TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > The Films > Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #1
para_owl
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St.Louis,Missouri
Posts: 15
Warehouse scene

I have mixed feelings about this. After seeing Raiders I immediately thought how cool it would have been to be in such a mysterious room. So, when it actually happened in this film it was cool, but not for long. I'd like to hear either way what you guys thought about this scene.

--Will.

para_owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 12:26 PM   #2
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,341
The Hangar 51 sequence felt somehow stodgy, like a awkward dress-rehearsal for the real deal. No dynamic whatsoever. The sight of the alien claw bathed in torchlight was one of the few memorable Spielbergian shots from the movie, however.
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 12:33 PM   #3
Attila the Professor
Moderator
 
Attila the Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 6,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
The Hangar 51 sequence felt somehow stodgy, like a awkward dress-rehearsal for the real deal. No dynamic whatsoever. The sight of the alien claw bathed in torchlight was one of the few memorable Spielbergian shots from the movie, however.

Really? I feel that was some of the best energy the film demonstrated. It seemed right, tonally.
Attila the Professor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #4
James
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,177
I never thought the warehouse was located at Area 51, so in that sense, it did change my perspective. It didn't really bother me, though.

I thought the opening prologue was a highlight.
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 01:11 PM   #5
Crusade>Raiders
IndyFan
 
Crusade>Raiders's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 630
I thought it was pretty dang cool. It took a little long to get the action going, but I love overall tone of it all and that little joke of Spalko getting excited and the sword thrusting out like that
Crusade>Raiders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 01:39 PM   #6
Niteshade007
IndyFan
 
Niteshade007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,574
I have mixed feelings about the sequence. While I thought that it was a decent opener for the film, I thought the alien was too closely linked to the actual macguffin. But, I'm also of two minds on that. While I think it was nice to mentally prepare the audience for the fact that aliens would be involved in the movie, I wonder if it might have been better to reveal that much later.

It was a good introduction of Spalko, but I felt that they were trying WAY too hard to establish a relationship between Mac and Indy. Too many references to past escapades. For example, Indy tells Belloq "it's too bad the Hovitos don't know you like I do." From that one line, we know that there is a past relationship. Indy doesn't have to say "Like that time you screwed me over in Zanzibar. You remember, don't you? We were younger then." While it helps to establish that they were in the war together, it seemed forced. It felt like they were trying too hard to create a back story for Mac and Indy by giving them awkward, stilted dialogue in a scene where no one would say those things. The one line that I like? "You don't know him, Boris. You don't know him!" Shows exactly what kind of friend Mac is: one who knows how smart Indy and how he knows how to get out of sticky situations.

It worked as an opener, but it wasn't my favorite. In fact, I think I may rate it the lowest of the films. It's a toss-up between that and Last Crusade's.
Niteshade007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 02:44 PM   #7
Agent Z
IndyFan
 
Agent Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
The Hangar 51 sequence felt somehow stodgy, like a awkward dress-rehearsal for the real deal. No dynamic whatsoever. The sight of the alien claw bathed in torchlight was one of the few memorable Spielbergian shots from the movie, however.

I couldn't disagree more. The entire opening is like a catalog of Spielberg sensibilities.

We had a little get-together after the press screening and this was one of the first things that we all agreed on. The opening felt like Spielberg through and through. So many great small touches, from Dovchenko's bootlaces, to Mac and Indy's intros, to the opening of the warehouse doors, to Spalko's rapier play, to Indy ascending the crates and on and on. Great pace and great framing of shots.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Niteshade007
Indy doesn't have to say "Like that time you screwed me over in Zanzibar. You remember, don't you? We were younger then."

I don't recall this line. There was a super brief reference to a past skirmish in Flensberg, but it was just enough to let you know they had a history of adventures together. I loved that dialogue, especially the world-weary snap of "Put your hands down...."...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Niteshade007
The one line that I like? "You don't know him, Boris. You don't know him!"

This line is great, the first 20 times it is repeated. Apparently, Boris also doesn't know brakes or steering wheels either.


Area 51 is, if I had to choose, my favorite section of the film. It's brimming with style. There are so many great shots. The kickass intro of Indy is my 2nd favorite of the series. The introduction of Spalko and the warehouse, along with the great action set piece that takes Indy up and down and back up and down various levels via crates, rafters, and an observatory skylight....it all results in one of the more memorable openings to a film.

My only gripe would be the illogical staging of the standoff between Indy and the Russians after the alien reveal. Makes little to no sense how that would have worked out that way...

Last edited by Agent Z : 07-06-2008 at 02:54 PM.
Agent Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #8
Sans Fedora
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by para_owl
I have mixed feelings about this. After seeing Raiders I immediately thought how cool it would have been to be in such a mysterious room. So, when it actually happened in this film it was cool, but not for long. I'd like to hear either way what you guys thought about this scene.

