Indiana Jones 5: July 19, 2019

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Raiders90

Well-known member
Stoo said:
Indy 5 isn't going to take place during WW2 so why even mention it in this thread? :confused:

Hey, Mr. Condescending, if you look at the last page, people were discussing younger segments being set during WWII. I expressed my opinion that I wouldn't want to see any segments set during WWII.

And as to my belief that Indy doesn't fit in the 1940s being insane? Personal opinion. Indiana Jones isn't film noir. It's popcorn adventure. George Lucas' mistake with KOTCS was trying to push Indiana Jones into a genre that he's not supposed to be in. Shoehorning him into a '40s film noir environment would be the same sort of thing.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
Hey, Mr. Condescending, if you look at the last page, people were discussing younger segments being set during WWII. I expressed my opinion that I wouldn't want to see any segments set during WWII.
My mistake, then. :eek: Would?ve helped if you replied to a ?quote?, though. :whip:
Raiders112390 said:
And as to my belief that Indy doesn't fit in the 1940s being insane? Personal opinion. Indiana Jones isn't film noir. It's popcorn adventure. George Lucas' mistake with KOTCS was trying to push Indiana Jones into a genre that he's not supposed to be in. Shoehorning him into a '40s film noir environment would be the same sort of thing.
It?s not opinion, it's madness. :eek: You wrote that ?1940s = film noir? and that a film set in c.1943 would be Ford trying to be Bogart. :confused: Not too long ago, you didn't even understand what film noir was, dude. Some of the best cliffhanger serials are from the ?40s and they contain the very elements which inspired the Indy movies in the first place. Lucas & Spielberg have acknowledged the '40s as inspiration time & time again so, yes, it?s insane to say that Indy doesn?t fit that decade. :rolleyes:

You also wrote that the late ?50s are ?not really associated with any singular genre? when they are well known as a heyday of science-fiction flicks. (Plus, who says that Indy isn?t ?supposed to be in? that genre? Are you writing the rules instead of George?)
Attila the Professor said:
I don't think there's any chance we get another sidekick of Short Round's age, or even younger than Mutt, if that's what's being suggested.
Someone around Mutt?s age (or slightly older) is what I foresee. A calculated balance, who'll attract the furthest possible extremes of Disney?s female-target-market and also cater to the popcorn-munchin' male audience, too.
Violet said:
I'm agreeing with a young girl scenario- simply coz that's one of the things that is still sitting on the shelf since the days of ToD's development. I'm anticipating the elements that haven't been used up to this point are the ones we're likely to get.
Always nice to hear from you, Violet. Indeed, the series already had:
- an estranged girlfriend
- an orphaned boy
- an alienated dad
- an unknown son

What hasn?t been done yet? A young girl. (I?d prefer otherwise but...this is Disney now.)
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Stoo said:
Someone around Mutt?s age (or slightly older) is what I foresee. A calculated balance, who'll attract the furthest possible extremes of Disney?s female-target-market and also cater to the popcorn-munchin' male audience, too.

What hasn?t been done yet? A young girl. (I?d prefer otherwise but...this is Disney now.)

Disney is the studio that called films about Rapunzel and the Snow Queen to Tangled and Frozen, respectively, so that they might appear more action-oriented to appeal to boys. And the Marvel films have, what, 3 female heroes, none of whom have headlined a film? Keira Knightley is not the lead of the Pirates films. John Carter, the Lone Ranger...Disney's recent action films - as we're apparently including those produced under other studios - are still male-driven, with the only arguable exception that I can see being The Force Awakens and Rogue One. The Force Awakens, of course, is notably different in being an entry in a series that has no main character, apart, maybe, from a guy wearing a lot of black who's already dead.

I don't buy the argument that Disney releasing this film makes having a young woman as a sidekick a fait accompli.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Stoo said:
My mistake, then. :eek: Would’ve helped if you replied to a “quote”, though. :whip:
It’s not opinion, it's madness. :eek: You wrote that “1940s = film noir” and that a film set in c.1943 would be Ford trying to be Bogart. :confused: Not too long ago, you didn't even understand what film noir was, dude. Some of the best cliffhanger serials are from the ‘40s and they contain the very elements which inspired the Indy movies in the first place. Lucas & Spielberg have acknowledged the '40s as inspiration time & time again so, yes, it’s insane to say that Indy doesn’t fit that decade. :rolleyes:

My reference with regard to Bogart was Casablanca (1942). I'm simply not a Humphrey Bogart fan. And many of Indy's other film influences came out during the 1950s, yet, many people felt the 1950s was not a decade Indy should be in. I recall the majority opinion here at one time aligning with mine: That Indy shouldn't pass into the WWII or post-War era as the world became a much smaller place during and after. WWII marks for many the beginnings of the "modern era." I think there's a reason the original films directly avoided the 1940s. LC could've easily have been set in the 1940s to account for Ford's age, but they made sure to set it comfortably outside of the boundaries of WWII. And I'd like Indy to have enemies besides Nazis. Doing the Nazis for a third time would just be boring.

