The Tree of Life

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Kasdan couldn't help but base his villain on French writer and antisemite Joseph Hilaire Pierre René Belloc (1870-1953).

So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998, and made it a search for Eden through South America against the rival "Professor Conrad," could he have based such a character on the German botanist Conrad Moench (1744-1805)? He's a lesser figure than Belloc and would surely have been pulled from some encyclopedia of botanists, just speculatin'.
 

Uki

Member
I have thought that a good idea for the next MacGuffin would be The Book of Abraham. (Actually, the gf has to get credit for the idea.)

Has anyone here read The Alchemist or its sequels?
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Eden by Thomas Cole. Then...
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...and now?
s640x480
 

foreignerfred

New member
Moedred said:
So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998

First of all, Moedred, I want to thank you for your chronicles of Indy info from times past! It's great to have all that stored for lean times like these...

I wonder if you could site your sources for these bits, though. For example, reading the above quote about Kasdan working with Spielberg in `98 makes my heart go boom...but then I'm just left wondering where that tiny fragment of news came from.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
I dismissed the Kasdan rumor at first as a fan's wishful thinking. But then theRaider cocreator Jawad Mir confirmed his Dreamworks source was reliable. It's not easy using the web archive and theRaider's outdated list of related sites to dig back to the 1990's. You can use my links to determine the legitimacy of each quote. I think that's all I can skim without a Nexis account, or the collective memories of fans over 25!
 

foreignerfred

New member
Moedred said:
I dismissed the Kasdan rumor at first as a fan's wishful thinking. But then theRaider cocreator Jawad Mir confirmed his Dreamworks source was reliable. It's not easy using the web archive and theRaider's outdated list of related sites to dig back to the 1990's. You can use my links to determine the legitimacy of each quote. I think that's all I can skim without a Nexis account, or the collective memories of fans over 25!


Well, thank you for what you do, Moedred!

I personally believe Spielberg will guide this next film. He gave Lucas TOD and Lucas gave him LC. He gave Lucas KOTCS, so Lucas will (hopefully) give him Indy 5.

With that said, Steven's had time to polish HIS non-alien related ideas from the 20 year stint, and with a ROTLA anniversary coming up, I'm betting Kasdan will be getting a new Indy credit to his name.

Thanks again, Moedred. The messenger doesn't always get shot. Sometimes he gets a high five.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Moedred said:
So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998, and made it a search for Eden through South America against the rival "Professor Conrad," could he have based such a character on the German botanist Conrad Moench (1744-1805)? He's a lesser figure than Belloc and would surely have been pulled from some encyclopedia of botanists, just speculatin'.

Or more likely Joseph Conrad - his novel Nostromo has several lines about "a paradise of snakes", that is, man bringing corruption and evil into Latin America (where Nostromo is set). It's a metaphor for imperialism, which Conrad despised, especially after witnessing the horrors that were being perpetuated in the Belgian Congo. Which would also link Sons of Darkness to Conrad's Heart of Darkness.

Here is a quote from the novel:

"Yes, I remember," said Charles Gould, "it was Don Pepe who called the
gorge the Paradise of snakes. No doubt we have disturbed a great many.
But remember, my dear, that it is not now as it was when you made that
sketch." He waved his hand towards the small water-colour hanging alone
upon the great bare wall. "It is no longer a Paradise of snakes. We have
brought mankind into it, and we cannot turn our backs upon them to go
and begin a new life elsewhere."

It's a complex of ideas about temptation, corruption, human weakness, and so on.

I hadn't seen these old archives until just now, when I opened this thread. It makes another connection to the ideas I was working on in the Indy and Marion surviving the Ark thread.

Thanks for posting the link Moedred!
 
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Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Those Cole paintings are a superb study in Chiaroscuro and entirely how I've seen it played out. Note particularly the ?Rule of Four? as it relates to Art in the linked thread.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Pale Horse said:
Those Cole paintings are a superb study in Chiaroscuro and entirely how I've seen it played out. Note particularly the ‘Rule of Four’ as it relates to Art in the linked thread.

