similarity between the clothing of Mac and Indy, so the idea of 'berg giving us a little confusion in the beginning minutes doesn't seem far-fetched at all, but actually even probable.
It may not go exactly as you described (well, I think that can be said of everyone's attempts to piece it together) but in general... well, it's been 19 years. It'd be really candid for them to tease us just those few lingering moments more.
Darth Vile
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agentsands77,
I?d hazard a guess that when John Hurt talks about his appearance in the finale, he?s actually talking about the closing scenes as opposed to the actual dénouement of the movie.
Also re. Indy?s shadow against the truck. I think it?s a big assumption to believe that must be his introduction. We?ve seen the shadow shot before in Raiders when he first enters Marion?s bar, and that?s certainly well into the movie by then.
Please let me know where those reliable sources say that the temple scenes are at the end of the movie, as I?d be interested in reading that for myself. ? Cheers.
I?d hazard a guess that when John Hurt talks about his appearance in the finale, he?s actually talking about the closing scenes as opposed to the actual dénouement of the movie.
Also re. Indy?s shadow against the truck. I think it?s a big assumption to believe that must be his introduction. We?ve seen the shadow shot before in Raiders when he first enters Marion?s bar, and that?s certainly well into the movie by then.
Please let me know where those reliable sources say that the temple scenes are at the end of the movie, as I?d be interested in reading that for myself. ? Cheers.
I really think it is Mac being pulled out of the trunk.
When you do a frame by frame, you can clearly see Mac's jacket, his shirt underneath, the wide leather belt.
The trailer is cut to make you think Indy is the one coming out of the trunk - but it's Mac.
I'm beginning to doubt my initial understanding of this warehouse scene.
Now I am thinking that this is not the opening of the movie. I think Indy and Mac are either taken against their will to this Area 51 installation for their expertise or knowledge. Maybe the Russians have Mac and Indy tries to sneak in to get him but is caught along the way.
The Russians are posing as US guards, and have Mac in the trunk to sneak him into Area 51, or because he was in another part of the installation and the baddies throw him in the trunk and drive him to where Indy has been captured while they await Spalko at gunpoint.
In the shot where Spalko is leaning over [presumably] looking at the Roswell crate, you can make out Indy's hat. He's standing there behind her flanked by guards.
It's possible Indy and Mac are kidnapped from the start, then they somehow break free in the warehouse and escape.
When you do a frame by frame, you can clearly see Mac's jacket, his shirt underneath, the wide leather belt.
The trailer is cut to make you think Indy is the one coming out of the trunk - but it's Mac.
I'm beginning to doubt my initial understanding of this warehouse scene.
Now I am thinking that this is not the opening of the movie. I think Indy and Mac are either taken against their will to this Area 51 installation for their expertise or knowledge. Maybe the Russians have Mac and Indy tries to sneak in to get him but is caught along the way.
The Russians are posing as US guards, and have Mac in the trunk to sneak him into Area 51, or because he was in another part of the installation and the baddies throw him in the trunk and drive him to where Indy has been captured while they await Spalko at gunpoint.
In the shot where Spalko is leaning over [presumably] looking at the Roswell crate, you can make out Indy's hat. He's standing there behind her flanked by guards.
It's possible Indy and Mac are kidnapped from the start, then they somehow break free in the warehouse and escape.
jasperjones said:
jasper, I'm pretty sure you've nailed the running order. I think Indy is looking for the Ark at the beginning and also that it will be destroyed by (or cause) a massive nuclear style bang to end the opening adventure.
Then back to Marshall College, and the Indy/Mutt team up motorbike chase through campus.
Then off to Peru...
jasperjones said:
Another point... The teacher line, I took it from first viewing that Mutt was saying "I thought you were a teacher" which seemed to me to make no sense, in that, surely by this point in the movie Mutt would have realised that Indy was more than just a teacher. But as a friend pointed out, and on further viewings of the trailer, Mutt is saying "You're a teacher??" as if this was the first point in the movie that Mutt finds out that Indy is a teacher too.
Which would suggest that when Mutt and Indy team up on campus Mutt thinks that Indy is just a man about town?? I'm confused...
The key [to me] is understanding where and more importantly when the bunker and rocket sled "chain" fight happens. If this is also in the beginning as part of the teaser, then we are looking at a very long opening sequence.
I'm pretty sure these scenes will all be at Area 51 or some military base and not in South America unless the Russians have a military bunker there with all their vehicles: the jeeps, trucks, jungle cutter and rocket sled.
Seems to me a rocket sled is used to get out of an area very quickly and that makes more sense at a military base where they are testing nukes.
I'm pretty sure these scenes will all be at Area 51 or some military base and not in South America unless the Russians have a military bunker there with all their vehicles: the jeeps, trucks, jungle cutter and rocket sled.
Seems to me a rocket sled is used to get out of an area very quickly and that makes more sense at a military base where they are testing nukes.
jasperjones
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I did read that Finn, but I'm not sure I agree...
jasperjones
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OK, watched it again and I eat my Fedora. That is Mac being pulled from the trunk.
I still think that the teacher line comes after Mutt gets his first glimpse of who his dad really is.
Marshall has said that Mutt has a youthful arrogance that Indy plays off. It will be the typical young buck who knows it all...
remember that when Mutt first finds Indy he is dressed like a aging professor teaching archaeology (Indy's probably hung up his hat after his opening adventure and decided to settle down). When they get chased from the college, let's not forget that it's Mutt doing the driving while the old prof hangs on (think the motorcycle chase from crusade) and from Mutt's POV he'll be the one who's done the hero work/ rescuing. When they get to South American he'll be wanting to do things his way and will ignore Indy's more seasoned suggestions and furstrated and thinking he knows better will go off on his own. Gets himself in way over his head (like father like son) and is in real trouble when Indy saves him, showing him just how bad ass the old man really is...those lines would fit perfectly in that scenario and would be great in terms of character dynamics...
I still think that the teacher line comes after Mutt gets his first glimpse of who his dad really is.
Marshall has said that Mutt has a youthful arrogance that Indy plays off. It will be the typical young buck who knows it all...
remember that when Mutt first finds Indy he is dressed like a aging professor teaching archaeology (Indy's probably hung up his hat after his opening adventure and decided to settle down). When they get chased from the college, let's not forget that it's Mutt doing the driving while the old prof hangs on (think the motorcycle chase from crusade) and from Mutt's POV he'll be the one who's done the hero work/ rescuing. When they get to South American he'll be wanting to do things his way and will ignore Indy's more seasoned suggestions and furstrated and thinking he knows better will go off on his own. Gets himself in way over his head (like father like son) and is in real trouble when Indy saves him, showing him just how bad ass the old man really is...those lines would fit perfectly in that scenario and would be great in terms of character dynamics...