As for film noir:
The questions of what defines film noir, and what sort of category it is, provoke continuing debate. "We'd be oversimplifying things in calling film noir oneiric, strange, erotic, ambivalent, and cruel […]"—this set of attributes constitutes the first of many attempts to define film noir made by French critics Raymond Borde and Étienne Chaumeton in their 1955 book Panorama du film noir américain 1941–1953 (A Panorama of American Film Noir), the original and seminal extended treatment of the subject.[4] They emphasize that not every film noir embodies all five attributes in equal measure—one might be more dreamlike; another, particularly brutal.[5] The authors' caveats and repeated efforts at alternative definition have been echoed in subsequent scholarship: in the more than five decades since, there have been innumerable further attempts at definition, yet in the words of cinema historian Mark Bould, film noir remains an "elusive phenomenon […] always just out of reach".
Though film noir is often identified with a visual style, unconventional within a Hollywood context, that emphasizes low-key lighting and unbalanced compositions, films commonly identified as noir evidence a variety of visual approaches, including ones that fit comfortably within the Hollywood mainstream. Film noir similarly embraces a variety of genres, from the gangster film to the police procedural to the gothic romance to the social problem picture—any example of which from the 1940s and 1950s, now seen as noir's classical era, was likely to be described as a "melodrama" at the time."

So when even experts have a problem with the definition, it's not just me. When I speak of film noir, it's mainly a reference to the Bogart films of the 40s-50s. I'd prefer Indy not mucking around in WWII - the conversation we were having was about having Indy adventure around during WWII. If you can make a film that's set in the 40s and somehow avoids both the Nazis and the War in general, I'd be all for it. I just don't want to see Indy's adventures in the OSS, personally.

Truth be told, I just want to be on the right side of history for once. I championed KOTCS, and that didn't exactly work out for me.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Disney is the studio that called films about Rapunzel and the Snow Queen to Tangled and Frozen, respectively, so that they might appear more action-oriented to appeal to boys. And the Marvel films have, what, 3 female heroes, none of whom have headlined a film? Keira Knightley is not the lead of the Pirates films. John Carter, the Lone Ranger...Disney's recent action films - as we're apparently including those produced under other studios - are still male-driven, with the only arguable exception that I can see being The Force Awakens and Rogue One. The Force Awakens, of course, is notably different in being an entry in a series that has no main character, apart, maybe, from a guy wearing a lot of black who's already dead.

I don't buy the argument that Disney releasing this film makes having a young woman as a sidekick a fait accompli.

Look at Guardians of the Galaxy. Technically, a Disney film, right? No young girl sidekick.

That said, I would've preferred Indy to have had a daughter rather than a son, if he HAD to have children, in KOTCS, so a young girl sidekick doesn't bother me in theory. As long as it's respectful of Ford, unlike TFA* and as long as said sidekick isn't a Mary Sue. That said, I would've preferred if KOTCS hadn't introduced any children for Indy, period.

*= By this I mean, you had Han portrayed as an old geezer and you had Rey being able to pilot the Falcon better than Han ever could without any practice. I found that disrespectful. I don't want to see Indy as Obi-Wan. If Ford is going to star in Indy V, I want him to take center stage. There are ways to tailor a film around an older protagonist without said protagonist being a mentor or having his older age played for gags.
 

DARTH ZOIDBERG

Well-known member
DoomsdayFAN said:
Remember this quote from Ford:

"I've always thought there was an opportunity to do another. But I didn't want to do it without Steven [Spielberg]. And I didn't want to do it without a really good script. And happily we're working on both. Steven is developing a script now that I think we're going to be very happy with."

That was from 7 months ago. Put that together with Koepp's comments from about 1-2 weeks ago and it would appear they've been working on the script for at or around 7 months. Hopefully things are going good but I still can't get over how much time is between now and the release date. It seems like 2018 would have been a far more reasonable time to release it. 2019 is so damn far away. Just.....why? :confused:

that sounds about the right amount of time to write a script plus there will most likely be re writes just look no further then TFA Michael Arndt wrote the original script for TFA but Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan finished it up. Right now Spielberg is filming Ready Player One I am sure by the time he is finished with RPO the Indy 5 script will be done and filming will commence after casting of course!

I just looked on IMDB they say Ready Player One Is In post production, Does anybody know when RPO comes out I have the book I will read it soon!
 
