Indiana Jones films: racist?

Are the Indiana Jones Films Racist?

  • No

    Votes: 61 79.2%
  • Yes - all of them

    Votes: 4 5.2%
  • Raiders of the Lost Ark

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Temple of Doom

    Votes: 9 11.7%
  • Last Crusade

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    77

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I have to ask, where did you find out that it was done to appeal to American audiences? And why would lessening the Jewishness be more appealing? That's your opinion, right?

If it was a fact, and not mere opinion, the reasoning would be taking the Jewish issue out of a 'popcorn' movie. The scene with the sultan is played for laughs, but the appropriation of Jewish property was the tip of the iceberg when it came to oppression. It seems more likely that the treasure was donated by "the finest families in Germany" - the Junkers, the industrialists, and the like.

I can't remember whether the Jewish reference in Raiders was in the film, or was just in the novel: Dietrich's remark about Belloq's Jewish robes and the ceremony he planned for opening the Ark.
 
Montana Smith said:
Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah

The Indiana Jones film I have in mind was possibly one of the most blatantly racist films ever produced by Hollywood, which is saying a whole lot, especially when the object of racism, as in this film, happens to be Arab (make that Arabs -- all of them).
We've been cued. Our Racist-conditioned neurons rush through our brains: we anticipate one of those stereotypical-Hollywood affronts to our collective and progressively attuned moral meter, which bored us when we were kids but tend to leave us breathless as we grow older...no doubt the lack of oxygen can't dull or cloud such blatent racism to come.
Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah
Most of the action is supposed to be taking place in 1930s Cairo, where, amazingly, the army of the Third Reich holds sway. Cartoon, you may say, but how many, I wonder, among the film's American audience, not least George W himself, actually came out of the theatres fully convinced that Egypt was under Nazi German rule in the 1930s (our imperial masters' arrogance, after all, is equalled only by their enormous ignorance of the world they insist on "leading" -- by the nose)?
Now we've been primed, not by facts, but by derision based on faulty perceptions like Third Reich controled Cairo...cartoon indeed. One wonders how many,among the Arab audience, not least Mahmoud A, actually finish the "article" fully convinced of conspiracies and rationalizing hatred.

Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah
I remember little of the film;
Truth, but hardly enough to discount the contortions employed to support racism, "possibly one of the most blatantly racist films ever produced by Hollywood".

Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah

One scene, however, has stayed firmly in my mind. Indiana Jones is being attacked by various turbaned and robed "Arabs" in a Cairo souq, which is borrowed from a mediaeval Baghdad souq, as portrayed in a '50s Hollywood version of a tale from A Thousand and One Nights.
What he does remember, however little, is impressive if remarkably self serving and perfectly reasonable in an indictment of racism.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah

Indiana Jones (a younger and less haggard Harrison Ford) kicks and punches his way through half a dozen of these evil-looking baddies and, finally, the worst of them all appears on the scene. The earlier fighting has cleared the middle of the souq, and it is in this space that the American hero and his villainous Middle Eastern-featured antagonist face off. Dressed all in black, including the inevitable turban, the hook-nosed "Arab" wields a mean curved sword. He prances and preens, his sword twisting and swerving elegantly.

Ladies and Gentlemen, presenting "hooked-nosed Arab"... Terry Richards:

180.jpg


Hook-nosed. OK, so this guy is liberally embellishing events and people in a film he remembers little of to support his divisive racist claims.

Originally Posted by Hani Shukrallah
But here is where the filmmakers have their little joke on us.

Someone is having a little joke at our expense and I believe its "someone in the "Arab Intellectual" subculture."


Tana said:
If it was a fact, and not mere opinion, the reasoning would be taking the Jewish issue out of a 'popcorn' movie.
The Diary of Anne Frank was a popcornmovie?!:p


Tana said:
The scene with the sultan is played for laughs...
What was the joke?

Tana said:
It seems more likely that the treasure was donated by "the finest families in Germany" - the Junkers, the industrialists, and the like.
There's not a thing to indicate otherwise.

Tana said:
I can't remember whether the Jewish reference in Raiders was in the film, or was just in the novel: Dietrich's remark about Belloq's Jewish robes and the ceremony he planned for opening the Ark.
You really need to watch them again boy-o! It was.
 
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Henry W Jones

New member
Montana Smith said:
If it was a fact, and not mere opinion, the reasoning would be taking the Jewish issue out of a 'popcorn' movie. The scene with the sultan is played for laughs, but the appropriation of Jewish property was the tip of the iceberg when it came to oppression. It seems more likely that the treasure was donated by "the finest families in Germany" - the Junkers, the industrialists, and the like.

I can't remember whether the Jewish reference in Raiders was in the film, or was just in the novel: Dietrich's remark about Belloq's Jewish robes and the ceremony he planned for opening the Ark.

In the film, Dietrich says to Belloq, "I am uncomfortable with the thought of this.....Jewish ritual. Are you sure it is necessary?"
 
Montana Smith said:
The Last Crusade was the movie in question?
Wasn't RKO suggesting they took "the Jewish issue" out of Anne Frank?
Montana Smith said:
TVTropes.org said:
When the Nazis offer the Sultan a chest of jewels and gold, he is not impressed - he is impressed by the Rolls Royce, however. Donovan quickly adjusts his plan, smiles, and tells the Sultan, "The keys are in the ignition."

