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Old 07-16-2018, 06:01 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face_Palm
...they pleased the vast majority.



It's sits at Position 43 of all time box office, adjusted for inflation movies.

For a product so many people claim to hate, they certainly aren't boycotting it with their wallets.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:01 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by Face_Palm
Not one critic has ever stepped forward and claimed to have been bribed to review a film. That’s a defense online trolls use for a positively reviewed film that they didn’t enjoy.

I follow many critics who bashed a wrinkle in time and iron man 3 and were still invited to the next Disney movie premiere.

TLJ is a well made and more importantly well acted film. The prequels are far from that.

No. It was a mess.

Sorry, I would watch the prequels, which I don't even really enjoy, over TLJ. The whole film is just a confusing arthose mess that masquerades as deep. Leia Poppins. Lmfao.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:03 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse


It's sits at Position 43 of all time box office, adjusted for inflation movies.

For a product so many people claim to hate, they certainly aren't boycotting it with their wallets.

I saw it in theaters. I won't be seeing the next one. And I know a lot of other people, online and off, who feel the same way. Bought a ticket. Saw it. And now are burned. I would be surprised if IX does as well financially.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:23 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I saw it in theaters. I won't be seeing the next one. And I know a lot of other people, online and off, who feel the same way. Bought a ticket. Saw it. And now are burned. I would be surprised if IX does as well financially.
Whenever I hear people say this I just get gombsmacked. Do people really have so little imagination? They could do ANYTHING in Episode IX.
They could have Vader come back if they were desperate enough even. So you're saying that if the teaser trailer had Vader breathing and a line about "it's been a long time" or something like that you wouldn't be in your seat faster than you could say Darth?

Or they could clone Hayden Christensen or the Emperor or rope in Ewan Mcgregor or Even Ford for a billion dollars. But noo, those whiney *******s they won't be seeing that one nope. And those were just the most obvious nostalgia baity tropes I could pick of the top of my head this very instance.

But you know what? I hope they won't be seeing it, maybe then we'd not get any more of the poor actors harassed.
Like I said I just have to shake my head.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:33 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face_Palm
Not one critic has ever stepped forward and claimed to have been bribed to review a film. That’s a defense online trolls use for a positively reviewed film that they didn’t enjoy.

I follow many critics who bashed a wrinkle in time and iron man 3 and were still invited to the next Disney movie premiere.

TLJ is a well made and more importantly well acted film. The prequels are far from that.
In all honesty, the critical vs. audience viewpoint of the film is definitely different. A lot of people I know who saw the movie (as well as I) were disappointed. As for my point of view on it, I'll second that it was well-acted (hell, even Rose, a character I didn't particularly enjoy, was given a more than sympathetic portrayal by Kelly Marie Tran), but the script was meh. I feel bad for Rian, because I know how hard it is to make a film and have others subject it to criticism, but the final product was a relatively overcomplicated movie with unfulfilling plotlines, pathetic, infantile humor, and terrible dialogue, at some points becoming as sluggish as The Phantom Menace . It's not a film on my watch list, that's for sure, though I can appreciate the opinions of those who derived at least a bit of enjoyment from it.
But that's a different discussion for a different thread. We're supposed to be talking about the better Lucasfilm franchise here .
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Originally Posted by Silvor
But you know what? I hope they won't be seeing it, maybe then we'd not get any more of the poor actors harassed.
Like I said I just have to shake my head.
Same here. Even as someone who really disliked TLJ, I never got the idea that people would actually harass others because they didn't like their roles in MOVIES. Not real life here, people, but fantasies on a screen. It strikes me as so childish and petulant, and reminds me that some people should really get off the Internet. Just look at what happened to Ahmed Best (Jar Jar) or Kelly Marie Tran (Rose). Granted, I didn't enjoy their characters, but to go out and push them towards depression and near-suicide is honestly some of the worst stuff I've ever heard.