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DoomsdayFAN

Member
DARTH ZOIDBERG said:
that sounds about the right amount of time to write a script plus there will most likely be re writes just look no further then TFA Michael Arndt wrote the original script for TFA but Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan finished it up. Right now Spielberg is filming Ready Player One I am sure by the time he is finished with RPO the Indy 5 script will be done and filming will commence after casting of course!

I just looked on IMDB they say Ready Player One Is In post production, Does anybody know when RPO comes out I have the book I will read it soon!

RPO comes out March 30th, 2018. Seems ridiculous. Should be out by fall 2017.

The book is excellent. I loved it! You should definitely read it before seeing the movie and before having anything spoiled. You won't regret it.
 

DARTH ZOIDBERG

Well-known member
DoomsdayFAN said:
RPO comes out March 30th, 2018. Seems ridiculous. Should be out by fall 2017.

The book is excellent. I loved it! You should definitely read it before seeing the movie and before having anything spoiled. You won't regret it.
yea I started it last night, not that far in and I already love the 1980's homages!:)

also If RPO Is In post production I am sure the film gets bumped up to 2017 it is ahead of schedule!
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
My reference with regard to Bogart was Casablanca (1942). I'm simply not a Humphrey Bogart fan. And many of Indy's other film influences came out during the 1950s, yet, many people felt the 1950s was not a decade Indy should be in. I recall the majority opinion here at one time aligning with mine: That Indy shouldn't pass into the WWII or post-War era as the world became a much smaller place during and after. WWII marks for many the beginnings of the "modern era." I think there's a reason the original films directly avoided the 1940s. LC could've easily have been set in the 1940s to account for Ford's age, but they made sure to set it comfortably outside of the boundaries of WWII. And I'd like Indy to have enemies besides Nazis. Doing the Nazis for a third time would just be boring.
My memory & observations see the exact opposite regarding WW2. Loads of fans want to see Indy continue beatin’ up Natzis (though, I agree that it’s been done enough). Those who don’t like Indy in the ‘50s may feel that way because there were no Natzis around to beat up! :)

Oh, and Indy coming down a spiral staircase and sitting at a table wearing a white tuxedo is Bogart in “Casablanca” all the way. Here’s an article for you (translated...but check out the screen comparisons between "Casablanca" & “Raiders”):
Raiders112390 said:
As for film noir:
No need for the cinema lesson, trust me.
Raiders112390 said:
So when even experts have a problem with the definition, it's not just me. When I speak of film noir, it's mainly a reference to the Bogart films of the 40s-50s. I'd prefer Indy not mucking around in WWII - the conversation we were having was about having Indy adventure around during WWII. If you can make a film that's set in the 40s and somehow avoids both the Nazis and the War in general, I'd be all for it. I just don't want to see Indy's adventures in the OSS, personally.
Defining the term wasn’t the issue. It was your insistence that a 1940s Indy movie would automatically be “shoehorning him into a film noir environment” as if it was the only style of the time. There’s much more to that decade than just film noir...

...and there’s much more to noir than just Humphrey Bogart but since he's your only point of reference, get this; “Casablanca” (1942), “The Maltese Falcon” (1941) and “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” (1948) have all been mentioned, numerous times, by The Beards as inspirations for RotLA. Each of those are Bogart flicks and each of them are from the ‘40s so the very thing you’re biased towards is already there. ;)

Just because you don't want to see Indy in WW2 doesn't mean that he "doesn't fit" the '40s.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Disney is the studio that called films about Rapunzel and the Snow Queen to Tangled and Frozen, respectively, so that they might appear more action-oriented to appeal to boys. And the Marvel films have, what, 3 female heroes, none of whom have headlined a film? Keira Knightley is not the lead of the Pirates films. John Carter, the Lone Ranger...Disney's recent action films - as we're apparently including those produced under other studios - are still male-driven, with the only arguable exception that I can see being The Force Awakens and Rogue One. The Force Awakens, of course, is notably different in being an entry in a series that has no main character, apart, maybe, from a guy wearing a lot of black who's already dead.

I don't buy the argument that Disney releasing this film makes having a young woman as a sidekick a fait accompli.
Au contraire, mon ami. :)

- ?Tangled? & ?Frozen?: Marketing girl-stories for boys just reinforces my point.
- ?Pirates? & Marvel: Who was talking about Headline Heroines? Not me.
- ?John Carter? & ?Lone Ranger?: Both money-making failure$.
--------------
- ?Star Wars?: Rey is the new Luke (the original MAIN character) and ?Rogue One? seems to be focusing on a young woman. Perhaps this has more to do with Kathleen Kennedy than it does with Disney (or a combination of the two)? :confused:

Whatever the case, a female villain was in Indy #4 and it?s doubtful that Marion will be running around in #5...so who?s next? I can?t help feeling that a girl will play a prominent part in Indy 5...anyway, anyhow, anywhere.
 