What's the joke?

RKORadio said:
Yes you don't cast Alexei Sayle unless you're planning for the role to be comedic.

Says who...what was so funny about the scene?:confused:

Guess it was funny like Bill Murray in "Lost in Translation"...;)
 

Henry W Jones

New member
RKORadio said:
Last Crusade hasn't been on my local TV stations in a long time and I havent got the DVD so im relying on years-old memories and what other people have said.

its common for some works to be problematic - the adapters of The Diary of Anne Frank de-Jew-ified Anne and practically turned into a Christian saint to make her more appealing to American audiences. Does this make the 1959 film some sort of Der Stürmer?

No.

Again, do you own any of the films? When did you last watch one?
 
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Montana Smith said:
I wasn't talking about Anne Frank, but now you come to mention it...
I'm starting to think you've never seen the films (or read her post) either!

Please explain, your slideshow, (and sideshow) isn't helping!
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm starting to think you've never seen the films (or read her post) either!

Please explain, your slideshow, (and sideshow) isn't helping!

Anne Frank is mere a sideshow. RKO was writing about the supposed omission of a Jewish 'donation' in TLC.

And now we're debating what constitutes humour? :confused:

Even Donovan found it hard keeping a straight face in the company of the Sultan of Bling.
 
Montana Smith said:
Anne Frank is mere a sideshow. RKO was writing about the supposed omission of a Jewish 'donation' in TLC.
AH! OK, I can see that, though she doesn't make it clear, or respond to it. More on that later.

Montana Smith said:
And now we're debating what constitutes humour? :confused:
No. You could cut to the chase and explain what's funny. We haven't even established what the joke IS to even consider if its funny or not!

Montana Smith said:
Even Donovan found it hard keeping a straight face in the company of the Sultan of Bling.
He's getting what he wants without any further effort...what's the joke?!

You're going to have to watch the scene Tana...cause you can't explain it!

Your DVD player or computer won't explode if you put the disk in...
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
No. You could cut to the chase and explain what's funny. We haven't even established what the joke IS to even consider if its funny or not!


He's getting what he wants without any further effort...what's the joke?!

You're going to have to watch the scene Tana...cause you can't explain it!

Your DVD player or computer won't explode if you put the disk in...


arts-graphics-2006_1172762a.jpg


+

a ton of gold braid, epaulettes, fez, fake beard, hamming it up as a fictional sultan who'd rather relieve his visitors of their transport than their intended bribe.


Here's another serious image for you:

sacha-baron-cohen-dictator.jpg
 
Montana Smith said:
...a ton of gold braid, epaulettes, fez, fake beard, hamming it up as a fictional sultan who'd rather relieve his visitors of their transport than their intended bribe.

I'd say there's a new thread on the horizon...with a poll.

I did chuckle at one point during the scene, but it was at an actual spoken joke...and I daresay you'll only find it in the film.

So either you get that disk spinning, or someone bails you out, regardless, I don't think your description qualifies, (that is, if anyone was laughing at that scene it wasn't for any of those reasons).

I think you just might be confusing or conlfating the two, Sacha and Alexei...maybe, just a little.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'd say there's a new thread on the horizon...with a poll.

I did chuckle at one point during the scene, but it was at an actual spoken joke...and I daresay you'll only find it in the film.

So either you get that disk spinning, or someone bails you out, regardless, I don't think your description qualifies, (that is, if anyone was laughing at that scene it wasn't for any of those reasons).

I think you just might be confusing or conlfating the two, Sacha and Alexei...maybe, just a little.

I always found the Sultan funny.

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If it was a US sit-com there'd be canned laughter to remind the audience not to take him seriously.
 

RKORadio

Guest
The de-Jew-ification is pretty common in Holocaust stories

Spielberg put Oskar Schindler at the front and centre - the "good Christian savior" - which upset a lot of Jewish groups who felt that the Jews were being portrayed as helpless victims needing to be saved.
 
RKORadio said:
The de-Jew-ification is pretty common in Holocaust stories

Spielberg put Oskar Schindler at the front and centre - the "good Christian savior" - which upset a lot of Jewish groups who felt that the Jews were being portrayed as helpless victims needing to be saved.
What does that have to do with Indiana Jones?
 

JuniorJones

TR.N Staff Member
Rocket Surgeon said:
What does that have to do with Indiana Jones?

Come on. Your not even trying.

Both Indiana and Oskar wore hats. Hats that suited their heads. You silly billy!

I have a question?

It is said that you only cause offence if someone is offended. If I was racist then I can make as many racist remarks in a room of like minded people as they see my remarks as causing no offence. It is only when I offended someone I can be deemed racist.

Would you except that you have a different sensibility in regards to reading of Indiana Jones and that if someone is offended by the films that they would have a valid grevience?

I could have watched TOD and indirectly saw Indian people classed as helpless or evil by a disrespectful hatch job against their race and culture.

I could gave also intetpretated one sequence where India's people are protrayed starving and helpless who were gifted by the a white god who fell from the sky, who the people begged via their meagre offerings to help them and save the children.

Is it not clearly presented that the Indian race is somewhat inferior to their white gods?
 
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