Last edited by TheFirebird1 : 07-16-2018 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:45 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by Dr.Jonesy
The Last Jedi - no matter how you slice it - has been slammed by the majority of fans/audiences. It's definitely over half.

The disparity between critics and audiences is staggering.

The negative reception was much so that it hurt Solo's success. Merchandise sales are also way down. Kathleen Kennedy may be going, soon.

The film had way too many standard, avoidable film making flaws that I have a hard time believing all these critics didn't notice them. It smells fishy.


Critics have the film a 91% and audiences have the film a letter grade of “A”.

How is that a disparity?
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:49 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I saw it in theaters. I won't be seeing the next one. And I know a lot of other people, online and off, who feel the same way. Bought a ticket. Saw it. And now are burned. I would be surprised if IX does as well financially.
My wife said the same thing walking out of TLJ. We'll probably end up seeing it, as I do want to know how it ends, but not opening night like we did with TFA, RO, and TLJ. We haven't seen Solo and probably won't until it hits streaming/DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvor
But you know what? I hope they won't be seeing it, maybe then we'd not get any more of the poor actors harassed.
Like I said I just have to shake my head.
While the harassment was clearly way over the line, it is possible to not like the movie and not be one of the internet idiots that did that. There's too much grouping (on both sides) of people into haters and sycophants.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:09 PM   #483
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It's okay to hate a film, and it is okay to hate characters. It is NOT okay to hate or mistreat actors for merely playing a part. I'm not one of those people. I hate TLJ, and no, no I would not see IX if you paid me or if the ghost of Walt Disney came to me and urged me to. But harass the actors? No.

And I know some will say "You only hated it because racism/sexism", no, actually. I hated it because it was a mess, because it was disjointed, confusing, and simply not enjoyable even if you remove SW baggage from it. I thought Padme (a female) was a critically underused element of the prequels; only in II is she truly a strong female character with agency. I thought and still think Sam Jackson could've made a great Jedi Master, but Mace Windu is as boring as a pile of rocks as a character. The problem with TLJ wasn't minority characters; it was that none of the characters were likable, even the ones who had been likable in TFA. At least the prequels had Obi Wan, Palpatine, Dooku and Qui Gon as interesting or enjoyable to watch. TLJ took all that was good about TFA and SW and flushed it away.

Hopefully Indy V doesn't make the same mistake.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:27 PM   #484
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I love the discourse here, I really do. Some valid opinions are being expressed, and backed up with good thought and good reasoning. But you cannot argue with opinion. I mean, you can, but you're an idiot if you do. That is why I posted the box office total. You cannot argue with the fact that people are buying this product regardless of their opinion of it.

Nobody wanted the Solo movie. Origin stories don't do very well. End of story. They are just not viable or practical for the screen. And they certainly aren't tentpole movies. The reason it didn't do well at the box office has more to do with Disney's release of it than anything else. It was not hurt from bad press over TLJ.

And it's casting decision... for the titular character.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:18 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I love the discourse here, I really do. Some valid opinions are being expressed, and backed up with good thought and good reasoning. But you cannot argue with opinion. I mean, you can, but you're an idiot if you do. That is why I posted the box office total. You cannot argue with the fact that people are buying this product regardless of their opinion of it.

Nobody wanted the Solo movie. Origin stories don't do very well. End of story. They are just not viable or practical for the screen. And they certainly aren't tentpole movies. The reason it didn't do well at the box office has more to do with Disney's release of it than anything else. It was not hurt from bad press over TLJ.

And it's casting decision... for the titular character.

You can argue with opinion and not be an idiot because art is subjective. It's the "we surround you" mentality that's a turn off.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:11 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by Randy_Flagg
Your fear of Broom Boy is a odd. He only appeared in one film during the Disney era, and only had a very brief moment of screen-time in it.
Its not fear its total apathy. Disney forced that scene in there like they forced an ending on Tommorrowland which then undid any fond feelings toward it as Disney quite literally shoved it down your throat with their cut n pasted social commentary message!

