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Old 05-31-2010, 05:14 AM   #26
Adventure_fox
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if he was, by the end of the film he knows there is a god XD after he witness all that, who would be atheist after eh? XD
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:56 AM   #27
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Ask agents Scully.

I'm sure Indy found faith, if not religion. Faith in what, exactly, seems suggestive at best, but open to interpretation. As it should be.
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:30 PM   #28
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Considering ToD, I'd say he's at least agnostic in Raiders. I'd like to think by the end of LC he's some sort of Christian, being one myself. But I think this is why Spielberg and Lucas never clarified it- for each of us he can be whatever we want, and still be out hero.
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:52 PM   #29
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Ask agents Scully.

I'm sure Indy found faith, if not religion. Faith in what, exactly, seems suggestive at best, but open to interpretation. As it should be.

Yes. I like the idea of an active pantheon in the Indyverse but that by no means I think it should be applied to the real world.

It's far more interesting for me that there are interdimensional beings flying around the same world with vampires, zombies, unicorns (if they're weren't wiped out by the Genesis Deluge), ghosts, carpenters with healing powers, Bigfoot/Chewbacca, dinosaurs, time travel, robots and deities that you really shouldn't annoy if you're going to play in their sandbox.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:14 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Perhilion
Considering ToD, I'd say he's at least agnostic in Raiders. I'd like to think by the end of LC he's some sort of Christian, being one myself. But I think this is why Spielberg and Lucas never clarified it- for each of us he can be whatever we want, and still be out hero.

I feel the same way. I am also a christian and would like to think that Indy is one as well but I understand the need for Spielberg and Lucas to never confirm anything. Overall Indy is an academic, he comes from a Christian background via his father but perhaps was only a nominal one himself for most of his life. I dont take his line in Raiders to mean that he believed in nothing supernatural at all but rather he took all "folklore" with a grain skepticism and wasnt scared by stories that would scare the more supersticious.

In Last Crusade his father is portrayed as the man that is more overtly religious and his son as one with a faith less defined, less open. The leap of faith scene is powerfull though, I had a priest in a Catholic church actually show it once during a sermon.

The question is what denomination is Indy? Given his father is implied to be scottish I imagine presbetyrian. Can anyone tell what denomination the wedding service was at the end of KOTCS?
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:10 PM   #31
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It's far more interesting for me that there are interdimensional beings flying around the same world with vampires, zombies, unicorns (if they're weren't wiped out by the Genesis Deluge), ghosts, carpenters with healing powers, Bigfoot/Chewbacca, dinosaurs, time travel, robots and deities that you really shouldn't annoy if you're going to play in their sandbox.

Say what you feel Laoland Che(e)...

However the films aren't held to the any expanded universe material, (and by that I mean ANYTHING thats NOT a FILM).

I enjoy some of the expanded material, but I don't take it very seriously. It's entertaining, but so volitile and subject to change.

I am the father of [the films] that's my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father's world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.

After that Lucas quote, I'm pretty secure in the feeling that Indy is a Christian...
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:34 AM   #32
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Order...

ToD happens before Raiders. I noted someone mentioned it as a sequel, which in the theaters it is, but chronologically it preceeds RotLA.

As for Indy's beliefs, he strikes me as agnostic for starters...a scientist in search of "fact, not truth." I know, that's from TLC, but that's where we meet Indy in ToD...he's quite objective.

By the end of RotLA, he seems hooked on the awe that comes from the supernatural, and by TLC's close, even though we don't get any real insight into what he believes, he seems less skeptical of things relating to the supernatural in general and Christianity specifically.

"Oh, I believe, sister. That's why I'm down here." The way he says that in KotCS makes it sound like he means "I believe these creatures are real; that's why I'm over here and not up there next to you...so if they're going to melt our faces, I want a head start." The way it reads in the script, it seems like he means, "I have faith/beliefs; that's why I do what I do." I believe the latter is more accurately what that line means, despite what it sounds like in the film.

As a scientist, Indiana would likely choose his faith based on the most solid reason. I haven't read the rest of this thread, so I don't know where you all are on that idea or if it's even been posed before now.

Last edited by Walton : 06-01-2010 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:59 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lao_Che
I like the idea of an active pantheon in the Indyverse but that by no means I think it should be applied to the real world.

This is interesting to me. I agree with the first half of the quote but not the second. The real world is a sort of pantheon...in that we live in a world where different cultures believe different things; heck, the members of the same household believe different things. Aliens, if there are such beings, do not change my beliefs. Zombies wouldn't. Pagan idols or magic rocks...nope. What kind of faith is it that get rocked by "inter-dimensional beings" anyway?

Think about it. Indy's standing there in the presence of saucermen from Mars...and I figure, if he's got any faith, he's praying. I would be, 'cause who knows, these things might melt my face and the face of everyone dear to me. He gets out alive...so God is merciful. God listened.

Just saying, for instance...though there's no hint that it went down that way in Indy's head, though the fact is he and his made it out alive.

If there's one thing the study of history shows us, we live an a world of many gods and monsters. Certainly, I believe there is only one true God, but the fact that many profess in another god or assert that God does not exist (how could they possibly know that?) means that in a sense, we live in an active pantheon...because men will rationalize whatever action based on the God, god, or monster they worship.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:40 PM   #34
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Say what you feel Laoland Che(e)...

