Pirates of the Caribbean (5): Dead Men Tell No Tales

kongisking

Active member
Pale Horse said:
Darabont introduced a girl. It's always about a girl. Which would have been nice...seeing that there's a girl in the YIJC...Nathanson changed it. And added the Ants.

I'll always be grateful to Nathanson, then, for the ants. If it weren't for those little bastards, we wouldn't have gotten Indy vs. Dovchenko, which was one of the best scenes in the movie.

As for Pirates 5, I hope that the supporting characters are better than some of the ones in On Stranger Tides (the missionary was good for one thing only: allowing that great quip by Jack to exist).
It actually sort of angered me that all those guys we got to love in the trilogy (Pintel, Ragetti, Cotton and Marty) were supposedly killed in between movies by Blackbeard.
I'd also like to see the East India Trading Company as villains again, as in my mind they kind of act as the Nazis to Jack's Indy.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Pale Horse said:
Darabont introduced a girl. It's always about a girl.
There's no offspring in the Darabont draft we have. Either or both Boam or Nathanson may have introduced a girl before or after him. Find those scripts, or ask the players more specific questions, and you'll be closer to the truth.

Who likes puzzles? These pieces don't fit.
Pale Horse said:
Nathanson changed it. And added the Ants.
Jeb Stuart's script has ants.

Back to Pirates 5...
First of all, there’s going to be a new female lead, a sparring partner for Jack Sparrow. She’s nothing like him, mind you – despite being suspected of witchcraft, she’s actually a woman of science. Expect some sexual chemistry, but also expect it to be a touch one sided…
There’s more to her character, but the best stuff is very spoilery.
As for witches, they’re central to whole conceit. There are some other, actual witches involved. If Tia Dalma, from the second and third films, makes another appearance, it’s a minor one but it’ll be very easy to leave her out. These new witches have somewhat less of a hoodoo flavouring.
Keeping up the supernatural flavour, there’s also going to be a ghost in a leading role. It’s this character, a former member of the British military now sided with Barbossa on a revenge mission, that gives the film its title.
And just in case you miss the other half of the equation, the dripping wet Orlando Bloom or Keira Knightley roles, they’ll this time go to a couple of pretty young Brits from farming families. They’re pure subplot fodder, however, and if anything gets the chop it will be these two.
I can tell you that the film starts with a rather awkward wedding and climaxes with a riff on the myth of the Bermuda Triangle.
 

kongisking

Active member
Moedred said:

I think there's some neat ideas here, but why, oh why are they shoehorning in yet another pointless romance subplot? Didn't they learn from On Stranger Tides, that you can't make that work unless if you make them the main focus and Jack a roguish sidekick, like the original trilogy did.

It's actually a shame Jack became as popular as he did, as it resulted in everyone bashing the true protagonists of the trilogy, Will and Elizabeth, because they weren't as fascinatingly quirky. Now everyone thinks that what they want is a Jack-centric film, but the character really works better as a scheming trickster supporting character. Too much of him is, well, too much. I fear the series is doomed to be wholesale turned on by the public, because the general movie-goer's demand to see Jack dominate stories is going too far, and soon folks will well and truly have had too much of a good thing.

That, and Depp is pretty much nothing but quirky and eccentric in his mainstream roles now. The "holy crap, what a brilliantly unique and original character!" value has completely disappeared.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
kongisking said:
I'd also like to see the East India Trading Company as villains again, as in my mind they kind of act as the Nazis to Jack's Indy.
I've only seen the 1st movie and about 10 mins. of another (don't know which) but is the Honourable East India Company really in one of the films? (In the 1st one, it's the British Navy.)

If so, why has the name been changed and what the hell is the company doing in the WEST Indies!:confused: They were never there.
 

kongisking

Active member
Stoo said:
I've only seen the 1st movie and about 10 mins. of another (don't know which) but is the Honourable East India Company really in one of the films? (In the 1st one, it's the British Navy.)