Forget the reviews TLJ was total garbage made by a hack director & backed up by the fools running Lucasfilm (not for much longer I hope). Hamill was wasted & the character was made to look dumb. The broom boy scene was so false & tacked on to once again present a Disney approved message.

Indy 5 needs to avoid this & be what it is not have any social commentary messages inserted just to please the PC police @ LFL & Disney.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:43 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Face_Palm
Critics have the film a 91% and audiences have the film a letter grade of “A”.

How is that a disparity?

If you think it's that simple - you're daft.

Star Wars is in dire straights right now. And this film is one of the biggest reasons why.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:46 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
I feel bad for Rian, because I know how hard it is to make a film and have others subject it to criticism.

I have no sympathy for him. He's thrown fans under the bus for valid critiques.

On top of that, he's stated that many times that he always wants to make divisive films. That's some stunningly ridiculous hipster crap.

So he both screwed the pooch on purpose to be divisive and he's suddenly tired of ducking the crap that's flown his way?

Sorry, Rian. You did this to yourself.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:16 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
That is why I posted the box office total. You cannot argue with the fact that people are buying this product regardless of their opinion of it.
That's a fair point. Though on average Star Wars movies are not as successful the further into Disney's ownership we go. Is that because of burn out, poor movies, poor timing, other reasons? That's the great debate. We'll have to see how IX does at the box office to see if the pattern continues.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:53 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by Dr.Jonesy
I have no sympathy for him. He's thrown fans under the bus for valid critiques.

On top of that, he's stated that many times that he always wants to make divisive films. That's some stunningly ridiculous hipster crap.

So he both screwed the pooch on purpose to be divisive and he's suddenly tired of ducking the crap that's flown his way?

Sorry, Rian. You did this to yourself.
Let me put it this way. As someone who's written and made some short films myself, I can speak from experience when I say that I myself can get upset when others critique my movies, no matter how valid they are. I guess when you work on something like that for a while, it almost becomes your baby, in a strange sense, and you become very defensive of it.
As for his statement on divisive films, I think what he was trying to say was that he wanted to make people "think" when watching his movies, whether in the positive or the negative. Of course, you and I both know that doesn't exactly work out for Star Wars, for the simple reason that they're ultra-high concept films that deal with a mostly black and white morality and established ideas of good vs. evil. So when he tried to make his film so "deep", it actually became quite shallow (another reason why I didn't like TLJ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMa
Though on average Star Wars movies are not as successful the further into Disney's ownership we go. Is that because of burn out, poor movies, poor timing, other reasons? That's the great debate. We'll have to see how IX does at the box office to see if the pattern continues.
I'd chalk it up to franchise fatigue and poor timing at this point, as well as a lack of interest. A lot of audiences simply aren't interested in watching spinoff movies, and as a result they can become almost niche films, especially when placed right after movies like Infinity War. It's not that the spinoffs are bad, they're just very forgettable, and as a result not many people want to see them. Rogue One's success, in all honesty, was a bit of a fluke.
As for IX, I think it'll make at least 900 million-1 billion at the box office in total, but will probably see a sharp decline from the previous two. The reason why TFA made so much was because it was a major event which starred major players in Hollywood (Harrison, for example), as well as the lack of any live-action SW movies for the past ten years. IX doesn't have that buildup, and neither did TLJ, so consequentially it could make less money as a result.

Last edited by TheFirebird1 : 07-17-2018 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:32 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I love the discourse here, I really do.
You could argue some of it is rather OT, but I guess we have another three years to kill on the Indy front...

Oh, and Happy Birthday to you, old chap!
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:42 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by Raiders112390
The whole film is just a confusing arthose mess that masquerades as deep.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not as big a SW fan as most of you guys seem to be, but I agree with you on this one.

TLJ looks great, but it felt like an directionless, pretentious movie to me.
And I don't care that it made money - that's not how I judge films.

