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View Poll Results: Honestly...will there be another Indy film in the next decade?
Absolutely!!! I'm in lala land 52 36.11%
Maybe...but not today. 53 36.81%
No, not with any of the current creators and members. 19 13.19%
Heck no, no denial issues here. 8 5.56%
I may not like it, but a Re-boot is possible within the decade 18 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2011, 07:53 PM   #5401
The Drifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
It certainly is pulpier, at least to my untrained eye. Roger Ebert also identifies it as being, as opposed to Raiders's "exotic road picture," to belong to the Impregnable Fortress Impregnated formula.

But I think it also has strong horror elements, with killers emerging from nowhere, magical blood, demonic possession, voodoo dolls, flayed human skins, and, of course, a heart being ripped out of its owner's body. After all, the India adventure was conceived after an earlier haunted castle idea.

Yes, but so does the pulp stories of the day. They were rife with horror elements. The supernatural, the occult (as in Doom's case), etc. That gives it an even better footing at being inspired by the early pulp stories.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:21 PM   #5402
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Originally Posted by The Drifter
Yes, but so does the pulp stories of the day. They were rife with horror elements. The supernatural, the occult (as in Doom's case), etc. That gives it an even better footing at being inspired by the early pulp stories.

Well, it has strong horror elements infused into an adventuring archaeologist story, just as Crystal Skull is science fiction infused into the same.

Along these lines, I've never quite known what the whole "Boys Own" thing means with regards to Last Crusade. I know Ebert's review talks about that, and I have a vague sense, but I'm not sure I see how that applies more to Last Crusade with the exception of the Young Indy and Henry Sr. elements. Is there more to it than that?

It possibly feels as though there are two different discussions going on here, as exemplified by Darth's "1950s B movie/sci fi." I've similarly conflated these ideas before, but there's a question of genre (or, really, genre additives) and then there's a question of form or tone or some better term that I'm not finding now. Complicating this even further is that each film is taking different mythologies and traditions and smashing them together.

It may be that Temple of Doom is the only one with any strong genre additive, with its horror elements, as even Crystal Skull, which has the second-best case, isn't so much science fiction as it is an adventure film using aliens as part of its mythological backstory. (In the sense that Roswell-style aliens + Meso-Americans + the ancient astronaut theory = the Crystal Skull mythos, just as early Christianity + medieval chivalric romance = Last Crusade's.)

What I'm loosely denoting as the question of form or tone is one that Darth's categories above, or the Saturday matinee serial/violent pulp fiction/Warner Brothers big budget adventure/1950s B-movie delineation that avidfilmbuff used to offer seems to be answering. Now, there's reason to doubt this sort of description in the first place, as has been mentioned before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Saturday matinee serials = "pulp fiction" and Hollywood made adventure B-flicks, too. While I do understand what you're trying to distinguish, there are traces of all 4 of those elements in every Indy film. Point being, Indiana Jones movies are NOT Bs! They are made from top-notch talent in EVERY area.

...but I nevertheless feel that it is quite easy and sensible to recognize that each of them has different elements to varying degrees.

Really, the genre never changes; they're always adventure films, in the treasure-hunting subgenre. But consider the Western: there are more urban, crime-related Westerns. There are ones with epic overtones. Some are closely related to the war picture, as with John Ford's cavalry films and other lesser pictures. There are family sagas, there are comedies, and there are sometimes even ghosts. (And this entirely leaves aside all of the definite subcategories that the Western itself has that are unique to it, including the three most obvious: settlers & Indians, ranchers & farmers, lawmen & outlaws.)

And just as the Western is often infused with some elements of other genres, so it is with the Indy stories.

None of which is to argue that there isn't room for more horror elements in a fifth film than Temple of Doom had, but I think it had more horror than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull had science fiction.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:58 PM   #5403
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Originally Posted by Darth Vile
That would be my take...

1) Republic serials
2) Horror
3) Boys own adventure
4) 1950's B movie/sci fi
5) Spy/Espionage??? Musical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drifter
I don't see Doom as horror. Sure, it has horror elements (which I stated in another thread today), I see it as a homage to the pulp stories of the 20's and 30's. Raider's was a homage to the serials of that time, and I see Doom as a homage to pulp. Oriental Stories magazine, rings a bell in my head sometimes while watching Doom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
It certainly is pulpier, at least to my untrained eye. Roger Ebert also identifies it as being, as opposed to Raiders's "exotic road picture," to belong to the Impregnable Fortress Impregnated formula.

But I think it also has strong horror elements, with killers emerging from nowhere, magical blood, demonic possession, voodoo dolls, flayed human skins, and, of course, a heart being ripped out of its owner's body. After all, the India adventure was conceived after an earlier haunted castle idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drifter
Yes, but so does the pulp stories of the day. They were rife with horror elements. The supernatural, the occult (as in Doom's case), etc. That gives it an even better footing at being inspired by the early pulp stories.

