A major reason why many have attacked YIJ over the years is because it was "unbelievable" for Indy to meet the famous (or later to be famous) people that he did. To that I must ask, is it that much more unbelievable than one man happening to discover both the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy Grail, the Sankara Stones, and also uncovering an ancient alien civilization? Is it really all that different?
Young Indy & the Incredulous Critics
- Thread starter Raiders90
- Start date
Stoo
Well-known member
Raiders112390, you could have just revived any one of these below. (The last thread in the list is one of your own):
The Young Indy Chronicles were really really bad...
So What's The Appeal?
I got a problem with them...
Not a fan...
The Young Indiana Jones appreciation thread..
Young Indy = Awesome.
Many more to choose from as well...
The Young Indy Chronicles were really really bad...
So What's The Appeal?
I got a problem with them...
Not a fan...
The Young Indiana Jones appreciation thread..
Young Indy = Awesome.
Many more to choose from as well...
Last edited:
Perhaps this title edit will help.
Stoo
Well-known member
Then may I suggest this thread: I got a problem with them...
The believablity (or lack thereof) of Indy meeting famous people seems to be the main point of contention...and the thread title is as equally vague as yours.
EDIT: I see Attila has already addressed the issue!
The believablity (or lack thereof) of Indy meeting famous people seems to be the main point of contention...and the thread title is as equally vague as yours.
EDIT: I see Attila has already addressed the issue!
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Well I was in the critic camp, but ultimately, if Indy goes where the action is he stands the chance of meeting the movers and shakers.
I have to say (so far) Sidney Bechet, Ellot Ness, Scarface and Earnest Hemingway was a bit much...especially room mates.
I have to say (so far) Sidney Bechet, Ellot Ness, Scarface and Earnest Hemingway was a bit much...especially room mates.
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
It's difficult to rationalize the Young Indy series with reality. From the outset the character of Indy was being used by Lucas as a vehicle to take children on a tour through history. The closest I can get to seeing it as 'real' is, as your put it, with Indy going to where things are happening: first his father's tour, then his own adventures.
Yet it's all very incredible, just like his big screen adventures.
Another view is that Indy inhabits an episodic series, with many stories being self-contained. A Boy's Own adventurer appearing in his own weekly comic, intended to run almost forever. Such comic book heroes are also incredibly unrealistic - such as Batman who's existed on the page for over 70 years. (And existed for many years without aging before his first reboot). In this view we aren't meant to rationalize the character with a real life, since the character himself is the vehicle, either for education or adventure.
Stoo
Well-known member
Add yourself to that specific list of attackers. 6 months ago, in the thread: The Young Indy Chronicles were really really bad... you wrote this below:Raiders112390 said:
On any given day, it's difficult to understand where you're coming from.Raiders112390 said:
Lance Quazar
Well-known member
To address the original question posed by this thread, the "believability" issue -
The situations are entirely different.
Yes, it is very improbably to think of a single young man - even a world-traveler like young Indy - to come into contact with SO MANY significant historical figures, even if those associations were brief and transient.
However, you compare that situation to his later career unearthing remarkable artifacts.
Well, that second scenario is entirely different. Indy doesn't happen to stumble onto those discoveries. It's his friggin' job. And in at least two cases (the Ark, the Grail), he is hired by outside people who already have done at least part of the legwork.
It would be just as absurd if Indy just happened onto a series of improbably adventures with extraordinary, earth-shaking ramifications. On screen, he only really does so in "Temple of Doom" (and, it is implied, perhaps divine intervention was at play.)
Don't get me wrong, I love how ToD is different from the other films. No reason to think Indy can't stumble onto the occasional adventure.
But the other movies, even KotCS, were different in that Indy was actively brought into the adventure by outside characters/forces who specifically wanted his expertise. Indy is known the world over as an expert in his field.
Not remotely a series of "coincidences" like in the series.
You might as well say, "Wow, isn't it crazy that Bono has met so many presidents, world leaders and other luminaries and influential people?"
Well, no, not at all. Because he himself is an extremely popular musician and activist himself who is famous, wealthy, connected and a world-traveler.
But if you were to tell me that Bono happened to meet Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, not to mention young versions of Bill Gates and Oprah, all while he was in high school then, yeah, I might say that sounds a wee bit unlikely.
The situations are entirely different.
Yes, it is very improbably to think of a single young man - even a world-traveler like young Indy - to come into contact with SO MANY significant historical figures, even if those associations were brief and transient.
However, you compare that situation to his later career unearthing remarkable artifacts.
Well, that second scenario is entirely different. Indy doesn't happen to stumble onto those discoveries. It's his friggin' job. And in at least two cases (the Ark, the Grail), he is hired by outside people who already have done at least part of the legwork.
It would be just as absurd if Indy just happened onto a series of improbably adventures with extraordinary, earth-shaking ramifications. On screen, he only really does so in "Temple of Doom" (and, it is implied, perhaps divine intervention was at play.)
Don't get me wrong, I love how ToD is different from the other films. No reason to think Indy can't stumble onto the occasional adventure.
But the other movies, even KotCS, were different in that Indy was actively brought into the adventure by outside characters/forces who specifically wanted his expertise. Indy is known the world over as an expert in his field.
