Blooper reels

Violet · Jan 11, 2011

digitalfreaknyc said:
I think the lack of interest has less to do with the film and more to do with the quality of it. It's an Nth generation VHS copy of something that was originally videotaped from a screen. Now, I'm not knocking Stoo's contribution because it's clearly never been leaked before. However, considering the fact that one needs subtitles to understand what is being said and the video is pretty bad, it's not going to really garner much enthusiasm.

True as that maybe, a better quality may leak out now that this version of it has been made public. It will be interesting if Lucasfilm or Paramount try to tear it down (making an excuse like copyright infringement, etc). I guess that all depends on how big word of mouth is and if they care or they make a big deal out of it and release a better version (I wish!).

Montana Smith · Jan 11, 2011

Moedred said:
Back on topic, please.

With respect, Moedred, I think that Carrie's choice of dialogue is going to continue to be a stumbling block with regard to this film, whereever it's commented on. Without the transcript people may not even pick up on it, and if it's edited out of the text, then they're still not. But in some places it's going to be made obvious. We can't deny that it was said, and it will always be part of the entire film.

The film is a little cultural artifact to those interested in the history of Indy movie making. For a long time it seemed to me to be part of folklore, having heard about this mythic occurrence, but never having seen it. So I would surprised if the following possible explanation for it's lacklustre reception holds true:

digitalfreaknyc said:
I think the lack of interest has less to do with the film and more to do with the quality of it. It's an Nth generation VHS copy of something that was originally videotaped from a screen. Now, I'm not knocking Stoo's contribution because it's clearly never been leaked before. However, considering the fact that one needs subtitles to understand what is being said and the video is pretty bad, it's not going to really garner much enthusiasm.

The film is a bad copy, and the audio is barely intelligible, there's no denying that. For me that adds to the mythic status, of just how rare this is, how we are only left with a copy of a copy (recurring). Does the original still exist, hidden away in some vault never intended for public consumption?

Moedred said:
Stoo, would the transcript fit in the video's info box? It would help new viewers follow along...

Or could subtitles be added to the film itself? This would, of course, make Carrie's 'word' embedded for posterity with the film. I don't agree with censorship, as I believe the full picture is the only one that can be commented on with any authority. Once words are removed due to sensitivy we risk moving into a world of half-truths. What's deemed offensive is a subjective choice, and, still on topic, what anybody does with this film and it's associated transcript is going to be a personal choice dictated by whoever hosts it, guided by the wishes of their expected audience.

digitalfreaknyc said:
Really, it's apples and oranges but if you really want to compare the two, one is hurtful and the other isn't.

Llike Fruit as in Polari and the writings of William S. Burroughs.

So many words are loaded with alternate meanings, but in the case of this film I would argue that everything should stay in, either as a transcript or as subtitles. The whole picture, to me, is always the best option, regardless of it's 'baggage'. The same word may be deemed either offensive or inoffensive depending on the circumstance, the speaker, and the situation.

This explanation may be useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

Indy's brother · Jan 11, 2011

Montana Smith said:
Once words are removed due to sensitivy we risk moving into a world of half-truths.

Now in the pantheon of culturally relevant media this isn't exactly Huckleberry Finn, but truer words were never spoken....about words. How can we learn to be more tolerant of each other if we refuse to acknowledge that which is intolerant? Forcing epithets like this to be eradicated out of duty instead of preventing bigotry out of a communal sense of goodwill just dooms them to simply get replaced with new ones, rather than us learning to coexist.

In any case, the biggest insult in this video is that for being a complete farce, the jokes weren't that funny.

Stoo · Jan 11, 2011

Attila the Professor said:
The surprise over the number of results from Sissy Dude's tumblr page got me wondering whether the 177 referrals from that page were somehow standing in for the entirety of tumblr referrals. Whether that's the case or not, it looks like the original tumblr posting of the video is this one, belonging to a user named Biotech. From there, Fu-- Yeah Carrie Fisher reblogged it, resulting in three more reblogs, Sissy Dude first, and then two others, Some Twine and Changin And How, the former of whom suggests that "the description of this video should read 'this is the best 1:25 minutes of footage ever captured ever'."