Personally, KOTCS is the first film to feel like anything other than a direct offshoot of the serials. It's much more '50s B movie than '30s/'40s cliff-hanger. Though it might also be true to say that it reflects the time when the cliff-hangers had become poor parodies of themselves.

TOD ventured deeper into horror than the serials, but the story was inspired by them. From my viewing so far, Jungle Girl (1941) still looks like the main pulp inspiration, since TOD shares a number of the same elements with this single source. The difference is that the horror goes deeper in 1984.

In comparison KOTCS seems much more inspired by the '50s atomic age B movie, which might also be an element that was creeping into the bad serials of that period:



Yet, Canadian Mounties vs. Atomic Invaders (1953) didn't concern aliens, but the more traditional pulp spy story.

KOTCS, however, sets a precedent for a move into new genres.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:10 PM   #5404
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It's going to be different this time...they've changed. They won't make the same mistakes. It's going to be better than ever!
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:13 PM   #5405
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
It's going to be different this time...they've changed. They won't make the same mistakes. It's going to be better than ever!

Lucas and Spielberg are retiring and passing on the hat?
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:17 PM   #5406
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Lucas and Spielberg are retiring and passing on the hat?
No! They accepted that they made mistakes. They want our love and they'll do what they have to to win us back!

They love us, they really do!
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:21 PM   #5407
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
No! They accepted that they made mistakes. They want our love and they'll do what they have to to win us back!

They love us, they really do!

Spielberg might... but Lucas is still sulking in the corner!
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:33 AM   #5408
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
No! They accepted that they made mistakes. They want our love and they'll do what they have to to win us back!

They love us, they really do!

Ummm, do you have any proof to back this???
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:21 AM   #5409
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Originally Posted by Violet
Ummm, do you have any proof to back this???

Rocket's been smoking too many Por Larrañaga.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:23 AM   #5410
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Lucas...like a BOSS!

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It’s up to George. We have already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie, we already have a concept in mind. I don’t know where George is with the story. There is no Indy 5 until George says there is.

So what might this eventual genre be?

Last edited by The Man : 12-05-2011 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:54 AM   #5411
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Lucas...like a BOSS!

So what might this eventual genre be?
That party started 4 days ago. You're late.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:41 AM   #5412
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Originally Posted by The Man
Lucas...like a BOSS!

So what might this eventual genre be?

Wow! So Lucas actually IS working on a story? By "working on a story", I thought they meant he's kind of sitting on his ass waiting to see if anything comes to him passively while he works on various other things, eg. Red Tails, Star Wars etc. I don't know he had been ACTIVELY working on it.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:33 PM   #5413
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I just found this bit of news from Spielberg on the prospect of Indiana Jones V.

And what about the 5th outing for Dr Jones? No massive reveals but he does say intriguingly that they have decided on the genre..

It’s up to George. We have already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie, we already have a concept in mind. I don’t know where George is with the story. There is no Indy 5 until George says there is.


Source: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=50616

BTW I'm happy to see this bit of news but I'm still not going to rest my hopes on it for fear Lucasfilm might come out and say something like We have no intention of making a fifth Jones movie people
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:51 PM   #5414
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Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
I just found this bit of news from Spielberg on the prospect of Indiana Jones V.
This has already been posted TWICE in this thread within the last 4 days. See 3 posts above yours & on the previous page.
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:44 PM   #5415
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@Stoo, Oh my bad. I'm sorry. I was so excited that I didn't even check the above post. I'm a bit puzzled over the 'we've already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie'. Does that mean it's not going to be the typical fare we've normally seen in Indiana Jones? Does it mean it's going to be 'mystery' or 'detective' in the vein that 'Crystal Skull' was Sci-Fi?
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:36 PM   #5416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
@Stoo, Oh my bad. I'm sorry. I was so excited that I didn't even check the above post. I'm a bit puzzled over the 'we've already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie'. Does that mean it's not going to be the typical fare we've normally seen in Indiana Jones? Does it mean it's going to be 'mystery' or 'detective' in the vein that 'Crystal Skull' was Sci-Fi?

Those are the conversations on the table, yes.

I suppose a fantasy thread is yours to begin, if you want it.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:39 PM   #5417
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Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
Does it mean it's going to be 'mystery' or 'detective' in the vein that 'Crystal Skull' was Sci-Fi?

As to the genre, there's a rumour going round that Ron Jeremy's going to have a big part in it. So make of that what you will.

Last edited by Attila the Professor : 12-05-2011 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:47 PM   #5418
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As to the genre, there's a rumour going round that Ron Jeremy's going to have a big part in it. So make of that what you will.

In Diana Jones
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:49 PM   #5419
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Originally Posted by Violet
...proof to back this???
Proof?

You don't know them like I do, after all we' ve been through...you'll never understand!

All this hatred, it's our fault.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:42 PM   #5420
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Originally Posted by The Man
So what might this eventual genre be?