Not remotely a series of "coincidences" like in the series.
You might as well say, "Wow, isn't it crazy that Bono has met so many presidents, world leaders and other luminaries and influential people?"
Well, no, not at all. Because he himself is an extremely popular musician and activist himself who is famous, wealthy, connected and a world-traveler.
But if you were to tell me that Bono happened to meet Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, not to mention young versions of Bill Gates and Oprah, all while he was in high school then, yeah, I might say that sounds a wee bit unlikely.
Stoo said:
Hey, you want me gone from the site, just say it. You assail me everytime I post or make a thread with ancient threads and you specifically go searching for things I say. It's a little obsessive and creepy. If you want me off this forum, dude, just say it, don't be passive aggressive about it.
Jeremiah Jones
Member
Its not so unbelievable, I'm 28, in my time living in London working part time on alot of jobs I have met quite a few famous people, including, but not limited to: Gordon Brown, Richard Branson, Ben Kingsley, Martin Scorsese, Prince Philip, Micheal Caine, Shirley Bassey, Joan Collins, Kevin Spacey, etc.. thats of course not including people I know very well who may one day be famous themselves.
In the case of Young Indy, he did naturally hang in circles where meeting celebrities was likely. While traveling with Henry Snr on his lecture tour the Jones family usually stayed with ambassadors, diplomats and journalists, they attended conferences where famous people where giving lectures, and were of course invited to meet them as respected members of high society. The traveling professor and his charming wife, with their precocious son. It makes sense to me, at least in terms of this part of his life that celebrity was hardly something that would pass him by.
In his teenage years, Indy was not relegated to a class room, he was out in the world, trying to stop the war, getting involved in big events, meeting big people, mainly because he was putting himself into the spheres in which they operated.
Yes, I admit some of the meetings are faintly ridiculous, the chances of Indy sharing a dorm room with Eliot Ness being of course 1000 to 1, indeed most of the initial meetings in scandal of 1920 smack of silliness, but scandal can get away with it, its entire oeuvre pivots on a certain 1920s happy go lucky silliness.
But basically, if you're out in the world, actively seeking to throw a wrench into the gears of history, you'll probably encounter some movers and shakers. I mean, right now, if I were to go over and volunteer to fight Gaddaffi in Lybia alongside the rebels, theres a chance I would befriend, or at least encounter people who could go on to be political leaders, or daring adventurers we've not heard of yet, or some CIA men movies will be made about, or fellow European romantics like myself, who may or may not be destined for greatness. Future Hemingways, future Ness's.
Basically, I don't think its that far fetched, and if it is; well its never bothered me. I love history, and whats so bad about learning about real people through the eyes of Indy?
Hey and Raiders112390, I think the words you want to say to Stoo are "Its a fair cop" he has you on that one, backed up in evidence. Laugh it off, no need to get all riled up.
In the case of Young Indy, he did naturally hang in circles where meeting celebrities was likely. While traveling with Henry Snr on his lecture tour the Jones family usually stayed with ambassadors, diplomats and journalists, they attended conferences where famous people where giving lectures, and were of course invited to meet them as respected members of high society. The traveling professor and his charming wife, with their precocious son. It makes sense to me, at least in terms of this part of his life that celebrity was hardly something that would pass him by.
In his teenage years, Indy was not relegated to a class room, he was out in the world, trying to stop the war, getting involved in big events, meeting big people, mainly because he was putting himself into the spheres in which they operated.
Yes, I admit some of the meetings are faintly ridiculous, the chances of Indy sharing a dorm room with Eliot Ness being of course 1000 to 1, indeed most of the initial meetings in scandal of 1920 smack of silliness, but scandal can get away with it, its entire oeuvre pivots on a certain 1920s happy go lucky silliness.
But basically, if you're out in the world, actively seeking to throw a wrench into the gears of history, you'll probably encounter some movers and shakers. I mean, right now, if I were to go over and volunteer to fight Gaddaffi in Lybia alongside the rebels, theres a chance I would befriend, or at least encounter people who could go on to be political leaders, or daring adventurers we've not heard of yet, or some CIA men movies will be made about, or fellow European romantics like myself, who may or may not be destined for greatness. Future Hemingways, future Ness's.
Basically, I don't think its that far fetched, and if it is; well its never bothered me. I love history, and whats so bad about learning about real people through the eyes of Indy?
Hey and Raiders112390, I think the words you want to say to Stoo are "Its a fair cop" he has you on that one, backed up in evidence. Laugh it off, no need to get all riled up.
Jeremiah Jones said:Its not so unbelievable, I'm 28, in my time living in London working part time on alot of jobs I have met quite a few famous people, including, but not limited to: Gordon Brown, Richard Branson, Ben Kingsley, Martin Scorsese, Prince Philip, Micheal Caine, Shirley Bassey, Joan Collins, Kevin Spacey, etc.. thats of course not including people I know very well who may one day be famous themselves.
