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Old 02-13-2004, 09:21 PM   #1
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I'd like to be the first to wish you all a happy Valentine's Day! A tradition passed down by Saint Valentine, a Roman martyr priest who lived hundreds of years ago. Valentines Day probably evolved out of an old pagen festival accociated with love occuring on Febuary 14. Valentine is now populary considered the patron of lovers and the helper of thoughs unhappy with love. The cards that people send today are called valentines, named after him.

Happy Valentine's Day!!!
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:22 PM   #2
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Sorry if I'm a few minutes off.
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:25 PM   #3
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I think my timezone is differant where I live.
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Old 02-14-2004, 05:30 AM   #4
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Thank you. Here in Finland it's more like the day of friends, not the day of lovers.
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Old 02-14-2004, 09:00 AM   #5
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Interesting.
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Old 02-14-2004, 09:03 AM   #6
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I won't even begin to tell you what's happing in San Fransico today.
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:30 PM   #7
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St. Valentine's Day: (from Encarta.com)
A holiday honoring lovers. It is celebrated February 14 by the custom of sending greeting cards or gifts to express affection. The cards, known as valentines, are often designed with hearts to symbolize love. The holiday probably derives from the ancient Roman feast of Lupercalis (February 15). The festival gradually became associated with the feast day (February 14) of two Roman martyrs, both named St. Valentine, who lived in the 3rd
century. St. Valentine has traditionally been regarded as the patron saint of lovers.


Love comes in many forms, between that of good friends, attraction of one to another, and within family bonds. (those are the most common forms of love)
So remember that while you may not have a "significant other", Valentine's Day is a day to love those who you do care for in some way or another.
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Old 02-14-2004, 12:58 PM   #8
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A Roman Feast? Now that interesting. The Columbia Encyclopedia says it was originally a pagen holiday, Though considering the Romans came long before your sorce is probably more accurate.
Are you sure it was Ancient Roman? Saint Valentine was Roman but I believe he was Roman Christian.
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Old 02-14-2004, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strider
A Roman Feast? Now that interesting. The Columbia Encyclopedia says it was originally a pagen holiday, Though considering the Romans came long before your sorce is probably more accurate.
Are you sure it was Ancient Roman? Saint Valentine was Roman but I believe he was Roman Christian.
Here is a link that might provide some more insight:
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...e/history.html
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Old 02-14-2004, 03:05 PM   #10
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Very interesting. Looks like the Pagen thing is out of the picture.
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Old 02-14-2004, 03:29 PM   #11
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Yeah, it was partially based on the old Roman festival of the Lupercalia - for fertility.
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Old 02-15-2004, 03:30 PM   #12
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There are supposedly some relics of St Valentine down the road from me in Glasgow. See http://www.cityoflove.co.uk/history.html

Quote:
It is believed that there were actually two Valentines. Little is known of one, the martyred Bishop of Interamna (modern Terni in central Italy). More is known about the second Valentine, a third century Christian priest, although there are a number of different stories surrounding him:

Valentine secretly married Christian couples (under the rule of Emperor Claudius Christian marriages were banned and helping Christians considered a crime)

He was imprisoned for refusing to worship pagan gods, and is said to have cured the jailer's daughter through prayer - subsequently sending her a note signed "Your Valentine" on the day of his execution

Valentine, though not a Christian, helped Christians during a time of persecution. Captured and put in jail, he converted to Christianity and was executed. Whilst in prison he is said to have sent messages to friends saying "Remember your Valentine" and "I Love You"

However, the different accounts do seem to agree on the date (14th February, 269AD) and the fairly thorough method adopted for his execution - clubbing, stoning and beheading outside the Flaminian Gate in Rome.

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Old 02-16-2004, 12:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strider
Very interesting. Looks like the Pagen thing is out of the picture.

The Romans practiced all sorts of pagan festivals at one time or another.
Encyclopedia Britannica: "In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchange of gifts. December 25th was also regarded as the birth of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, “The Sun of Righteousness”
The Romans called christmas time 'saturnalia'. Mithra's birthday is where we get Dec 25th from.

So, Aaron H's quote from encarta is very likely correct.
Valentine is most probably pagan
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Old 02-16-2004, 01:10 PM   #14
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St. Valentine pagan? Yes. Keep in mind that any natural religion that isn't monoteistic and honored to one higher being in heaven, is actually taken as "paganism" by Christians.

And about that Saturnalia thing... nice insight. As something of a latinist and all, I know quite a bunch about these things. The truth is (no offence you all believers out there) that most Christian holidays were "replaced" from their actual dates of happening to dates that had some kind of "pagan ritual" on them. Most of these dates are nothing but clever political ploys from the times of the Antique to make people follow the "new" religion. To give you a further insight, in many places Europe, Easter is the holiday when witches fly on the sky and kids get extra candy, not Halloween (which is though making a breakthrough here too - the culture that left this continent went elsewhere to go through a transformation and is now coming back). And this all dates back to old pagan beliefs.

This may shake the beliefs of some out there, but keep in mind: it's okay to think that things are they way I think they are. But I always must think slightly reserved.
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Old 02-16-2004, 01:49 PM   #15
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Ah, Finn, you know someting about it too.
Interesting about Easter in locations in Europe.