However the films aren't held to the any expanded universe material, (and by that I mean ANYTHING thats NOT a FILM).

I enjoy some of the expanded material, but I don't take it very seriously. It's entertaining, but so volitile and subject to change.

I am the father of [the films] that's my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father's world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.

After that Lucas quote, I'm pretty secure in the feeling that Indy is a Christian...

This is because I typed 'sandbox' ain't it? Unless a film specifically refutes an aspect of the EU stuff I don't see why it can't be taken on board. Personal choice, obviously. The Lucas except-for-KotCS purists can think what they like. The other media will just adapt around the new information anyway. The Star Wars ones will at least.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:44 AM   #35
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This is because I typed 'sandbox' ain't it?
Nah, I just like mixing it up on the playground.
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Originally Posted by Lao_Che
Unless a film specifically refutes an aspect of the EU stuff I don't see why it can't be taken on board. Personal choice, obviously.
It all boils down to choice, but the legacy remains...

The effort put forth for Raiders dwarfs any of the sequels or EU iterations. It was Indiana Jones: Adventure Hero. I recently interviewed Max McCoy for an upcoming Indy Cast and he put it perfectly: he evolved into a "Superhero".

Regarding personal taste, I enjoyed the attitude of Raiders because it reminded me of what was so cool about those early Eastwood westerns, (as a practical example, but not soley). If you took out the supernatural ending and made it a gun fight I would still have loved the film, (execution being king of course).
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The Lucas except-for-KotCS purists can think what they like. The other media will just adapt around the new information anyway. The Star Wars ones will at least.
Well, thats an interesting position, but I like how Max approached it, (and think it can be replicated even today).
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:43 AM   #36
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I always thought Indy was a super-hero, his super power being in the form of supernatural good luck when it comes to self-preservation.

Having that much luck must have given Indy something to believe in.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:23 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I always thought Indy was a super-hero, his super power being in the form of supernatural good luck when it comes to self-preservation.

Having that much luck must have given Indy something to believe in.

Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:32 AM   #38
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Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.
A toe? Or are you thinking "in the box"?
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:37 AM   #39
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Ha! I heard the joke was he was the guy who had all his fingers plugging holes in a dam, thought he had it under control, then noticed one more hole forming just out of reach...which forces him to pull something heroic.

An even more heroic feat than the average man, since Supes and other such heroes like to wear their underpants on the outside!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:40 AM   #40
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delete me...
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:05 AM   #41
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delete me...

You said that before. I think you're in need of a reboot. Get C-3PO to jack into you for a new upload.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:13 AM   #42
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Point is he's heroic by virtue of dumb luck...most of the time.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:26 AM   #43
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Point is he's heroic by virtue of dumb luck...most of the time.

Yes. I just wrote in another thread that Indy could be 'winging it' a lot of the time. Making it up as he goes along, without a specific plan. Relying on luck - which is where I'm thinking his true faith lies.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:50 PM   #44
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" Any of you guys ever go to Sunday school?"



That should answer your question
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #45
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" Any of you guys ever go to Sunday school?"



That should answer your question

I went.

When I was 14 I really began to question, and have been an atheist ever since.

Religion is one of those cultural things that can just happen to you because you grow up with it. My thoughts began with, "what are the chances that this precise religion is the correct one, just because I was born into it?" Then I began some serious reading into history, and nothing has since in the slightest changed my views. Rather, things have made my disbelief stronger.

Indy might have gone to Sunday School, but later events and study might have shaken his beliefs. We just don't know from the evidence provided by the films.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:35 PM   #46
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I went.

When I was 14 I really began to question, and have been an atheist ever since.

Religion is one of those cultural things that can just happen to you because you grow up with it. My thoughts began with, "what are the chances that this precise religion is the correct one, just because I was born into it?" Then I began some serious reading into history, and nothing has since in the slightest changed my views. Rather, things have made my disbelief stronger.

Indy might have gone to Sunday School, but later events and study might have shaken his beliefs. We just don't know from the evidence provided by the films.

Interesting. I went through a period where I decided not to believe in God. Is it different for you than for me? It seems you determined God does not exist. I concluded He does but went out of my way to ignore all things that would make me think about God.
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:47 AM   #47
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You said that before. I think you're in need of a reboot. Get C-3PO to jack into you for a new upload.
Um...nothing like advertising, though I'd be worried that 3PO might give me a bad case of "dust contamination".
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:45 AM   #48
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Um...nothing like advertising, though I'd be worried that 3PO might give me a bad case of "dust contamination".

I'd recommend a thorough oil bath just to be on the safe side...
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Old 06-06-2010, 04:24 PM   #49
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I'd recommend a thorough oil bath just to be on the safe side...
This is gettin Nasty!
You can relate to it with your contemporary mores and attempt to translate the film into your own comfort zone...
Really though, Indy was raised Christian and last we saw recieved a sacrament inside a Church.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:31 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
This is gettin Nasty!

Never nasty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
You can relate to it with your contemporary mores and attempt to translate the film into your own comfort zone...
Really though, Indy was raised Christian and last we saw recieved a sacrament inside a Church.

Yes. Like I wrote before. There's no evidence that Indy was an atheist. You might as well ask whether Toht was into wearing ladies' underwear.
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