If so, why has the name been changed and what the hell is the company doing in the WEST Indies!:confused: They were never there.

You're correct about the Navy. In the first film, they were the primary thorn in Will and Jack's side. Didn't help that Commodore Norrington was playing Javert in that film.

But in the first two sequels, the East India Trading Company (yes, they are referred to on screen as such) are portrayed as a fanatical, oppressive company that is rapidly taking over settlements in the Caribbean and indiscriminately hunting down and executing pirates everywhere, as well as people allied with them or, well, anyone who is an inconvenience in any way.

I take it this is not historically accurate? :rolleyes:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
kongisking said:
I take it this is not historically accurate? :rolleyes:

Next we'll be told that Davy Jones played the maracas in an old boy band, never had a squid head (or a locker), and that sexy mermaids never existed? :confused:

All my dreams shattered in one fell swoop. :(

At least Jack Sparrow's real. He supped from the fountain of youth and will be standing in the Minneapolis mayoral election in November.
 

kongisking

Active member
Montana Smith said:
At least Jack Sparrow's real. He supped from the fountain of youth and will be standing in the Minneapolis mayoral election in November.

Whoa. No matter what my profile says, I actually live in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. I have never heard of this guy.

Now I know who I'm votin' for! Arrrgggghhhh! :rolleyes:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Le Saboteur said:
And now they're supposed to have a director to helm the picture. Deadline is reporting that the Norwegian duo behind the much lauded Kon Tiki have received their blessings from Depp & Bruckheimer.
That bodes well for fans of this series. I just saw "Kon-Tiki" a few days ago and thought it was very well done.
kongisking said:
You're correct about the Navy. In the first film, they were the primary thorn in Will and Jack's side. Didn't help that Commodore Norrington was playing Javert in that film.

But in the first two sequels, the East India Trading Company (yes, they are referred to on screen as such) are portrayed as a fanatical, oppressive company that is rapidly taking over settlements in the Caribbean and indiscriminately hunting down and executing pirates everywhere, as well as people allied with them or, well, anyone who is an inconvenience in any way.

I take it this is not historically accurate? :rolleyes:
Ya think?:rolleyes: That pretty much describes the Dutch West India Company.

You must admit, Kong, that the name is kinda stupid. If Disney felt the need to fiddle around with the HEIC then they should have, at least, dropped the "East" from it (unless, of course, these fictional tales put the Caribbean somewhere in the Indian Ocean).;)

Better yet, they could have just used the Dutch West India Company and set the stories during one of the many Anglo-Dutch wars. Picture the pirates & company duking it out when a British Navy ship shows up, cannons blazing both parties with grapeshot. Double the enemy factions, double the fun!:D

Maybe they can do that for the 5th movie.
Montana Smiff said:
Next we'll be told that Davy Jones played the maracas in an old boy band,
"Hey, hey! We're The Monkees!"(y) R.I.P. Davy Jones, who passed away last year.

deb_7_davy_20120301222454921174-420x0.jpg


There's also this Davey Jones (complete with earring & eyepatch). Ziggy plays guitar but can he wield a cutlass?

David-Bowie-1973-006.jpg
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Stoo said:
There's also this Davey Jones (complete with earring & eyepatch). Ziggy plays guitar but can he wield a cutlass?

No, but he can officiate a break dance fight...will that work, in a Disney film? (keeping it PG and all)

post-17870-I-believe-I-might-be-of-servic-6Xpl.gif
 

curmudgeon

Well-known member
Depp seems to think that Pirates 5 could be the last going by recent comments.

As for ?Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales,? Johnny confirmed that Joachim Ronning and Espen Sandberg, who were behind Norway?s Oscar- and Golden Globe-nominated ?Kon-Tiki,? are still attached to direct.