And, for what it's worth, here's the Streisand forums thread on the subject.

Great detective work, Professor! The YouTube stats say the 177 Sissy Dude views (now 178) are specifically from his page but I don't know enough about Tumblr to say whether it's from ALL the tumblr pages or not. What I do know is that the original embedding by Biotech and the other 2 (Some Twine & Changin and How) DO NOT SHOW on the video statistics feature. Nor does the referall at Chud.net which is very strange. Who knows how many other sites are spreading it while not being recorded in the stats.

I had already provided a link to The Barbra Streisand Forum page but having another link to it doesn't hurt (unlike the lash of a whip).

Note: Seeing that Sissy re-embedded the video from the Biotech tumblr page confirms that he didn't find it through The Raven and, therefore, most likely did not see Moedred's transcript and intentionally omit the "faggot" text. It's quite possible that he copied the transcript from elsewhere (as in: Barbra Archives) so I retract my earlier remark about gay blogger, Sissy Dude being a sad, revisionist coward. (That comment is now directed toward Barbra Archives!) :whip:

Litmus Configuration said:
That's just one part of a bigger gag reel. I got to see the RAIDERS/DOOM gag reel when Frank Marshall screened it at WorldCon in 1984. It was actually pretty funny. It opens with the first Paramount dissolve shot from RAIDERS, with Indy stepping into frame to gaze upon the Peruvian mountain...only to slip and stumble down the hill. There's also a bit where the "nocturnal activities" flirtation scene is performed by Harrison Ford and...Steven Spielberg. I don't remember much else but it was funny at the time.

Apparently, they later added LAST CRUSADE gags to it. And who knows? Maybe they added some CRYSTAL SKULL gags after that.

Good to have a more concrete idea as to what other scenes the gag reel contains. Thanks a lot for finding this TANTALIZING quote, Attila! :hat:

YouNeverKnow · Jan 11, 2011

Well I watched it and definitely enjoyed it. Thought it was interesting and funny, but never having known the background of the clip until right before watching it, I guess I just don't have the same strong reaction you seem to have wanted, Stoo. Maybe the same goes for others.

You can BET, however, that now that I've seen it I will continue to mention so to whoever may care to listen for the rest of my born days, so :hat:

ROB98374 · Jan 12, 2011

It's always great to get something new that is Indy related!

Stoo · Jan 12, 2011

Junior Jones said:
To be honest I was underwhelmed by it. I had read about it here and was interested in seeing it, but it didn't live up to expectations. The video is blurry, and without a transcript the sound is unintelligible. Definitely a case of expectation overshadowing realization.

Thanks for chiming in, Phil. I guess my ideas on this issue differ from yours. In the '90s, I was a rabid collector of rare & obscure '60s/'70s footage of my favourite band (The Who) and poor quality never put me off as I'd be content with just SEEING the stuff for the 1st time. Same goes for this piece of Indy legend.

Violet Indy said:
In terms of the books, as I said, they were "The Films of Harrison Ford" and may have also been "The Films of Steven Spielberg" pub in the late 90s- early 2000's. The images were not much better than what we see in the video here. A little clearer but not by much. I also read about the prank in a George Lucas bio- don't remember the author's name but the cover was black and silver with black and white photo of 1970s George next to a camera in the desert. Almost as detailed as Moedred's descriptions actually.

My dear Violet (Marion Fan Extraordinaire), you are missed. Write down your Raven password in a handy place. :whip:

Thank you very much for the info! :hat:

I'm curious to know whether the photos are from the same source as the videotape. Anyone have these books who can provide scans of the images and/or transcribe the text?

Moedred said:
Stoo, would the transcript fit in the video's info box? It would help new viewers follow along...