--Will.


I thought it worked, tonally and it was neat to finally find out what that warehouse was and where it was.
What I thought wasn't as good as a decision, though, from a pace/story perspective is this: Notice in the first three films how the opening act is always a story separate from the main story. It's an opener, a separate little serial that gives you a glimpse into the many adventures of Indy across the globe or into his past. In this flick, the opener, although it fit tonally, dealt strictly with the main plot.
Sans Fedora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 02:55 PM   #9
Michael24
IndyFan
 
Michael24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: California
Posts: 1,469
I thought it was a cool sequence. When Indy finally makes his break and the "Raiders March" kicks in, that was just a very cool moment.
Michael24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:03 PM   #10
Indy1986
IndyFan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 244
well i can't really point out what was wrong about this scene...
maybe i would have liked it if the opening had nothing to do with the main plot like in raiders..the opening has little to do withe the main plot (except that we get to know beloque)....i loved the opening with the cars in the deserts and the hound dog song perfectly set the mood, i liked the idea of starting of in the warehouse but as one of u already mentioned it took too long till the actual action started, the dialogues were akward....i didn't like the line "does anybody has a compass" because the soundtrack music in that moment made this line sound like a joke like it should be funny...which it wasn't and i didn't like how they run around withe the bullet powder thru the warehouse...looked somehow ridiculous....i think it could have been somehat better...
Indy1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:10 PM   #11
Niteshade007
IndyFan
 
Niteshade007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Z
I don't recall this line. There was a super brief reference to a past skirmish in Flensberg, but it was just enough to let you know they had a history of adventures together. I loved that dialogue, especially the world-weary snap of "Put your hands down...."...

That's because the line isn't in the film. I was just using it as an example of how Raiders didn't use dialogue like that to establish past relationships.
Niteshade007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:16 PM   #12
Agent Z
IndyFan
 
Agent Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niteshade007
That's because the line isn't in the film. I was just using it as an example of how Raiders didn't use dialogue like that to establish past relationships.

Well, nor did Kingdom, at least not to the extreme that your example implies...

I mean, you have to show a history between Indy and Mac. Otherwise, Mac is just some farmhand Indy picked up on his way to a dig in Mexico.

I thought that one line, and it was the barest of lines, did that beautifully.

Last edited by Agent Z : 07-06-2008 at 03:29 PM.
Agent Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:26 PM   #13
Forbidden Eye
IndyFan
 
Forbidden Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: With the Treasure of Mara...
Posts: 991
The entire beginning the includes the 50's opening, the warehouse and the infamous fridge scene is, hands down, the coolest part of the film.

The beginning truly got me in the Indy mood with Indy's cool intro, the use of gunpowder, the first crack of the whip and first time we hear the Raiders march, the appearance of the ark and the first fist fight.

The entire opening 20 minutes or so is the fun I've had at the movies in a looong time.
Forbidden Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #14
Agent Z
IndyFan
 
Agent Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy1986
but as one of u already mentioned it took too long till the actual action started..

From the opening credits until Indy's first punch, it's a whopping 12 minutes. *LOL*

Man, you guys are the ADD crowd.

In the opening 20 minutes alone, Indy:

is on the business end of Dovchenko's fist and Spalko's blade

on the run from Commie fire, navigating through the warehouse via swinging from light fixtures, running through Russians, playing chicken with trucks, and running along the rafters

crashes through a skylight and has fisticuffs/chainicuffs with Dovchenko

goes for a ride on a rocket sled

survives a nuclear explosion


Really, some of you need to lay off the sugar...
Agent Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:30 PM   #15
QBComics
IndyFan
 
QBComics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,200
This opening is fighting for 2nd between TOD's opening for me. I loved how great it felt seeing Indy again for the first time and then kicking some Commie @$$. I loved it.
QBComics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:37 PM   #16
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,341
It's Spielberg at his clunkiest, hamstrung by the most unmotivated scripting of the whole movie. Indy won't help the Commies, then he'll bend over backwards. The skull's magnetism is selective at best. The standoff is simply pitiful, the subsequent head-start for Indy is tardy editing, the collision of the jeeps is a good 20mph too slow to summon any excitement. The rocket-sled is literally tacked on to the sequence.

I simply can't believe we're handing out brownie points for above-average composition to a man who could - when bothered - orchestrate some of the most fluid set-pieces in contemporary cinema.

Stodgy. Awkward. Clumsy. But at least that's in keeping with the rest of the movie...
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:41 PM   #17
Niteshade007
IndyFan
 
Niteshade007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 1,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Z
Well, nor did Kingdom, at least not to the extreme that your example implies...