These are certainly striking paintings, Pale Horse. Full of brooding menace, and the struggle of light and darkness. A quick Google search brough up this page:

http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cole/cole.html

I find 'The Course of Empire: Desolation' particularly inspiring:

http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cole/cole6.html


A last glimmer of light in the sunset of civilization... But you can read so much into a painting like that.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
sheeee...it just hit me. Offspring from the loins is one metaphorical way to keep the 'tree of life'....continually growing.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Are you suggesting another phallic Macguffin like the shiva linga? Interesting, Genesis never mentions apples, but in Solomon 2:3, "Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest is my lover among the young men. I delight to sit in his shade, and his fruit is sweet to my taste." That's your dirty Bible verse for the day.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Some Adventist art from, I think, a Stephen N Haskell book 100 years ago. You can count the Macguffins already used (no fourth nail here) and the one we've been talking about in this thread (it's not a plant).
s640

It also reminds me of that Monty Python sketch:
Pope: "What in God's name possessed you to paint this with three Christs in it?"
Michelangelo: "It works, mate! The fat one balances the two skinny ones."
 

AlivePoet

New member
Moedred said:
Some Adventist art from, I think, a Stephen N Haskell book 100 years ago. You can count the Macguffins already used (no fourth nail here) and the one we've been talking about in this thread (it's not a plant).
s640

It also reminds me of that Monty Python sketch:
Pope: "What in God's name possessed you to paint this with three Christs in it?"
Michelangelo: "It works, mate! The fat one balances the two skinny ones."

That and Eric Idle's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" at the end of Life of Brian.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
I flipped through R. Crumb's illustrated Genesis, with it's "whirling sword" beside the ugliest cherubim ever (even by Crumb's standards). He takes his translation from Robert Alter, who explains:
The cherubim, a common feature of ancient Near Eastern mythology, are not to be confused with the round-cheeked darlings of Renaissance iconography. The root of the term either means "hybrid" or, by an inversion of consonants, "mount," "steed," and they are the winged beasts, probably of awesome aspect, on which the sky god of the old Canaanite myths and of the poetry of Psalms goes riding through the air. The fiery sword, not mentioned elsewhere but referred to with the definite article as though it were a familiar image, is a suitable weapon to set alongside the formidable cherubim.
And from Richard Elliott Friedman:
Sphinxes. Creatures of mixed species, frequently with the head of a human, the body of a four-legged animal, and the wings of a bird. Cherubs guard the path to the tree of life. Later, statues of cherubs will be placed over the ark, seemingly guarding its contents, which are sources of wisdom and righteousness, which in turn are pictured as ultimately the key to a return to the closeness with the deity that is lost here.
And W. Gunther Plaut:
The function of these creatures, as stated in 3:24, is to secure the Garden of Eden from intrusion. ?The fiery ever-turning sword? is an additional and separate deterrent and not a weapon in the hands of the cherubim.
Why, then, is it so difficult to find images of flaming swords hovering outside Eden on their own volition?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
arkfinder said:
The problem with the Tree of life is that it was burned up by Angels.

Didn't you ever go to Sunday School?

The Bible said:
Then the Angel showed me Water-of-Life River, crystal bright. It flowed from the Throne of God and the Lamb, right down the middle of the street. The Tree of Life was planted on each side of the River, producing twelve kinds of fruit, a ripe fruit each month. The leaves of the Tree are for healing the nations. Never again will anything be cursed. ~ Revelations 22

Now, to tie it all to Enki/Eridu, Summeria, WMD's, the war with Iran, and 1959....
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
A question, as Pale Horse and Moedred seem to know a bit about the esoteric and art:

It's off topic but:

Is there anything from the occult that any of the items in these rooms would pertain to, and what art style could this be described as:
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kq5newvga19.png
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
A question, as Pale Horse and Moedred seem to know a bit about the esoteric and art:

It's off topic but:

Is there anything from the occult that any of the items in these rooms would pertain to, and what art style could this be described as:

Snakes, scorpions, skulls and wings. A mish-mash of traditional elements, with an Egyptian bent? The organ is a classic modern gothic image, which looks like it ought to be played by a skull-headed monk, or the Phantom of the Opera himself.

The scorpion-taled woman looks a little like Harryhausen's version of Medusa, or Mignola's Hecate.

As for the style, how about 'digital water colour'?
 
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