Hey, Moedred. Indeed, the transcript does fit because I just added it (with some additions & modifications. See my post #51). After scrutinizing the audio further, there are still more things being said by Harrison & Kershner that need to be deciphered (as well as Carrie's bit when she exits). Help!

digitalfreaknyc said:
I think the lack of interest has less to do with the film and more to do with the quality of it. It's an Nth generation VHS copy of something that was originally videotaped from a screen. Now, I'm not knocking Stoo's contribution because it's clearly never been leaked before. However, considering the fact that one needs subtitles to understand what is being said and the video is pretty bad, it's not going to really garner much enthusiasm.

While you're probably right about the poor quality being the reason behind a lack of enthusiasm/conversation, it DOESN'T explain why there are so few views from Ravenheads. Spanish Indy fans are clearly more curious than the people here. After 2 weeks, The Raven hits are still, pathetically, the LOWEST of the stat numbers.

Total # of hits = 3846 (in 16 days)
Indiana Jones Comunidad Fan Española: 344 hits (in 15 days)
The Raven: 74 hits (in 16 days)

Re: Subtitles...Man, I feel stupid because that is a great idea, digitalfreak! Why the hell didn't I think of that before?

Now this makes me want to re-upload the clip with subtitles (or use the YouTube annotation feature).

Attila the Professor · Jan 12, 2011

Stoo said:
While you're probably right about the poor quality being the reason behind a lack of enthusiasm/conversation, it DOESN'T explain why there are so few views from Ravenheads. Spanish Indy fans are clearly more curious than the people here. After 2 weeks, The Raven hits are still, pathetically, the LOWEST of the stat numbers.

Total # of hits = 3846 (in 16 days)
Indiana Jones Comunidad Fan Española: 344 hits (in 15 days)
The Raven: 74 hits (in 16 days)

Of course, there are also <I>1100</I> referrals from TheRaider.net itself, which, as with tumblr, may or may not incorporate referrals from The Raven. And even with the knowledge that not all click-throughs are incorporated into the stats given (what with there being a total of, at this moment, 3,846 total views, leaving roughly 1,400 views unaccounted for - though perhaps all of these are simply from Youtube itself), that's still the largest proportion of the statistics we can account for.

Moedred · Jan 12, 2011

My earlier post links to the SpeilbergFilms (R.I.P.) forum thread where the first images and transcript appeared, courtesy of the member who bought the original (?) VHS bootleg from eBay around 2004. The thread is not archived. You can try your luck, I've had none.

Stoo · Jan 12, 2011

Violet Indy said:
True as that maybe, a better quality may leak out now that this version of it has been made public. It will be interesting if Lucasfilm or Paramount try to tear it down (making an excuse like copyright infringement, etc). I guess that all depends on how big word of mouth is and if they care or they make a big deal out of it and release a better version (I wish!).

Precisely. Part of the intention of unleashing the clip is to see if enough attention gets drawn, it might coax whomever to put out a better quality version. (That's why I'm so hung up on the # of people watching & how/where.)

Montana Smith said:
With respect, Moedred, I think that Carrie's choice of dialogue is going to continue to be a stumbling block with regard to this film,...

...Or could subtitles be added to the film itself? This would, of course, make Carrie's 'word' embedded for posterity with the film.

Certainly you mean 'Bawbra' and not Carrie, right?

YouTube has a caption/subtitle feature which I'm going to try and use because there doesn't to seem be a way to switch the file for an updated version once it's been uploaded. If the YouTube caption feature does not cover the picture too much, it will definitely be used, thus, embedding 'the word' for posterity's sake.

Indy's brother said:
In any case, the biggest insult in this video is that for being a complete farce, the jokes weren't that funny.

Being relatively inside jokes, they may not be funny to Joe Public but are to the crew and film industry-types. The audience is laughing for pretty much the entire clip. That said, I think H.Ford getting whipped for "Force 10 From Navaraone" and "Hanover Street" is pretty danged funny! While I own both these films and enjoy them very much, Harrison's performances had dismal reviews from the critics when they were released.

One thing that irks me a bit is that other websites are describing the clip as a prank on Harrison Ford when it's not. Harrison is quite obviously in on the joke and the prank is intended for Spielberg.

