KotCS & ToD similarities

agentsands77

New member
Quickening said:
Besides I just read you giving faint praise to Alien 3 which is always a good thing to see ;)
I'll give it more than faint praise. The extended cut is horribly underrated. It's not perfect, but it's definitely a worthy sequel to the masterpiece that is ALIEN. I go back and forth as to whether I prefer it to ALIENS.
 

Mothy

Guest
agentsands77 said:
And let's not forget the oodles of silliness. Behind KINGDOM, it's the most openly slapstick of any of the Indiana Jones adventures.


Except TEMPLE OF DOOM was never that good. It's a pretty enjoyable, but ultimately very sloppy, film. I don't think KINGDOM's at all that far behind DOOM.

Surely you can't be serious. You can't compare them. Temple is miles in front of Skull. Temple is old school film making and down to earth compared to the silly nature of Skull.
 

MolaRam2

New member
agentsands77 said:
And let's not forget the oodles of silliness. Behind KINGDOM, it's the most openly slapstick of any of the Indiana Jones adventures.


Except TEMPLE OF DOOM was never that good. It's a pretty enjoyable, but ultimately very sloppy, film. I don't think KINGDOM's at all that far behind DOOM.

Last Crusade has much more slapstick than Temple of Doom IMO.

I agree with the Quickening that ToD and KOTCS are totally different. ToD is a dark, edgy, badass, violent, scary, intense, heart pounding, nightmarish movie with balls. KOTCS is the exact opposite. KOTCS is very light, very safe, not badass at all, not violent, not scary, not intense, not heart pounding, and definately not nightmarish. Other than the character of Indiana Jones, they have about as much in common as The Princess Diaries and Grindhouse.

ToD is my favorite movie of all time. It represents what I love about movies. It is the perfect blend of action, adventure, and horror. ToD is an extremely unique film, there is non-other like it. The closet film to it is probably Raiders.
ToD set a standard for entertainment that no other movie has met IMO.
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
-Neither had Sallah or Marcus.(well, Marcus has numerous "cameos" in KOTCS, but Sallah is not mentioned at all).

The Golden Idol said:
Neither has Nazis.

That's also true. It's funny you should mention that, because I actually know someone who hated TOD all because they didn't have the Nazis in them(haven't talked with him since the release of Skull though). While I agree TOD is the weak link of the quadrilogy and that Nazis make for great villains on film, I don't see why some people believe an Indiana Jones film HAS to have Nazis or HAS to be set in the WWII era.

Agent Spalko said:
At least TOD was a well-made ambitious masterpiece with spectacular set pieces and adrenalin pumping action. KOTCS is a creaky nauseating bore from start to finish.

Just curious, why are you named after a character in a movie you supposably hate so much?
 

SterankoII

New member
MonarchoftheSea:Both had a song during the opening titles.

I thought the same thing! Both had popular songs of the era in the credits. I think there are similarities to each of the previous movies in this film, not just TOD. I think TOD has improved over the past few years and I think it'll be the same with KOTCS. I think KOTCS will actually have a faster chance of being reappraised. There are still things about Temple that KOTCS doesn't that will make it disliked by some people like the horror stufff, and the racist, sexist overtones. I think people will get over the sci-fi in KOTCS more than the dark aspects in TOD and KOTCS also has less annoying characters(though personally I like Willie and Short Round).

For me I like the action more in TOD but I like Indy as a character much more in KOTCS.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Agent Spalko said:
Nah, more like Scarface to Free Willy.

TOD is not that bad. I can't see how you can compare TOD to Free Willy (unless you mean when Indy is trying to rescue her from the lava drop)...
 

MolaRam2

New member
Darth Vile said:
TOD is not that bad. I can't see how you can compare TOD to Free Willy (unless you mean when Indy is trying to rescue her from the lava drop)...

He meant Scarface was ToD (a dark movie) and KOTCS was Free Willy (a light movie).
 

Quickening

New member
MolaRam2 said:
ToD is my favorite movie of all time. It represents what I love about movies. It is the perfect blend of action, adventure, and horror. ToD is an extremely unique film, there is non-other like it. The closet film to it is probably Raiders.
ToD set a standard for entertainment that no other movie has met IMO.

Amen. It's the defining action adventure film for me.
 

Darth Vile

New member
MolaRam2 said:
He meant Scarface was ToD (a dark movie) and KOTCS was Free Willy (a light movie).

