Hollywood Follies

Schubelgruber

New member
The episode Hollywood follies was set sometime in the 1920's but definitely before Temple of doom which was set in the 1930s.

In the episode, Indy goes to visit the oddball director Erich von Stroheim, which he finds is swimming in an indoor pool accompanied by a group of people singing Carl Orff's Carmina Burana. The problem here is that Carmina Burana had not been composed until 1936, well into the Last Crusade time period.

So I ask: Was Erich von Stroheim a time traveler?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Schubelgruber said:
So I ask: Was Erich von Stroheim a time traveler?

Yes.

His time-machine, was also spotted in Sarajevo on the afternoon of Sunday 28th June 1914.

Even more curiously, he obtained the recording from one of the Dropa Stones...

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=21120&highlight=gonna+give

Carmina Burana is a scenic cantata composed by Carl Orff in 1935 and 1936. It is based on 24 of the poems found in the medieval collection Carmina Burana...Orff first encountered the text in John Addington Symonds's 1884 publication Wine, Women and Song, which included English translations of 46 poems from the collection. Michel Hofmann, a young law student and Latin and Greek enthusiast, assisted Orff in the selection and organization of 24 of these poems into a libretto, mostly in Latin verse, with a small amount of Middle High German and Old Provençal...Carmina Burana was first staged in Frankfurt by the Frankfurt Opera on June 8, 1937

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana_(Orff)



Cue Stoo for some intelligent input. (y)
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
It's a killer choice, despite its anachronistic nature: its famously imposing sound aside, the opening and closing portion of the piece, the part that is used in the film is entitled "O Fortuna," and fortune certainly did not smile on von Stroheim, once they stopped letting him make his spectacles.
 

InexorableTash

Active member
Schubelgruber said:
So I ask: Was Erich von Stroheim a time traveler?

Montana Smith said:
Yes.

His time-machine, was also spotted in Sarajevo on the afternoon of Sunday 28th June 1914.

Interesting. I suspect he may have been a rogue time traveller, attempting to twist history to his own ends. Vicky, on the other hand. was a time agent charged with making sure Indy's fate turned out correctly. She let it slip once:

London said:
Indy: "Is that a Zeppelin?"
Vicky: "No, it's a time-traveler from the twenty-first century coming to see if we're all right."

I think we can assume she's responsible for getting an older Indy set up with a few anachronistic items like his Mark VII bag. She and von Stroheim may have crossed paths a few times.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
It's a killer choice, despite its anachronistic nature: its famously imposing sound aside, the opening and closing portion of the piece, the part that is used in the film is entitled "O Fortuna," and fortune certainly did not smile on von Stroheim, once they stopped letting him make his spectacles.

It was a curious choice. For a show which Lucas intended as educational, in all areas of culture, was it an honest mistake, or a deliberate anachronism?

Running off the page and into fantasy, it was my initial thought that von Stroheim's outlandish love of spectacle would have set up the greatest spectacle on earth (assassinating Archduke Franz Ferdinand) - and in the course of his other exploits, as InexorableTash has noted, changed the course of Indy's world from that of our own...
 
Schubelgruber said:
... problem here is that Carmina Burana had not been composed until 1936, well into the Last Crusade time period.
Were the timeline disclaimers in the credits of the DVD episodes part of the the original broadcasts?
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Schubelgruber said:
So I ask: Was Erich von Stroheim a time traveler?
Welcome to The Raven, Amadeus Schubelgruber! Love your user name.:hat:
Montana Smith said:
Cue Stoo for some intelligent input. (y)
Nothing intelligent to say because I didn't even realize that the music was only written in 1936!:eek: I've been a fan of "O Fortuna" since hearing it in an Old Spice deodorant TV commercial in the late '70s (slow-motion footage of a surfer riding a huge wave). It was also used brilliantly in "Excalibur" in 1981.

Though I wonder the same as you. Honest mistake or deliberate anachronism?
Rocket Surgeon said:
Were the timeline disclaimers in the credits of the DVD episodes part of the the original broadcasts?
Yes, the disclaimer is in the original broadcasts.

