Chachapoyan Temple light trap
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AnnieJones
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According to Indiana Jones The Ultimate Guide,on pages 60 and 61,it shows an illustration of the temple and on page 61 has the explanation for this,saying that there is a prismatic crystal that directs and intensifies a beam of light.I think when it says it's directing a beam of light,it is talking about directing the light of the sun,which means it wouldn't be an active booby trap at night.But it doesn't matter,because that temple has all those other booby traps.Junior Jones said:Where does the light that keeps the trap from activating come from? If it is an outside light, what happens at night, or for that matter, on a cloudy day, or if a plant grows over the opening which provides the light?
The Ultimate Guide's quadruple crossbow looked ridiculous. Here's another illustration. It's fanciful but not much more accurate.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99667814@N00/130552417
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99667814@N00/130552417
Stoo
Well-known member
Quoted from the link: "This is a supposed copy of a production illustration of the Chachapoyyan Temple layout from Raiders of the Lost Ark. You can see the boulder, the spikes, the pit and the idol sanctuary."Moedred said:
Fan-made. No doubt about it. "Lost Journal" also has a floorplan but I really like the cross-section in "Ultimate Guide", despite the ridiculous quadruple crossbow.
Speaking of censored scenes, I remember when the light trap bit was chopped a few weeks after the intial run (in Quebec anyway, don't know about the rest of Canada). It reappeared for the '82 re-release.
col.dietrich
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its was the suns rays reflecting off a diamond which shone into the temple
Montana Smith
Active member
The light trap appears to be the one truly mystical trap in the Chachapoyan temple. It's the one that defies mechanical explanation.
Whilst NLogan's idea of gas-filled bladders affected by temperature fluctuation is very inventive, it might not be practical.
Whilst the Hovitos were superstitious about the temple, and protective of it, the temple wasn't part of their tribal culture or history. The Chachapoyans were a different tribe and the mysteries were their preserve. It was a rite of passage for a young Chachapoyan warrior to bypass the traps and pay homage to the idol (though, not to pick it up, of course).
For practical reasons, all the traps in the temple had to have been robust enough to survive years without maintainance (after the Chachapoyans disappeared). Stone mechanisms could survive. Anything less than stone would be liable to rot or to be eaten by insects. The bladders would have to be preserved and made unpalatable to insects - the pitch might do this, but possible not the animal fat.
So, a shaft of light comes down from above. Indy extends his hand into it, without touching anything, and the trap is triggered. It looks mystical because it happens so quickly, and without a physical trigger. It works like a security light that works when an infra-red beam is broken.
The only things that work like that in nature, that I can think of, are plants, which turn towards the light. Even so, they don't turn instantly.
Of course, this is probably just attempting to find an answer to a question that was never originally posed. The light trap exists because it looked good on screen - Lucas and Spielberg could leave the explanations up to fans!
It would be easy to say that it's a supernatural trap, but all the other traps look mechanically real.
The closest I can get to an explanation is a simple variation of NLogan's: that the light from above hits another jewel, intensifying the beam somewhere beneath the floor. Maybe this generates a lot heat onto a trigger made of some material that heats and cools instantly. When the light is broken, the concentrated beam is cut off, and the trigger instantly cools and changes shape, releasing the trap. When light is restored, the trigger restores itself to its previous shape and the trap is gradually reset.
Whilst NLogan's idea of gas-filled bladders affected by temperature fluctuation is very inventive, it might not be practical.
Whilst the Hovitos were superstitious about the temple, and protective of it, the temple wasn't part of their tribal culture or history. The Chachapoyans were a different tribe and the mysteries were their preserve. It was a rite of passage for a young Chachapoyan warrior to bypass the traps and pay homage to the idol (though, not to pick it up, of course).
For practical reasons, all the traps in the temple had to have been robust enough to survive years without maintainance (after the Chachapoyans disappeared). Stone mechanisms could survive. Anything less than stone would be liable to rot or to be eaten by insects. The bladders would have to be preserved and made unpalatable to insects - the pitch might do this, but possible not the animal fat.
So, a shaft of light comes down from above. Indy extends his hand into it, without touching anything, and the trap is triggered. It looks mystical because it happens so quickly, and without a physical trigger. It works like a security light that works when an infra-red beam is broken.
The only things that work like that in nature, that I can think of, are plants, which turn towards the light. Even so, they don't turn instantly.
Of course, this is probably just attempting to find an answer to a question that was never originally posed. The light trap exists because it looked good on screen - Lucas and Spielberg could leave the explanations up to fans!
It would be easy to say that it's a supernatural trap, but all the other traps look mechanically real.