In the case of Young Indy, he did naturally hang in circles where meeting celebrities was likely. While traveling with Henry Snr on his lecture tour the Jones family usually stayed with ambassadors, diplomats and journalists, they attended conferences where famous people where giving lectures, and were of course invited to meet them as respected members of high society. The traveling professor and his charming wife, with their precocious son. It makes sense to me, at least in terms of this part of his life that celebrity was hardly something that would pass him by.
In his teenage years, Indy was not relegated to a class room, he was out in the world, trying to stop the war, getting involved in big events, meeting big people, mainly because he was putting himself into the spheres in which they operated.
Yes, I admit some of the meetings are faintly ridiculous, the chances of Indy sharing a dorm room with Eliot Ness being of course 1000 to 1, indeed most of the initial meetings in scandal of 1920 smack of silliness, but scandal can get away with it, its entire oeuvre pivots on a certain 1920s happy go lucky silliness.
But basically, if you're out in the world, actively seeking to through a wrench in the big movements of history, you'll probably see some movers and shakers. I mean, if I were to go over and volunteer to fight Gaddaffi in Lybia alongside the rebels right now, I could befriend people who could go on to be political leaders, or fellow European romantics like myself, who may or may not be destined for greatness. Future Hemingways, future Ness's.
Basically, I don't think its that far fetched, and if it is; well its never bothered me. I love history, and whats so bad about learning about real people through the eyes of Indy?
Hey and Raiders112390, I think the words you want to say to Stoo are "Its a fair cop" he has you on that one, backed up in evidence. Laugh it off, no need to get all riled up.
I agree with all your points..and also it doesn't bother me because Indy's a fictional character. In a fictional universe, anything can happen.
If you can accept:
A world where at least the Christian God, the Hindu God, and Aliens as God-like beings all exist
A man surviving his heart being ripped out
One man discovering two of the most important Judeo-Christian relics of all time
Encountering an alien civilization
Finding the most precious relics of a Hindu community and even successfully invoking the powers of Shiva
A man gaining a famous scar, a lifelong fear of snakes, an inspiration for his future attire and a hat he'd wear all his life in all of 15 minutes.
Surviving a 1000 feet fall from an airplane using a raft
A man surviving the tank chase
A man with a gun shot wound to the arm dragging himself behind a truck which is going at high speed on a harsh desert floor, pulling himself against the weight of said truck and even climbing up it as it's driving and still being full of energy, much less surviving it
A man being shot at by dozens of Nazis, Thuggees, and later Soviets and not being picked off
A massive Nazi run excavation occurring in Egypt in 1936 even though the British controlled Egypt
The mine cart chase
A man surviving the rope bridge collapse, slamming against a mountain side with no injuries
A 58 year old man surviving a nuclear blast and coming out without any broken bones or even too many scratches by hiding in a bridge
Than I don't see why one can't accept the coincidences of the YIJC, especially considering as you said, the circumstances. For all we know, in Indy's world, his father was rather famous, the series does mention he wrote a VERY successful book which led to the lecture tour; TOD implies Indy is also rather famous himself, his name being known as far away as Oxford as an 'eminent archeologist.'
Stoo
Well-known member
Not at all, Raiders112390.Raiders112390 said:
You've mentioned this fear before and I've previously told you that your paranoia is misplaced. (Indiana Jones and Rick O'Connell crossover)PLUS, a short while ago I wrote that I was GLAD to see you back after you created a thread about your public request to have your account deleted. You must have missed it...(I won't bother finding said post in case you think it's too creepy.
) I have a good memory and find that some of the things you say contradict what you've stated earlier. Simple as that! ...and I don't "assail" you "everytime" you post. It's a relief to see you bumping threads (especially your own) instead of starting new ones.
Back on topic:
Not to mention, Indy grew up to be quite famous/infamous himself.Rocket Surgeon said:
InexorableTash
Active member
Raiders112390 said:
One of my favorite aspects of YIJC - along with the music and the locations - is that it is actually plausible for someone with the right amount of opportunity and luck to have travelled as Indy did and met all of those people who shaped the 20th Century. Sure, Lucas tweaked the timeline a tiny bit here and there to arrange some meet-ups, but for the most part it holds together.
I can see how it strains the credibility of armchair critics from the early 21st Century. On the other hand, it does not strain the laws of physics.
The implied transition - from wide-eyed but rather oblivious child to slack-jawed but slightly cynical teen-ager to worldly but reckless adult to wise and introspective elder - is also very nicely done. Young Indy had no idea that the people he was meeting would become famous. They set up an adult Indy to have contacts around the world and move in society circles. Old Indy was able to look back on his life and realize how lucky he was.
Montana Smith
Active member
Stoo said:
When I just posted in 'Wyoming 1950', I realized that my tangent belongs here, too.
Smiffy said:
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
The saving grace is that he met many before they were "great" as well and treated them as such...Stoo said:
Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Indy is that wonderful thing: an enlightened rogue.
I wonder what that other rogue, young Belloq, was like growing up, and how he would have treated the same people?
Stoo
Well-known member
In another thread (YIJC vs. KOTCS) Rocket wrote:
Considering "Forrest Gump" was released in 1994, he couldn't have got the idea from there. However, Lucas may have been inspired by Woody Allen's, "Zelig".Rocket Surgeon said: