The wrong pressure point?

Robyn

Robyn

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In the movie, Spalko threatens to kill Mutt if Indy doesn't cooperate, but apparently if she's trying to scare Indy she's going to have to try harder, so "Clearly I have chosen the wrong pressure point. Perhaps I can discover a more sensitive one." So she brings out Marion and threatens the same thing, that seems to do the trick. But are they trying to say that Mutt's life doesn't mean much to Indy? Only Marion's? I always wondered about that scene...
 
A

AlivePoet

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ronicle said:
In the movie, Spalko threatens to kill Mutt if Indy doesn't cooperate, but apparently if she's trying to scare Indy she's going to have to try harder, so "Clearly I have chosen the wrong pressure point. Perhaps I can discover a more sensitive one." So she brings out Marion and threatens the same thing, that seems to do the trick. But are they trying to say that Mutt's life doesn't mean much to Indy? Only Marion's? I always wondered about that scene...
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For me, this is where the film began to seriously go downhill. The "pressure point" business felt terribly contrived, and a weak excuse to bring Marion into the story where she wasn't needed.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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AlivePoet said:
For me, this is where the film began to seriously go downhill. The "pressure point" business felt terribly contrived, and a weak excuse to bring Marion into the story where she wasn't needed.
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This is where the movie picked up for me! I'm thankful they got Marion in somehow, but I just don't get what the scene is suppose to indicate, other than Mutt's life doesn't mean much to Indy but Marion's does, seems strange for Mutt's life to not be a "pressure point" as well...
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

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That's where Mutt should have gotten one in the head. Then she would have proven she was a true Indy Villain. Even Donovan shot Henry.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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Rocket Surgeon said:
That's where Mutt should have gotten one in the head. Then she would have proven she was a true Indy Villain. Even Donovan shot Henry.
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I haven't given much thought about her villain wise, but now that you mention it, she was a pretty weak villain..
 
Kevin

Kevin

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At that point, Indy didn't know Mutt was his son. So yes, Mutt's life meant much less to Indy than Marion's. I guess Spalko must have known about Indy and Marion's relationship.
 
Ska

Ska

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Kevin said:
At that point, Indy didn't know Mutt was his son. So yes, Mutt's life meant much less to Indy than Marion's. I guess Spalko must have known about Indy and Marion's relationship.
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This.

Indy didn't know Mutt was his son at the time. I'm sure he still would have been affected if Spalko would have had Mutt killed. But Indy was calling their bluff.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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Ska said:
This.

Indy didn't know Mutt was his son at the time. I'm sure he still would have been affected if Spalko would have had Mutt killed. But Indy was calling their bluff.
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But yet he didn't call their bluff for Marion.. and what if she hadn't been bluffing?
 
Kevin

Kevin

Member
Who says she was bluffing? I think at that point, Mutt's death would not have seriously affected Indy, since he was just some kid Indy met a few days prior. Spalko realized this, and shifted her attention to someone Indy did care about. Indy knows the Russians are willing to kill to get what they want (remember the guards at Hanger 51, and Indy's own narrow escape), so he was not about to take the chance that Marion would be killed as well.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

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Kevin said:
Who says she was bluffing? I think at that point, Mutt's death would not have seriously affected Indy, since he was just some kid Indy met a few days prior. Spalko realized this, and shifted her attention to someone Indy did care about. Indy knows the Russians are willing to kill to get what they want (remember the guards at Hanger 51, and Indy's own narrow escape), so he was not about to take the chance that Marion would be killed as well.
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I'm not saying she was bluffing, but to play Devil's Advocate...she should have shot him if she wasn't. If nothing else it would have proven she was serious, she didn't even beat him. Instead she folded.
 
StoneTriple

StoneTriple

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Kevin said:
At that point, Indy didn't know Mutt was his son. So yes, Mutt's life meant much less to Indy than Marion's.
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That's certainly how it plays in the film. Makes perfect sense to me. Mutt's just a kid who only just met Indy. Marion is who Indy will try to protect. None of that was lost on Spalko.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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Rocket Surgeon said:
ooohhhh...good question!

I think that would radically change his mood, even if she was a tough broad!
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Yeah I think so too, Indy seems rather protective toward girls, even if he hadn't known it was his child, I think he may not have called Spalko's bluff if Mutt had been a girl
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
ronicle said:
Yeah I think so too, Indy seems rather protective toward girls, even if he hadn't known it was his child, I think he may not have called Spalko's bluff if Mutt had been a girl
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What kind of vices would she have..IF she were to have any...:D

Besides swearing;)
 
N

nitzsche

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Well, let's not ignore the fact that Mutt prepared himself to die so Indy wouldn't have to talk. Mutt set it up where Indy could call their bluff and refuse to help. And Spalko knew at that point she could take Mutt's head off but that wouldn't compel Indy to help.

It's not that Indy didn't care about Mutt - because he did - he had just finished asking him if he was alright - twice.
 
Robyn

Robyn

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Rocket Surgeon said:
What kind of vices would she have..IF she were to have any...:D

Besides swearing;)
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I imagine she might be a booze fan like her mother maybe ;)

nitzsche said:
Well, let's not ignore the fact that Mutt prepared himself to die so Indy wouldn't have to talk. Mutt set it up where Indy could call their bluff and refuse to help.
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Yeah Mutt did set it up(don't give these pigs a thing), but Indy didn't have to listen to Mutt
 
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Kevin

Kevin

Member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm not saying she was bluffing, but to play Devil's Advocate...she should have shot him if she wasn't. If nothing else it would have proven she was serious, she didn't even beat him. Instead she folded.
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Well, Spalko and company may have been ruthless, but they were not psychopaths. She knew that killing Mutt would not make Indy talk, so she re-directed her energies to get results (and it worked).

I don't think she needed to prove to Indy that she was serious; he has already seen their handiwork in Nevada, he knows the Russians mean business, which is why he helps Spalko once she threatens Marion.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Kevin said:
She knew that killing Mutt would not make Indy talk,
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I think it was pretty well established she couldn't read Indy's mind
Kevin said:
so she re-directed her energies to get results (and it worked).
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Shoot Mutt in the leg and find out...she was ineffectual.

Kevin said:
I don't think she needed to prove to Indy that she was serious; he has already seen their handiwork in Nevada, he knows the Russians mean business, which is why he helps Spalko once she threatens Marion.
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My point wasn't what she knew of or didn't...merely she was a paper tiger.

It worked because it was expedient to the script, (it was written to work) and not evocative of real danger.

Kevin said:
Well, Spalko and company may have been ruthless, but they were not psychopaths.
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Do you think they derived any satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lacked remorse for their actions?

I do.
 
Kevin

Kevin

Member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I think it was pretty well established she couldn't read Indy's mind
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She didn't have to, he made his indifference clear. "You heard him..."

Rocket Surgeon said:
Shoot Mutt in the leg and find out...she was ineffectual.
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Not ineffectual, efficient. Shooting Mutt would have been a waste of time, and a waste of a bullet. She knew she "had the wrong pressure point", so she moved on.


Rocket Surgeon said:
My point wasn't what she knew of or didn't...merely she was a paper tiger.

It worked because it was expedient to the script, (it was written to work) and not evocative of real danger.
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Well, if we look at this realistically, everything in the script is written to work a certain way, since it is, after all, a made-up story. But I think, given the Russians' lack of compunction about killing up to that point, that her threat to kill was plausible.


Rocket Surgeon said:
Do you think they derived any satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lacked remorse for their actions?

I do.
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Why? Everything we see in the film shows that they are driven in pursuit of their goals. They may derive satisfaction in accomplishing those goals, but I see nothing to support the contention that they got any pleasure out of the means they used to accomplish their ends.
 
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