Compare and and contrast with BR2049: completely bombed at the box office but looked fantastic and it actually had a compelling story to tell, perfectly consistent with the original.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:04 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
DISCLAIMER: I'm not as big a SW fan as most of you guys seem to be, but I agree with you on this one.

TLJ looks great, but it felt like an directionless, pretentious movie to me.
And I don't care that it made money - that's not how I judge films.

Compare and and contrast with BR2049: completely bombed at the box office but looked fantastic and it actually had a compelling story to tell, perfectly consistent with the original.
Excellently said. A lot of TLJ felt like it was slipping into pretentious arthouse territory in order to seem "deep", whereas BR2049 was a beautiful film on its own and used its script, as well as marvelous performances and incredible direction to create an epic that will, in my opinion, go down as one of the greatest films in history.
And yeah, box office runs don't matter at all. If a film is horrible, it's horrible, even if it made a billion plus in box office returns.
And as I noted in the birthday thread, Happy Birthday, Pale Horse!
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:12 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
BR2049 was a beautiful film on its own and used its script, as well as marvelous performances and incredible direction to create an epic that will, in my opinion, go down as one of the greatest films in history.
Wow, you are even more enthusiastic about it than I am!

Time will tell - we do know that BR movies tend to age well...

About performances: for what it's worth, I thought that Hamill's performance in TLJ was excellent (despite his dislike for the character's development).
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:44 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Wow, you are even more enthusiastic about it than I am!

Time will tell - we do know that BR movies tend to age well...

About performances: for what it's worth, I thought that Hamill's performance in TLJ was excellent (despite his dislike for the character's development).
It's weird, something about BR2049 left an indelible mark on me after I saw it. And yes, BR movies do age well. In fact, the more I watch 2049, the more I like it .
As for Hamill (and by extension the cast of TLJ), I have no complaints. Their acting was superb, the main problem for me was that the script and direction was subpar.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:06 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Dr.Jonesy
If you think it's that simple - you're daft.

Star Wars is in dire straights right now. And this film is one of the biggest reasons why.

Why because The Last Jedi was a critically acclaimed film, second biggest Star Wars box office film, biggest film of 2017 and well reviewed by actual verified audience ratings sites?


No, it’s because Solo was poorly marketed and poorly placed.

Star Wars was in “dire straights” during 1999-2005.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:09 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
It's weird, something about BR2049 left an indelible mark on me after I saw it. And yes, BR movies do age well. In fact, the more I watch 2049, the more I like it .
As for Hamill (and by extension the cast of TLJ), I have no complaints. Their acting was superb, the main problem for me was that the script and direction was subpar.


Agreed. It may have actually been the best Hamill has ever been. I don’t love the film, but it’s at least a very well acted and well made film. Which is not something the prequel trilogy can say.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:39 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by Face_Palm
Why because The Last Jedi was a critically acclaimed film, second biggest Star Wars box office film, biggest film of 2017 and well reviewed by actual verified audience ratings sites?


No, it’s because Solo was poorly marketed and poorly placed.

Star Wars was in “dire straights” during 1999-2005.

Everyone is entitled to their taste
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:14 PM   #499
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Something I noted in "The Call of the Wild" thread, given how Harrison is pretty much ensured to star in it:
Quote:
I wonder if we can determine what kind of shape Harry's in if he has any stunts in this flick, as well as the box office draw it'll have, and use that to make some predictions regarding the fifth installment.
I think this film will be a pretty good setup for some of the things we should expect in Indy 5.
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:47 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Something I noted in "The Call of the Wild" thread, given how Harrison is pretty much ensured to star in it:

I think this film will be a pretty good setup for some of the things we should expect in Indy 5.
Not too sure of that, I think he's playing an older prospector in this, not exactly someone who's as active as Indy would be. You can't just take any Ford movie and judge hys physical abilities, they're completely different beasts.

Also, apparently it's based on a book where the story is seen trough the eyes of a dog and a special effects company is supposed to be heavily involved so it's very likely Ford only has a bit part and the main character is a dog with the help of some cgi.

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