@Attila the Professor: Quite right, you are. I just did the math and got the roughly the same numbers. 1099 hits from Raider.net and 1453 unaccounted for (from a present total of 3922).

@Moedred: Judging from Violet's description of the image quality, that could very well be the source for the photos. It would be nice to know if there is any additional information in the Lucas bio that she mentioned. Does anyone here have it?

Indy's brother · Jan 12, 2011

You know, with all the digital editing/filters/effects available, it would be cool to see if someone versed in those sorts of things could clean this up a little. Both for audio and visual.

Stoo · Jan 12, 2011

Indy's brother: There's really not much that can be done with the picture. As it is, I already fiddled with the contrast to make the blacks black and pumped up the saturation of the colours. The original quality I have is much more washed out and gray-looking. (I suppose I could post a before & after pic.)

An improvement could be made by manually adjusting the frames which have the bright flutter and make them consistent with the better parts. That's labour intenstive but maybe I'll end up doing it down the road...

As the old saying goes: You can't shine sh*t.

Montana Smith · Jan 12, 2011

Stoo said:
Certainly you mean 'Bawbra' and not Carrie, right?

Oh, of course!

Got it into my head Carrie had the last word. I'll blame the picture quality!

Stoo said:
YouTube has a caption/subtitle feature which I'm going to try and use because there doesn't to seem be a way to switch the file for an updated version once it's been uploaded. If the YouTube caption feature does not cover the picture too much, it will definitely be used, thus, embedding 'the word' for posterity's sake.

This will be good, and it'll also leave your mark on it, so you'll know where it goes.

Violet · Jan 13, 2011

Stoo said:
My dear Violet (Marion Fan Extraordinaire), you are missed. Write down your Raven password in a handy place.

Thank you very much for the info! I'm curious to know whether the photos are from the same source as the videotape. Anyone have these books who can provide scans of the images and/or transcribe the text?
Hey, Moedred. Indeed, the transcript does fit because I just added it (with some additions & modifications. See my post #51). After scrutinizing the audio further, there are still more things being said by Harrison & Kershner that need to be deciphered (as well as Carrie's bit when she exits). Help!
While you're probably right about the poor quality being the reason behind a lack of enthusiasm/conversation, it DOESN'T explain why there are so few views from Ravenheads. Spanish Indy fans are clearly more curious than the people here. After 2 weeks, The Raven hits are still, pathetically, the LOWEST of the stat numbers.

If that local library that had these books was still local I would have ran down there and did some scanning. However, I've done what I've can to show the covers of the books I'm refering to. I've managed to find the HF film book I was talking about - it's by Lee Pfeiffer. This edition is a later one of the one I'm talking about but I don't think the content would be too much different.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?img...ge=1&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=112&ty=133
Films of Steven Spielberg- I think I may have seen the pics, here too. Not 100% on it so don't quote me.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images...ow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
And finally drum roll.... the George Lucas bio I'm talking about:

http://www.scifimoviepage.com/images/lucas-cover.jpg
Cover's a little different to the edition I read, but that could be a regional thing, covers do change from edition to edition, but I'm fairly sure that it was the one written by John Baxter.

At least now everyone's got a better idea of which books I'm talking about. Happy hunting!

Stoo · Jan 13, 2011

Rocket Surgeon said:
It should be interesting to see how the news outlets pick it up,...

The website, World News, embedded the video, posted the transcript and INTENTIONALLY left out the "faggot" line. This is a fact because it's a copy & paste of my modified transcript which I put in the YouTube description box during the wee hours of yesterday!

Montana Smith said:
This will be good, and it'll also leave your mark on it, so you'll know where it goes.

True but that's what the network ID is for.

The clip has been embedded in loads of other sites (including Russia, India, Pakistan, Korea, etc.) that the YouTube stats haven't recorded (there must be a limit of 10 notifications).

Subtitles are proving to be quite the task because of the parts where everyone is talking at the same time, though I did manage to decipher some things that are incorrect in Moedred's transcript. (No offense intended, Moe.)

Violet Indy said:
At least now everyone's got a better idea of which books I'm talking about. Happy hunting!