The closest I can get to an explanation is a simple variation of NLogan's: that the light from above hits another jewel, intensifying the beam somewhere beneath the floor. Maybe this generates a lot heat onto a trigger made of some material that heats and cools instantly. When the light is broken, the concentrated beam is cut off, and the trigger instantly cools and changes shape, releasing the trap. When light is restored, the trigger restores itself to its previous shape and the trap is gradually reset.
Just off the top of my head, but maybe there is some type of rudimentary Tesla mechanism working here. The spikes would have to be driven by some kind of weighted pulley/cam system since they only have a short distance to travel and gain momentum. But what triggers the cam system? Tesla pioneered the transmission of energy without wires. Maybe, just maybe, the light energy held a mechanism in a balanced state and any interruption to the light beam put the balance out thus triggering the spikes to move. This is implying advanced technology and of course Tesla was not working in South America even though he was alive in 1936. Maybe the same people who oversaw the construction of the temple also collaborated with Tesla, or he collaborated with them. I cannot imagine exactly what the technology or mechanism might be, but maybe someone can extrapolate?
Montana Smith
Active member
Mickiana said:
Mickiana, the temple was constructed long ago. The Chachapoyans have either died out or moved away. The Hovitos do not maintain the temple or its traps, though they are superstious about it.
But, Mickiana, when you wrote 'This is implying advanced technology...' the obvious answer struck me.
After KOTCS we can retrospectively explain the technology of the light trap as a 'gift' of knowledge from the inter-dimensional beings. Akator, and therefore the most recent resting place of the 13 beings, was also in Peru.
Montana Smith
Active member
Mickiana said:
Mickiana, the temple was constructed long ago. The Chachapoyans have either died out or moved away. The Hovitos do not maintain the temple or its traps, though they are superstious about it.
But, Mickiana, when you wrote 'This is implying advanced technology...' the obvious answer struck me.
After KOTCS we can retrospectively explain the technology of the light trap as a 'gift' of knowledge from the inter-dimensional beings. Akator, and therefore the most recent resting place of the 13 beings, was also in Peru.
Montana Smith
Active member
Mickiana said:
Looks like George was belatedly covering his tracks!
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Alright, here we go.
The Shaft of Light had nothing to do with the operation of the machine. It was merely a clue to the peril, (and maybe just a burrow which led to some hungry animal with a nose to it's stinky buffet ) or manner to deceive the warrior trying to pass the test.
The actual "trip wire" was something similar to the pressure plates in the corridor leading to and surrounding the idol's altar.
As was mentioned before, there's no longer anyone there to maintain the "machinery" so, it took a while to activate and catch Forrestal, (maybe this was one of the places the "good pieces" lined the wall as a distraction to the warriors main objective/test and possibly why Forrestal was caught and where Indy picked up a few) and with his added weight, (and decaying matter), "gummed" up the device long enough to produce the adequate suspense.
By the time Satipo came back through and the entire cavern was “on the move” it had “warmed up” enough.
Perhaps,maybe…possibly. I've seen more coincidences in the films that were MORE hokey!
The Shaft of Light had nothing to do with the operation of the machine. It was merely a clue to the peril, (and maybe just a burrow which led to some hungry animal with a nose to it's stinky buffet
) or manner to deceive the warrior trying to pass the test.The actual "trip wire" was something similar to the pressure plates in the corridor leading to and surrounding the idol's altar.
As was mentioned before, there's no longer anyone there to maintain the "machinery" so, it took a while to activate and catch Forrestal, (maybe this was one of the places the "good pieces" lined the wall as a distraction to the warriors main objective/test and possibly why Forrestal was caught and where Indy picked up a few) and with his added weight, (and decaying matter), "gummed" up the device long enough to produce the adequate suspense.
By the time Satipo came back through and the entire cavern was “on the move” it had “warmed up” enough.
Perhaps,maybe…possibly. I've seen more coincidences in the films that were MORE hokey!
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:The Shaft of Light had nothing to do with the operation of the machine. It was merely a clue to the peril, (and maybe just a burrow which led to some hungry animal with a nose to it's stinky buffet
The actual "trip wire" was something similar to the pressure plates in the corridor leading to and surrounding the idol's altar.
Rocket, that's what I thought the other day, until I re-watched that scene.
Indy didn't tread on anything. He stopped before entering the light, waited, then thrust his hand into the light. The trap then activated immediately. The trigger was his breaking the light with his hand.
That's why I deleted the post I added to this thread the other day, and why I fell back onto the mystical element of the trigger.
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Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Montana Smith said:
He passed to the side of the light opposite of Satipo I believe, and in doing do triggered the trap, the correlation and timing of breaking the light and springing the trap is the coincidence I "supposed". Ever been surprised by an old rubber band breaking? Depending on it's condition it can be difficult to predict the "minimum breaking distance."
Let's go further and say the actual trigger plate is the ENTIRE section of the floor wall to wall and almost as long as the pit...