"No, no, no," he told The Playlist during press rounds this weekend. "It's not a new genre at all. [All the 'Indiana Jones' films], they're all the same genre. It's all the same genre."

So what had he meant with his earlier comment? "It's just the MacGuffin that changes. The MacGuffin was the Ark of the Covenent in 'Raiders,' the Holy Grail in 'The Last Crusade,' and the skull in 'The Crystal Skull.' That's what always changes, and that's what we always look for."

Spielberg said that the MacGuffin for Indy 5 has been determined, but that the story is still being worked out. How's it going? "We're hopeful," he said.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...macguffin-will
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:02 PM   #5421
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So, of course, there's now a few possibilities on the table.

A) There's not any new news, and they're just keeping the Indy name - and by extension, their own names - in the public eye.

B) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it was inaccurate, and he's now correcting it.

C) Spielberg's original comment about "genre" was a mistake because it incited reactions and speculation that they didn't hope for, and he's now correcting it.

Possibility C is the most interesting, by far, but B will probably strike some as perhaps the most likely. Those with more experience tracking Spielberg's statements will be able to say how often he misspeaks in similar fashion. Otherwise, we might need to defer to things like his conversation with John Williams, and its seemingly willful inaccuracies.

Possibility A? I choose not to believe that they're that craven. None of them need help to remain in the public eye, and there's not any Indy merchandising that would benefit from Spielberg's comments.

Anyhow, I'm happy to run with the possibility that Spielberg let on more than he intended. Should keep things interesting around here...
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #5422
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Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
@Stoo, Oh my bad. I'm sorry. I was so excited that I didn't even check the above post.
Erm, MORE than the 'above post'. Try tuning in instead of just dropping in. The next time you get "so excited" and grab your WILLIE in haste, it would be a good idea to read the thread's recent discussion.

Anyway, why are you "so excited", Child? *If* Indy 5 does become a reality, you must wait 17 months after opening day to see it like you did with Indy 4!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeemedChild
I'm a bit puzzled over the 'we've already agreed on the genre of the fifth movie'. Does that mean it's not going to be the typical fare we've normally seen in Indiana Jones? Does it mean it's going to be 'mystery' or 'detective' in the vein that 'Crystal Skull' was Sci-Fi?
You still haven't read the recent posts? What do you think people have been discussing in this thread over the past 4 days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I suppose a fantasy thread is yours to begin, if you want it.
Attila, please be aware that you're encouraging a thread about, "Indiana Jones and the Skyward Sword". The thought of a Flourescent Indy in a day-glo world isn't very appealing.
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In Diana Jones
Ska, whether you realize it or not, this is an oblique reference to a Jules Verne adventure novel.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:46 PM   #5423
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Erm, MORE than the 'above post'. Try tuning in instead of just dropping in. The next time you get "so excited" and grab your WILLIE in haste, it would be a good idea to read the thread's recent discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Anyway, why are you "so excited", Child? *If* Indy 5 does become a reality, you must wait 17 months after opening day to see it like you did with Indy 4!

But to this: give it a rest, will ya?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Attila, please be aware that you're encouraging a thread about, "Indiana Jones and the Skyward Sword". The thought of a Flourescent Indy in a day-glo world isn't very appealing.

I can rename threads. And it wouldn't need to stay related to the original post. But we should get a few more genres on the table.

Besides, asking people for more than they usually give is a much better approach then assuming there's nothing more to begin with.

Anything to say about the rumor, Stoo? Or do you just feel like policing people's posting habits?
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:30 PM   #5424
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Looks like George and Steven have finally settled on a MacGuffin.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:30 PM   #5425
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@Stoo, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd stop making me fun of my old behavior. I'm not in a laughing mood as I'm quite serious about the future of the Indiana Jones franchise.

As much as I am happy to see Spielberg discussing Indiana Jones I'm also a bit worried. Is Spielberg toying with us Indiana Jones fans? I mean I only see him talking about Indiana Jones and not George Lucas, Harrison Ford and Shia LaBeouf. Also, for crying out loud Harrison Ford is continuing to age and I'm wondering if this is going to be a take place in the timeline after Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and if so will Mutt have a greater role? Or is this going to be a prequel with a younger Indiana Jones? I mean I'd believe Steven Spielberg a lot more if he gave more concrete information instead of making errors and correcting them again later. It's more like something fishy is going on here.

At first I'd allowed myself to believe that The Adventures of TinTin was a surefire indication that we'd get another Indiana Jones under production by the third quarter of 2012 but now I'm not so sure. I want to remain optimistic and I'm trying but things are getting a bit stretched out. Perhaps Lucas needs to relinquish all rights and ownership of the Indiana Jones franchise and let Spielberg handle it as I think Spielberg would definitely put Indy V into high gear production. I think George Lucas could care less about Indiana Jones as Star Wars is his sandbox and love.
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