Thanks for the research & info, Violet! :hat:

Yes, too bad that library isn't local anymore. Anyone have these books?

Moedred · Jan 15, 2011

Stoo, Canada could put you in dire straits...
http://www.broadcastermagazine.com/issues/story.aspx?aid=1000399383

Rocket Surgeon · Jan 16, 2011

The only reasonable, rational step left is to pick a new word and black ball it, (um er negro it, er african americanize it, uh...).

So what word can we erase from the lexicon?

Ham and Egger? No, not punchy enough.

Powder Puff? To soft.

HA! Since we're making room for the weak minded and the easily offended I have the perfect word to kill: Mook!

Friggin Mooks, yeah go ahead mook it up!

Wow! it even feels dirty!

Any other candidates to sculpt out of usage because we don wike them?

digitalfreaknyc · Jan 19, 2011

Rocket Surgeon said:
The only reasonable, rational step left is to pick a new word and black ball it, (um er negro it, er african americanize it, uh...).

So what word can we erase from the lexicon?

Ham and Egger? No, not punchy enough.

Powder Puff? To soft.

HA! Since we're making room for the weak minded and the easily offended I have the perfect word to kill: Mook!

Friggin Mooks, yeah go ahead mook it up!

Wow! it even feels dirty!

Any other candidates to sculpt out of usage because we don wike them?

Oh? I guess you're a big fan of "ni**er?" For those of us that are weak minded and easily offended, please tell me where you draw your line.

I'd love to hear from the insensitive and offensive.

Rocket Surgeon · Jan 19, 2011

digitalfreaknyc said:
Oh? I guess you're a big fan of "ni**er?" For those of us that are weak minded and easily offended, please tell me where you draw your line. I'd love to hear from the insensitive and offensive.

Draw the line. Personally, though it may prompt the dissolution of the conversation, I believe there is a time and place for everything. For the word nigger, for the word faggot, I'm not a big fan of "word burners."

Even before I knew you were gay I was surprised at your accommodation of Streisand, though looking back at it would I have been wrong or improper to have guessed you were gay because of it?

Trying to make sense of where you draw the line is apparent, though in reality it's a tensor whose scalar components are defined by "singers I like" or "icons to a collective", (among countless others I'm sure).

digitalfreaknyc said:
What an intelligent, well thought out response. I'm not thrilled that Babs said it but this was 1984 and she's a huge gay icon. I guess I can let it slide.

I'd say this doesn't bode well for establishing some moral foundation or superiority, (how I read your post) and find it highly subjective and emotional in contrast to intelligent and well thought out.

Makes navagating your sensibilities quite a minefield.

(Stoo please let me know if you want this carried on elsewhere)

Stoo · Jan 19, 2011

Moedred said:
Stoo, Canada could put you in dire straits...
http://www.broadcastermagazine.com/issues/story.aspx?aid=1000399383

Those wishy-washy hosers!

(Ha ha..."in dire straits"...Funny.)

digitalfreaknyc said:
Oh? I guess you're a big fan of "ni**er?" For those of us that are weak minded and easily offended, please tell me where you draw your line. I'd love to hear from the insensitive and offensive.

Not pretending to speak for Rocket but...I don't like the 'n' word but sure as hell am against it being omitted from historical text. "Huckleberry Finn" and "Tom Sawyer" are being rewritten to replace it with the word 'slave' and, to me, that is wrong! Same goes for Streisand's line being left out. To ignore the line in a transcript is to conveniently white-wash history (even if it's only trivial, 28-year-old history).

digitalfreaknyc said:
I'm not thrilled that Babs said it but this was 1984 and she's a huge gay icon. I guess I can let it slide.

This I don't understand. You wrote that you find the word offensive but are letting this instance slide because a 'huge gay icon said' it. Barbra is not gay so what difference does it make as to who used/uses it? Where do you draw the line, digitalfreak?

Update: 5041 views in exactly 3 weeks (with The Raven hits still trailing far behind in last place at a pitiful 84 of the total).

Edit - @Rocket: I'm not a mod so why are you asking me?

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