Indyfan82

Member
I just wanted to make one comment regarding the timing for the movie. (I know there's another thread for this, but this is in response to something that's been raised in this thread.)
I understand some people seem to only prefer Indy in certain eras, but I don't know that I see Indiana Jones 5 being set in the 1940s. (Not that it'd be the first time we've had a prequel movie, what with Temple of Doom being set before Raiders of the Lost Ark and all.) However, while I wouldn't mind a World War II-era Indy adventure, I think just logistically at this point there's no way the movie can go but forward. I think it's going to have to be set somewhere from 1957 on forward. (I feel like it'll probably be in the 1960s, just because of Ford's age.) And I would be cool with that- there is a ton of history in the '60s that would be interesting to see Indy interacting with (though I don't think the movie should make too strong of an emphasis on the time period.)
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Indyfan82, it's already been said that the film will follow the events of KOTCS, so it will likely be set sometime after 1957. It could be very easily, with enough makeup, be set in 1958 or 1959, thus avoiding the 1960s. We'll have to see, I suppose. 2019 is such a long time away unfortunately.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Also, the noir period doesn't begin in earnest until '45, as it's in large part a postwar phenomenon.

I've gotta politely disagree with that. Many consider The Maltese Falcon (1941) to be the launch of the mainstream film noir, and if Double Indemnity (1944) isn't a noir, nothing is.

Of course, dates might be irrelevant. Spielberg made a pretty conscious choice to imbue the 30s Indy movies with noirish imagery, and some of the story ideas of Crystal Skull dip into popular hoaxes circa the 60s-70s rather than staying exclusively in the 50s milieu.

So the movies have a history of cheating a little bit in this regard, although to fair to the Beards it's not like they ever established a standard of sourcing their influences exclusively from the decade of the storyline.
 
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Indyfan82

Member
Indyfan82, it's already been said that the film will follow the events of KOTCS, so it will likely be set sometime after 1957. It could be very easily, with enough makeup, be set in 1958 or 1959, thus avoiding the 1960s. We'll have to see, I suppose. 2019 is such a long time away unfortunately.
Good to know it's been confirmed that the film will follow the events of KOTCS. Thanks for that, Raiders112390. Thus, it will most likely be after 1957. Yes, I could maybe see it being set in 1959- but there will be 11 years between these two films. To go in real time, that would make the new movie set in 1968- but I doubt that will be the setting. I've heard others say the year 1962 as a guess; I think that year would work well. The Cuban Missile Crisis happened that year- that would work well with the Communism scare and the possibility of nuclear holocaust- I could see those events playing into the movie in some small way. It might also fit into an espionage theme, which I think would be fitting, since Indy was a spy in World War I- and spy films and TV shows were definitely a trending thing in the '60s. (Also particularly fitting since the original movie James Bond- Sir Sean Connery- also played Indy's dad!)
 

TheFedora

Active member
http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ne...tagesquot-could-marion-ravenwood-return/21735

"That's still in the thinking stages," producer Frank Marshall recently told Fandango during a conversation tied to the DVD/Blu-ray release of Jason Bourne on December 6.

At the conclusion of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Indy finally married his longtime love Marion Ravenwood (Karen Allen), and when we brought up the next Indiana Jones movie to Marshall, we asked whether there was room for Marion to return. "I don't know, because that's one I'm not involved in until they come up with the idea and the plan of where they want to go," Marshall said. "Then I get involved."

Its still very vague at this stage I guess. But it does seem that Marion might not return. Or at least thats the vibe I got from this.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Let's be real here:
Disney pushed the date so far away in the hope Ford will die in the interim and they won't have to deal with him.

That way, they win either way. They announced it while he was still alive, so it doesn't look like they're disrespecting the dead by reaping in the cash cow without him; and then they can "dedicate it to his memory."

I get the feeling that the people at Disney probably really don't like Ford and view him as a milestone to their plans with Indy, and so are hoping 2018 is far enough away that they won't have to deal with a living Ford.
 

AndyLGR

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
Let's be real here:
Disney pushed the date so far away in the hope Ford will die in the interim and they won't have to deal with him.

That way, they win either way. They announced it while he was still alive, so it doesn't look like they're disrespecting the dead by reaping in the cash cow without him; and then they can "dedicate it to his memory."

I get the feeling that the people at Disney probably really don't like Ford and view him as a milestone to their plans with Indy, and so are hoping 2018 is far enough away that they won't have to deal with a living Ford.
Possibly one of the most distasteful posts I've ever read on here. Btw it's millstone not milestone.
 
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