God's Loyalty

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 25, 2009

Indy's Fist said:
Your answers are careful to avoid the questions. That could be seen as arrogant, making it difficult for some to accept your wisdom.

Really? Your choice of words makes me wonder about your assumptions. I answered your "who's to say" post, and your other was merely a statement I was commenting on. Do you have a specific example?

It COULD be read as arrogant, but that all depends on YOU. It can be difficult to read tone into text, so I won't apologize, but I can assure you when I'm being sarcastic there's NO question.

I suppose if you can be vauge with your critisms, I can as well...

Good! You should question a persons wisdom, but, point being, consider it!

bennihana123 · Jun 25, 2009

Does anyone else find it strange that the Indy movies are my favorite films, yet I don't believe in a god? They all revolve around a higher power of sorts.

Mickiana · Jun 26, 2009

Not at all strange. Indy flicks revolve around spiritual/mystical matters without getting too deep into them, which is the point. There's a bit of everything in an Indy flick.

Andrew Wilson · Jun 27, 2009

What a thread!

Having recently joined The Raven, it is fascinating to see the way this thread started life as a question about God punishing the Egyptians and Nazis for messing with the Ark, but failing to do the same to the Americans for storing it in a warehouse!
As one contributor put it quite early on: It was because the film had to have an acceptable ending! Quite so. It sometimes doesn't do to look too deeply into these things!

Insomniac · Jun 27, 2009

Ya the ending makes the movie like Casablanca or any other classic! :hat:

Welcome to the Raven!

Perhilion · Jun 27, 2009

Insomniac said:
If god was mad at the Egyptians for stealling the Ark from the temple of Solomon and punished them by engulfing Tanis in a sandstorm and then over 2000 years later burning the nazi symbol off the crate that the Ark of the Covenant was inside Bantu Wind.

How come the Carte, Warehouse and the U.S. wasn't punished?

Does God have a loyalty to the US?

Why?

the warehouse didn't explode in a pillar of fire because the ark was lost among all the other crates. it was hidden again, not being disturbed. unlike the egyptians or nazis.

Attila the Professor · Jun 27, 2009

Perhilion said:
the warehouse didn't explode in a pillar of fire because the ark was lost among all the other crates. it was hidden again, not being disturbed. unlike the egyptians or nazis.

I'm not sure that jibes with what happened to Tanis. Shishaq disturbed it and hid it away in the Well of the Souls, just like the Americans. Then the city was consumed in the sandstorm that lasted a whole year. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in the warehouse?

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 27, 2009

Attila the Professor said:
I'm not sure that jibes with what happened to Tanis. Shishaq disturbed it and hid it away in the Well of the Souls, just like the Americans. Then the city was consumed in the sandstorm that lasted a whole year. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in the warehouse?

Well, God changed his mind didn't he? He EVOLVED from a vengefull God to a loving God. He even sent us his son, right?

Attila the Professor · Jun 27, 2009

Rocket Surgeon said:
Well, God changed his mind didn't he? He EVOLVED from a vengefull God to a loving God. He even sent us his son, right?

And we also see God being a lot less active even as the Old Testament wears on, but I can't help but get the feeling that theology is trumped by our discovery that the Ark works precisely as it always did, as evidenced by the climax of Raiders.

kongisking · Jun 27, 2009

bennihana123 said:
Does anyone else find it strange that the Indy movies are my favorite films, yet I don't believe in a god?

Thus, the reason I love the livin' sh!t out of KOTCS. The "gods" turn out to be inter-dimensional beings! A logical explaination for religion! Why?

Something like, "Super-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"...

Plus, I just am a science-fiction person. It's the genre of IDEAS. Fantasy, though, is the genre of IMAGINATION. Sci-fi asks "what if..." while fantasy asks "Wouldn't it be great if..." Sure, the Indy trilogy was unbelievably awesome, but KOTCS was like a dream come true for me. Two of my favorite things: Indiana Jones and Science-Fiction, together! It doesn't get better than this, fellas...

Perhilion · Jun 27, 2009

Attila the Professor said:
I'm not sure that jibes with what happened to Tanis. Shishaq disturbed it and hid it away in the Well of the Souls, just like the Americans. Then the city was consumed in the sandstorm that lasted a whole year. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in the warehouse?

yes, but Shishak plundered Israel, stealing the Ark and placing it among idols, thus defiling it.

Insomniac · Jun 27, 2009

Yep KongisKing has proved again why KotCS Was awesome an alternative view to "Gods" and questions what we think is the basis!