I mean, you have to show a history between Indy and Mac. Otherwise, Mac is just some farmhand Indy picked up on his way to a dig in Mexico.

I thought that one line, and it was the barest of lines, did that beautifully.

I still feel it was awkward and out of place. It didn't seem to fit with the rest of the scene. I thought the relationship was established better with Oxley. Even before he appears on screen we have some idea of his personality, and Marion explains why Indy and Ox don't speak anymore. It seemed to flow, it didn't seem out of place, and it didn't seem to be trying as hard to establish a relationship.

For some reason, Mac and Indy's banter didn't seem right to me.
Niteshade007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 03:54 PM   #18
Agent Z
IndyFan
 
Agent Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niteshade007
I still feel it was awkward and out of place. It didn't seem to fit with the rest of the scene. I thought the relationship was established better with Oxley. Even before he appears on screen we have some idea of his personality, and Marion explains why Indy and Ox don't speak anymore. It seemed to flow, it didn't seem out of place, and it didn't seem to be trying as hard to establish a relationship.

For some reason, Mac and Indy's banter didn't seem right to me.

Well, it it feels forced, it's probably because it has to be. We need a history established from the get-go cause, before you can blink, we also need to see Mac betray Indy. So, you absolutely have to establish that not only are they partners, but that Indy and Mac go way back. They have a history.

Have we mentioned how forced a character Mac is?

I can see how it would feel rushed and forced. It didn't bother me though, but I can be a forgiving bastard in films of these sorts, as long as they don't start swinging on vines and recruiting Commie-hating monkeys.
Agent Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 04:43 PM   #19
Goonie
IndyFan
 
Goonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 2,068
I guess I liked the scene overall. However the things that stood out that seemed a little wierd:
1. just before they go into the hangar, Harrison's voice seems a little off. I guess the had to do some voiceover work later in production.
2. The lighting. It looks like they were shot on blue/green screen which they probably were. I found this scene to have the worst lighting in the whole movie.
3. Is it just me or does the warehouse/hangar appear much much bigger at the end of Raiders than it actually is in Crystal Skull.
4. No pre-adventure! The hangar scene is tied in to the main story. The three previous movies had there little adventures (Raiders: Peru, Doom: Club Obi Wan, Last Crusade: Young Indy). I was really looking forward to a short adventure at the beginning not tied to the main story, but oh well, nuking the fridge will have to suffice I guess.
Goonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 04:51 PM   #20
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Z
Well, it it feels forced, it's probably because it has to be. We need a history established from the get-go cause, before you can blink, we also need to see Mac betray Indy. So, you absolutely have to establish that not only are they partners, but that Indy and Mac go way back. They have a history.

Remember how immediate and knowable Lao Che felt in Doom as soon as Indy sat down at his table? It doesn't need explanation or forced exposition because enmity is implicit in the performances and the tone. Friendship is handled with equal grace and brevity when it comes to Indy's friends in Raiders (Marcus, Sallah).

*quixotically reflects on the genius of Doom and briefly forgets the gargantuan clunkiness of Skull*
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 04:54 PM   #21
James
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,177
"The genius of Doom"?

Oh (the) man, where were you back in 1984, when I was trying to defend that film against "the genius of Raiders"?
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 05:05 PM   #22
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
"The genius of Doom"?

Oh (the) man, where were you back in 1984, when I was trying to defend that film against "the genius of Raiders"?

I was six - and I turned down a chance to see Doom in the cinema! Super-duper d'oh!
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 05:24 PM   #23
James
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
I was six - and I turned down a chance to see Doom in the cinema! Super-duper d'oh!

Did you opt to see another film instead? If so, we need to know what that film was.
James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 05:26 PM   #24
The Man
IndyFan
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Mola Ram School Of Cardiology
Posts: 5,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Did you opt to see another film instead? If so, we need to know what that film was.

No. From what I can remember myself and a group of friends opted to stay and play at home instead of heading to the cinema...
The Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 05:49 PM   #25
jazzycmk
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25
Loved the warehouse scene. Very stylish, sly nod to the fans.

I didn't think they would actually show the Ark. I thought it might be implied, but we would never know for sure (surely the government has other warehouses). The fact that we saw it but Indy didn't was very cool. Indy will never know how close he was (although in the novelization he does briefly glimpse the Ark).

As someone else mentioned, about the only thing I might have changed in the warehouse sequence was Indy's escape from the standoff. The tossed gun firing and shooting the Russians in the foot seemed a little too convenient. With the magnetized alien casket, you would have thought Indy could have just tossed the gun in the air, and it would have made for the casket like a laser, maybe knocking some of the Russians off their feet.

But that minor bit of nitpicking aside, opening sequence was my favorite of the movie.
jazzycmk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05 AM.