?Everyone involved wants the script to be right and perfect,? Johnny explained. ?So we have gone on to do other things (in the meantime). We are still going to do the film together. I enjoy them immensely. They are super talented. They have a great sense of humor. I think they have a really fun approach to what we are going to do with the next ?Pirates.? Very happily and proudly, I have welcomed taking part in the story and working directly with the screenwriter (Jeff Nathanson)?he and I. It?s working out really well that way.?

He added, ?So I have high hopes for that ?Pirates 5? because if that?s really the last one, which it probably is, I feel that we owe it to the audience who went and saw the films so many times. We?ll do it right and end it on a high note.?
 

TheFedora

Active member
Heard that as well. I think they realize that Jack Sparrow needs to have a foil with him in these movies, otherwise it just feels...I don't know i'll put it like this. I have had the fourth movie for a few years, never watched it once. Just didn't feel like it I guess.
 

kongisking

Active member
TheFedora said:
Heard that as well. I think they realize that Jack Sparrow needs to have a foil with him in these movies, otherwise it just feels...I don't know i'll put it like this. I have had the fourth movie for a few years, never watched it once. Just didn't feel like it I guess.

As much as I love Jack, it was On Stranger Tides that made me realize that he is most effective as a kind of amoral, scheming anti-heroic sidekick to more straight-arrow heroes. Making him the main character resulted in a movie where Jack's antics felt forced and indulgent.

Also, on repeat viewings of the trilogy, I have noticed how the writers completely flipped the essence of Jack's characterization in the sequels. In the first film, he's a brilliant, intelligent and competent pirate who puts on a wacky, eccentric front to baffle his foes until he gets an opening, but starting with Dead Man's Chest, Jack really is a cartoony goofball, with delusions of grandeur. And it does unfortunately make him look like more of a bastard in the sequels at times, since his worst moments feel all the more petty and based on ego, not as part of a long-term plan to win the day.

But hey...characterization marches on. :D
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
kongisking said:
As much as I love Jack, it was On Stranger Tides that made me realize that he is most effective as a kind of amoral, scheming anti-heroic sidekick to more straight-arrow heroes. Making him the main character resulted in a movie where Jack's antics felt forced and indulgent.

Fair point. Though I don't really see why Bloom has to be that straight-arrow foil; can't they create any new interesting characters?

Makes as much sense as saying a certain franchise with an archaeologist "has to have Nazis, be set in Egyptian deserts, have a biblical artifact and contain John Rhys-Davis as the sidekick!"
 

AndyLGR

Active member
Its not a series of films that I feel invested in like Indy, neither are they films that I could dig out and watch on a reasonably regular basis. But I enjoy watching them when they are on TV. I thought the last one was decent, its the only one I went to the cinema to watch and it didn't bother me that they ditched the sidekicks from the first 3. In fact it was refreshing in a way that they didn't use them. I think my only gripe with OST was the Last Crusade inspired ending.
 

kongisking

Active member
Forbidden Eye said:
Fair point. Though I don't really see why Bloom has to be that straight-arrow foil; can't they create any new interesting characters?

Makes as much sense as saying a certain franchise with an archaeologist "has to have Nazis, be set in Egyptian deserts, have a biblical artifact and contain John Rhys-Davis as the sidekick!"

That wasn't my point. I was advocating for Sparrow being the sketchy supporting character to a more straight hero in general. I'd ideally like them to not drag Will back in the picture (the whole idea of him becoming captain of the Dutchman was that if he unfailingly devoted himself to his job for ten years, he'd be allowed to go free..and also avoid being a squid-man :p ), but hey, if they come up with a clever way to make it work, it could be neat.

And Pale Horse, those kinds of cryptic statements only confuse me. I know I'm not as intelligent as you, but can I ask what you're getting at?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
kongisking said:
And Pale Horse, those kinds of cryptic statements only confuse me. I know I'm not as intelligent as you, but can I ask what you're getting at?

You're plenty intelligent. That's why we keep you around. But I can forsee already that your statement will be used down the line agaisnt you. In some relevant, or completely irrelevant way. :)

Because, why not? We're the Raven.
 
Top