I was being sarcastic as I don't agree... and you clearly didn't get the Free Willie gag :rolleyes:
 

segask

New member
maybe KOTCS should've opened with a dance number too

MonarchOfTheSea said:
Both had a song during the opening titles.
the song and dance at the beginning of ToD, 'Anything Goes', properly set the tone for the cartoony movie that it was. When they escape the plane using the raft, I wasn't thrown off because the tone had been set by the opening dance number and action sequence that followed.

Here in KOTCS, we have cartoony escapes from peril (the fridge, Tarzan, duck in the tree, etc.), but Spielberg didn't direct the rest of the film in a tone to match. If KOTCS had opened with something like a dance number and an opening action sequence choreograped to a band playing in the background like in ToD, then the refrigerator wouldn't have been such a 'wtf was that?' moment.
 

Benraianajones

New member
People always say TOD is dark, but I don't feel that way about it at all, I can see where the "dark" aspect arises (the cult) but generally I think TOD and KOTCS are very cartoony/comic book movies (and that isn't actually an insult or bad thing, it gives them "colour").

Raiders is the grittiest, and Last Crusade follows, with more humour. I see Kotcs/Tod as "sisters" and Raiders and Last Crusade as "brothers".

By the way, concerning the fridge, most people just found it amusing when it occured and didn't make any "wtf?" noises or reactions, on the 4 times I viewed it. One woman near me was deff a fan of the older movies (I could hear here talking about them etc) and she loved the new one.

Concerning Phantom Menace (forgetting Jar Jar) I felt that PM was the one that felt the most like the originals (saying a lot isn't it?) -(ONLY because they spent time on Tatooine...). Really wsn't a fan of the prequels.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
ToD and KOTCS

I've noticed a couple of similarities between TOD and KOTCS:

1) Both start with music that immediately announces the period in which the film is taking place--TOD, set in 1935, starts with Anything Goes, a song produced in 1934 and huge throughout 1934 and 1935 and a very 1930s dance performance with it; KOTCS, set in 1957, starts off with Hound Dog and Hot Car Racing, the song that many feel launched the Rock N' Roll era and was huge even into 1957 and the latter an activity popular amongst 1950s youth.

2) Both feature non-Nazi enemies--The Thuggies in TOD and the Soviets in KOTCS.

3) Both feature 'kid' sidekicks--Short Round in TOD, Mutt in KOTCS. Both sidekicks wear very American clothes fitting to the period--Shot Round in his yankees cap, Mutt in his leather early rock n' roller outfit.

4) Both films' artifacts are non-Christian and not very well known.

5) Both were commercial hits yet received mixed reviews.

6) Both don't start off with a separate Pre-Adventure Adventure sequence--the pre-Adventure sequences in TOD and KOTCS directly tie into and lead to the events of both films and don't exist as the final act of a previous separate adventure.

7) Both feature improbable or impossible actions and/or stunts--In TOD the parachute landing, the heart being ripped out of a man's chest and him staying alive, the mine cart jump, the straw bridge; In KOTCS, the nuclear scene as well as Mutt's vine swinging.

8) Both feature very limited to no gun play--There is only minor gun play in TOD as compared to Raiders, and no gunplay in KOTCS as compared to the limited gunplay in LC. Both feature limited whip-work, and in both cases the whip work is limited to swinging, not used offensively.

9) Both feature explorations in a dark, cobwebbed and eerie chamber of bodies--the first parts of the temple in TOD with the dead bodies and the graveyard in KOTCS.

10) Both films feature insects as the creatures the ''ick'' scene--A variety of bugs in TOD and the Ants in KOTCS, whereas in Raiders it was snakes and LC it was rats.

11) Both feature aspects of the supernatural not really tied with Judeo-Christian religious miracles--TOD features as it's main supernatural element Voodoo and Hindu ''spell-casting'', and KOTCS' main supernatural element is the Interdimensional Beings power and Psychic powers; Both are negative powers (Voodoo and Psychic power used to control and enslave one's enemy, whereas the Ark could be used to grant it's user's allies power beyond imagination and the Grail could heal and immortalize anyone who drank or was touched by it's water--More positive power).
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Yes, both films do stand out as different from Raiders and Last Crusade.

If it's a pattern that every even numbered film will deviate from the format of Raiders, then Indy V should please the fans who grew up with the orginal. :cool:
 
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