"This is a work of fiction. While Young Indiana Jones is portrayed as taking part in historical events and meeting real figures in history, many of the characters in the story as well as the situations and scenes have been invented. In addition, where real historical figures and events are described, in some cases the chronology and historical facts have been altered for dramatic effect."
Attila the Professor said:
...the part that is used in the film is entitled "O Fortuna," and fortune certainly did not smile on von Stroheim, once they stopped letting him make his spectacles.
Very witty, Professor. Very, very witty.:)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Hi, CairoJones. Your best bet would probably be to have one custom made.

When "Miami Vice" became popular in the mid-'80s, that type of sparkly, gray material became pretty common on jackets and pants ('baggies'). Try looking in a used clothes store. If you can find a jacket similar to that: cut off the sleeves and get someone to fix it up and sew on some black trim for the pockets, etc.

Vests had a resurgance in popularity during the late '80s/early '90s but, by that time, the sparkly grey look was DEAD so I'd be surprised if you find any that are similar to what Indy wore.

Hope that helps.:)

P.S. I used to know the name of that material but Daley would probably know. Where are you, Daley?
 

Demitasse

Member
Interesting point Stoo! I wonder how much of an influence the early 90s had on wardrobe, costume etc overall. You're right-- I could just as easily imagine Joey Lawrence wearing a vest like this on Blossom or Dylan on 90210. Well, almost... (if it had tiger stripes maybe).

But I wonder if YIJC underwent the same kind of historical accuracy scrutiny that shows like Mad Men and Downton Abbey undergo nowadays. I know people on the Raven have discussed the accuracy of military outfits, planes etc. It would be great to have someone with the historical chops do a critique of the series and point out some of the major and minor missteps!
 

Crack that whip

New member
Demitasse said:
Interesting point Stoo! I wonder how much of an influence the early 90s had on wardrobe, costume etc overall. You're right-- I could just as easily imagine Joey Lawrence wearing a vest like this on Blossom or Dylan on 90210. Well, almost... (if it had tiger stripes maybe).

But I wonder if YIJC underwent the same kind of historical accuracy scrutiny that shows like Mad Men and Downton Abbey undergo nowadays. I know people on the Raven have discussed the accuracy of military outfits, planes etc. It would be great to have someone with the historical chops do a critique of the series and point out some of the major and minor missteps!

I'm pretty sure that's been done, and done more than once around here. It's certainly done often enough with the movies.

While I'm not much of a historian myself, I do suspect that because of the differences in tone, approach, purpose, etc. between the movies and the TV show, the show is probably actually more accurate, even despite the more limited resources per hour or whatever of footage. Certainly the movies take a lot of informed, deliberate, intentional bits of license with the historical record in the name of pulp entertainment; the TV show, while trying to maintain some connection to the movies, is very much more concerned with actual, real-world history (and culture, language, and everything else portrayed in the overall franchise) than the movies are, and probably gets a lot more stuff right.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Demitasse said:
Interesting point Stoo! I wonder how much of an influence the early 90s had on wardrobe, costume etc overall. You're right-- I could just as easily imagine Joey Lawrence wearing a vest like this on Blossom or Dylan on 90210. Well, almost... (if it had tiger stripes maybe).
Demitasse!:hat: Other than Flanery's haircut at times, I don't think the early '90s had much of an influence on the costumes. I've seen material like this on suits in old movies but I was merely pointing out where CairoJones could possibly find something similar. It'd be much easier to find 1986 threads in a used clothes store than it would to find something from c.1920!

In my opinion, the wardrobe crew did an outstanding job on all of the costumes. There are a few faults here & there, with some of the military uniforms, but they are miniscule details and don't detract from the overall believability.
Demitasse said:
Dylan on 90210
Ha! That's a name I've haven't heard a long time. People used to tell me that I looked like a mix between him and Kramer from "Seinfeld"!
Demitasse said:
But I wonder if YIJC underwent the same kind of historical accuracy scrutiny that shows like Mad Men and Downton Abbey undergo nowadays. I know people on the Raven have discussed the accuracy of military outfits, planes etc. It would be great to have someone with the historical chops do a critique of the series and point out some of the major and minor missteps!
As Crack said, we have done that before across various topics. As far as I'm aware, there is no single thread dedicated to the inaccuracies in the "Chronicles" so feel free to start one, if you wish.;)

Funny that you mention, "Mad Men" and "Downton Abbey". My girlfriend LOVES those shows. Just 2 nights ago, she mentioned reading about how "Downton Abbey" makes a big effort to make everything as historically accurate as possible. (Too bad she can't get into Young Indy!:()
 
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