Attila the Professor · Jun 27, 2009

Perhilion said:
yes, but Shishak plundered Israel, stealing the Ark and placing it among idols, thus defiling it.

How is that different from what Indy (with some Nazi interference) and the Americans did?

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 28, 2009

Insomniac said:
Yep KongisKing has proved again why KotCS Was awesome an alternative view to "Gods" and questions what we think is the basis!

I truly feel sorry for you two, if that is what makes Skull enjoyable. But, there's no accounting for taste.

And Space Ghost proves there ARE ghosts in space! :hat:

Perhilion · Jun 28, 2009

Attila the Professor said:
How is that different from what Indy (with some Nazi interference) and the Americans did?

well for one thing Indy never touched the Ark, which is what really gets you killed. second, where as Shishak stole it from the Israelites, God's people, Indy was simply recovering it. I also think he had a certain respect for it, something Shishak and the Nazis lacked. But judging by the storm clouds that came as Indy was digging, God wasn't too pleased. I think of Indy not watching the opening of the Ark as his act of contrition which saved him.

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 28, 2009

Perhilion said:
well for one thing Indy never touched the Ark, which is what really gets you killed. second, where as Shishak stole it from the Israelites, God's people, Indy was simply recovering it. I also think he had a certain respect for it, something Shishak and the Nazis lacked. But judging by the storm clouds that came as Indy was digging, God wasn't too pleased. I think of Indy not watching the opening of the Ark as his act of contrition which saved him.

Consider Shishak actually trying to use the ark, over and over, sacrificing his priests and slaves in each and every attempt abusing the ark and bringing the finality of the year long sandstorm on his people and himself. As opposed to transporting it and locking it away.

Attila the Professor · Jun 28, 2009

Rocket Surgeon said:
Consider Shishak actually trying to use the ark, over and over, sacrificing his priests and slaves in each and every attempt abusing the ark and bringing the finality of the year long sandstorm on his people and himself. As opposed to transporting it and locking it away.

I don't know that we really know that he did any of that. What we do know, however, is that he locked it up in a chamber without any apparent entranceways other than through the roof, and created another chamber with an elaborate map of the city that could point to the Ark.

He might have done what you say - but I'm not sure how well it fits in with what we do know that he did, which, frankly, isn't all that different from the scenario in which the Ark got to Area 51.

Now, some people have a distant memory of a shot of the crate in the warehouse, back in Raiders, of the numbers on that crate being burned the same way the Nazi crate did. I have no recollection of that, however, and have failed to be persuaded by those who do.

Indy's Fist · Jun 28, 2009

Rocket Surgeon said:
Really? Your choice of words makes me wonder about your assumptions. I answered your "who's to say" post, and your other was merely a statement I was commenting on. Do you have a specific example?

It COULD be read as arrogant, but that all depends on YOU. It can be difficult to read tone into text, so I won't apologize, but I can assure you when I'm being sarcastic there's NO question.

I suppose if you can be vauge with your critisms, I can as well...

Good! You should question a persons wisdom, but, point being, consider it!

I'm glad you placed emphasis on "could". I purposly used the word could as I'm not saying it's arrogant, but someone might read it that way. I meant no ill will to you or your replys.

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 28, 2009

Indy's Fist said:
I'm glad you placed emphasis on "could". I purposly used the word could as I'm not saying it's arrogant, but someone might read it that way. I meant no ill will to you or your replys.

Cheers...

Rocket Surgeon · Jun 28, 2009

Attila the Professor said:
I don't know that we really know that he did any of that. What we do know, however, is that he locked it up in a chamber without any apparent entranceways other than through the roof, and created another chamber with an elaborate map of the city that could point to the Ark.

I'm not saying it happened, only proposing a senario to explain why Warehouse 51 didn't suffer the same fate.

Attila the Professor said:
He might have done what you say - but I'm not sure how well it fits in with what we do know that he did, which, frankly, isn't all that different from the scenario in which the Ark got to Area 51.

Time being elastic, it makes sense to me to take it away so it couldn't be used against him and to try an use it himself. There are many many reasons he might have shut it up in the Well. One of them what I mentioned...but in no way difinitive!

Attila the Professor said:
Now, some people have a distant memory of a shot of the crate in the warehouse, back in Raiders, of the numbers on that crate being burned the same way the Nazi crate did. I have no recollection of that, however, and have failed to be persuaded by those who do.

That's easy, it never happened. It seems to me this crate would have been VERY different.

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