As coincidence goes it's not as far fetched as Indy getting the hat the whip the scar the fear of snakes...etc in the give or take 15-30 minutes of his life that make up the prologue of Last Crusade, or to take Raiders as stand alone it's not as far fetched as skitching on the sub.
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Anything's possible, Rocket, as I don't think Lucas had figured out the mechanism. It's pulp so coincidence and a far-fetched plot are taken as a given. They go with the territory.
You're right that Indy skirted around the light to the opposite side, leaving Satipo on the original side.
The thing that strikes me, though, is that Indy was aware that the light was the danger. The moment he put his hand into it, the trap sprung.
It's the first instance in an Indiana Jones film of something that appears otherworldly. From that moment on the audience doesn't know what to expect. Now that we can look at them in hindsight, after four movies, a TV series, and lots of books, we know what to expect (more or less, but as with Monty Python's Spanish Inquistion, nobody expects a fridge!)
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
I don't think they did either...Montana Smith said:
Absolutely, I'm merely thinking of less "otherworldy explanations". I look at it this way: it's obvious as a first time viewer that Indy is working from an greater level of understanding, (of the culture/the technology/his cohorts) and Harrison gives the impression that the gears are always working, (his brain, not the trap that is!) and that everything is potentially lethal always came across to me, not that he KNEW what exactly, but that he knew SOMETHING was amiss.Montana Smith said:
I'm with you on it "keeping us in the dark" so to say, it never struck me as otherworldly, but it did leave me with questions. Questions I thought would be worth the explanation, explanations we never got!Montana Smith said:
Well, they danced along the tenuous line of plausibility always striving to remain believable while stretching credulity...which probably helps the "punch" of the Ark. Unfortunately, in my estimation, they abandoned that position in each subsequent outing in concept through execution. That emotion the Cobra elicits vs that damn fake snake in crusade...uck. So Skull was the "Comfy Chair" they tortured us with?Montana Smith said:
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Yes. That's what I like about Harrison as an actor - he really works on the character. He's very active and inventive as an actor, bringing little extra nuances to scenes that aren't marked in the script.
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm with you there too, about explanations. Without an 'official' explanation we're left to ponder here, which is fun in any case.
Rocket Surgeon said:Well, they danced along the tenuous line of plausibility always striving to remain believable while stretching credulity...which probably helps the "punch" of the Ark. Unfortunately, in my estimation, they abandoned that position in each subsequent outing in concept through execution. That emotion the Cobra elicits vs that damn fake snake in crusade...uck. So Skull was the "Comfy Chair" they tortured us with?
This is where I seem to differ from majority opinion. KOTCS didn't offend me, as I'd initially expected it would. When I look at all four films now, they form a complete world. It's not the same world we exist in, but one where much more is possible. Raiders used to bother me as it asked me to believe in God. Then Last Crusade asked me to believe that Jesus was the son of God. All the while I really liked the character of Indy, so I went with it. Now we have KOTCS everything falls nicely into place - I don't mind believing in inter-dimensional beings, as Raiders no longer has God and Last Crusade no longer has the son of God's cup. And to top it all, these inter-dimensionals also explain the light trap to me. All the while the character of Indy has remained constant.
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Well I belong to the two intersecting subsets that remain politically correct to belittle, The Irish and the Catholic. As Frued observed: "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever", because we don't care what you think.Montana Smith said:
I don't get offended easily, although I easy offend if you catch my meaning.I always liked the way they tempered the mythology: the power of God or something, and if you believe in that sort of thing.Montana Smith said:
I hear ya, but to the faithfull, God may as well have created the Interdimentional beings too.Montana Smith said:
But this is where we diverge, Indy to me has always dealt with historical mythologies, not current pop culture interpretations, (opening up can of worms
). I appreciate figurative language, (ala boats called "great birds" in the film 10,000 BC) and I think there is a creative and clever way to execute virtually any premise, I remain in the "Alien story disappointed me" camp. But it was great to see Indy again.
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:Well I belong to the two intersecting subsets that remain politically correct to belittle, The Irish and the Catholic. As Freud observed: "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever", because we don't care what you think.
Well, I have Irish roots from my mother's side of the family, so I can appreciate your meaning!
Rocket Surgeon said:I hear ya, but to the faithfull, God may as well have created the Interdimentional beings too.
But this is where we diverge, Indy to me has always dealt with historical mythologies, not current pop culture interpretations, (opening up can of worms
The 'Alien story' is really Erich von Daniken inspired, the writer of 'Chariots of the Gods', 'Gold of the Gods' etc, from the 1960s onwards. You have to read his books as fiction as he doesn't make a very good historian. If you take them with a big pinch of salt they make interesting reading, as a lot of the evidence (odd carvings and images) comes from Central and South America.