Yes, Easter is a pagan holiday. In fact, Easter is the name of a pagan fertility goddess.
Oxford English Dictionary: “The name of a goddess whose festival was celebrated at the vernal equinox…Originally known as the dawn goddess...”
One of the most important spring festivals among pre-Christian Germanic people was dedicated to the goddess Ostara, or Eostra whose name suggests ‘east’ and from that, ‘dawn’ and ‘morning light.’
The goddess was known as:
Ashtaroth by the Zidonians
Astarte by the Phoenicians
Ishtar by the Babylonians
Eostra by the Celtics, And
Easter, by everyone today.
In reality, Easter (The vernal equinox), is not the time of the resurrection, but the time a pagan goddess was worshipped. And notice it always falls on Sunday.
Anyway, you are correct Finn, most so-called 'Christian' holidays are not Christian at all.
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Old 02-16-2004, 10:51 PM   #16
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Mod move

I'm moving this over to the Arch. Table...so the discussion about Christian/Pagan holidays can continue.
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Old 02-16-2004, 11:06 PM   #17
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Thats fine with me. The 14th is past anyway.
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Old 02-17-2004, 06:42 PM   #18
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Yes,Imbolic/Brigid's Day..the maiden..conception" Imbolc means "in the belly of the mother" I guess it's more like groundhogs day(Spring..new life..coming out of hibernation/gestation)...beacuse it used to be celebrated on the 14th..but we all know how dates can get messed up (Acutally, taking into account the celestial findings of astronimers(sp?), isn't Christmas on the wrong day according to Christian religion?) Its all about fertility! Also called Candlemas..fire..the fire of love + life! Be it Pagan christian it's about new crops....new life on earth.

Basically its Spring...but paganism being one of the oldest religions it is no wonder that it festivals and dieties have been twisted around by those in power to suit them best...names...dates...whatever..We all know what this time of year means to us,the earth,and those we care about...Just another marker for the year and the changes within it.
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Old 02-17-2004, 06:58 PM   #19
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I will post more about Christmas probably in an hour and a half.
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Old 02-17-2004, 07:06 PM   #20
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An hr+1/2!!?I dunno if I can make it....just..one...more.....rum + coke.......
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Old 02-17-2004, 08:39 PM   #21
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I'm back!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlin
(Acutally, taking into account the celestial findings of astronimers(sp?), isn't Christmas on the wrong day according to Christian religion?) Its all about fertility! Also called Candlemas..fire..the fire of love + life! Be it Pagan christian it's about new crops....new life on earth.

Basically its Spring...but paganism being one of the oldest religions it is no wonder that it festivals and dieties have been twisted around by those in power to suit them best...names...dates...whatever..We all know what this time of year means to us,the earth,and those we care about...Just another marker for the year and the changes within it.

December 25, birthday of Sol-Invictus Mithra.
Mithra was a pagan sun-god worshipped on Dec 25th.

Colliers Encyclopedia “The choice of December 25 was probably influenced by the fact that on this day the Romans celebrated the Mithraic feast of the Sun god “Natalis Solis Invicti””

Encyclopedia Britannica “In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchange of gifts. December 25th was also regarded as the birth of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, “The Sun of Righteousness””

Christmas was:
Illegal in England
Outlawed in New England from 1649-1658
Condemned by the Puritans, Methodists, Quakers, Amish, Presbyterians, and Babtists.
Finally, it was made a legal holiday in Massachusetts in 1856. Everyone realized that Christmas had nothing to do with Jesus’ birthday, and had everything to do with the sun-god’s (Mithra) birthday, and only in 1856 did they finally give in, and mix sun-worship with Christian events.
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Old 02-17-2004, 08:42 PM   #22
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Isn't it kinda punny?! The Sun God's birth and the Son of God's birth!?! Ha! Ha!
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Old 02-17-2004, 08:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlin
Isn't it kinda punny?! The Sun God's birth and the Son of God's birth!?! Ha! Ha!

Not to incite conflagration, but don't get Christianity and the Church mixed up. Two completely different critters, those.
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Old 02-18-2004, 09:38 AM   #24
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The reason why Christmas is celebrated during Saturnalia is simply because early Christians (and even modern-day) had no clue as to when exactly Jesus was born. So they took a pagan* holiday and made it their own. This was because it was hard to make new converts break from their old traditions, so by creating a holiday on the same day (or time period) of the old holiday life was made a lot simpler.
As for Easter, it is NOT associated with pagan holidays, rather it is associated with Passover...a Jewish holiday that is older than any pagan holiday.




*Pagan:
1. follower of a less popular religion: somebody who does not follow one of the world’s main religions, especially somebody who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, and whose religion is regarded as questionable (sometimes considered offensive)
2. polytheist or pantheist: a follower of an ancient polytheistic or pantheistic religion
3. heathen: somebody who has no religion (disapproving)
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:31 AM   #25
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This is a great thread! Interesting to hear everyone's input from different backgrounds and studies.
I think you can associate just about anything(of course not everything!) in religions. As Aaron and I have said (in our own ways), that is how traditions/holidays came to be..by being moved, changed, adopted, and mixed with others in an effort to control the masses. Let's hear more on this!
Can we do this every holiday? (Is it allowed? being not quite Indy-related?)
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