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Old 06-18-2009, 06:51 PM   #226
Arizona Smith
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Marion getting hit by a branch in KotCS. I know directors sometimes like to sneak in quick, pointless scenes just for the hell of it but Marion randomly getting hit by a branch is a whole new level of pointless. Unless I missed something that would add some significance to this.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:39 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

Yeah, Indy as a mercenary for organized crime is real sophistication!

Indy starts out greedy and selfish. "Fortune and Glory." At the end of the movie, he's nice. Saves kids, gives diamonds away to poor villagers.

It's called a "character arc", son.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:41 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by graz
I really don't like the end of TOD. I know its supposed to be corny and old fashioned but I just find it squirmy and embarrassing. Made worse by the fact that after all he's been through i would imagine Indy would want to get as far away from Willie as possible.

You know what, as much as I love TOD, I can't entirely disagree with you here.

The other movies have quieter, elegant endings. ToD is noisy and corny as all hell.

I know that we needed to see the village saved, the kids returning home and Indy giving the stone back. But part of me wishes we could ended with Indy, Willie and Shorty in a long shot walking back to the village with the kids out in front. Quieter, classier and more subdued.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:44 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Indy starts out greedy and selfish. "Fortune and Glory." At the end of the movie, he's nice. Saves kids, gives diamonds away to poor villagers.

It's called a "character arc", son.

This is why TOD is so great; its the only one of the four where Indy's actions "matter."

In ROTLA, if Indy had not been there, Nazis still would have gotten the Ark and been killed when they opened it.

In LC, if Indy had not been there, Donovan would have still aged to dust, and Elsa probably would have been killed trying to take the Grail past the seal. This is assuming Elsa and Donovan would have made it past the traps without Indy's help, which is doubtful.

In KOTCS, Spalko would have still been incinerated by alien knowledge if Indy had not been involved.

But in TOD, Indy actually accomplishes something worthwhile, something that would not have occurred but for his involvement.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:20 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Smith
Marion getting hit by a branch in KotCS. I know directors sometimes like to sneak in quick, pointless scenes just for the hell of it but Marion randomly getting hit by a branch is a whole new level of pointless. Unless I missed something that would add some significance to this.

I believe it was to show that no one was in control of the duck whilst Mutt was straddling both vehicles. As it is in the movie, it's clearly looks a bit out of place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Indy starts out greedy and selfish. "Fortune and Glory." At the end of the movie, he's nice. Saves kids, gives diamonds away to poor villagers.

It's called a "character arc", son.

You really believe that's a discernable character arc? I don't see a horrible Indy at the start of TOD... so I'm struggling to see where his emotional journey of discovery is.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:41 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile



You really believe that's a discernable character arc? I don't see a horrible Indy at the start of TOD... so I'm struggling to see where his emotional journey of discovery is.

Absolutely. They don't beat you over the head with it, but it's there.

Indy doesn't have to start out as "horrible" to have a meaningful degree of growth.

In the beginning of the film, Indy is selling a priceless, historically relevant artifact for a chunk of bling.

Willie pointedly tells Indy he's giving up "fortune and glory" at the end of the film, but he makes the selfless choice to give up the stone because it's the right thing to do.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:43 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
This is why TOD is so great; its the only one of the four where Indy's actions "matter."

In ROTLA, if Indy had not been there, Nazis still would have gotten the Ark and been killed when they opened it.

In LC, if Indy had not been there, Donovan would have still aged to dust, and Elsa probably would have been killed trying to take the Grail past the seal. This is assuming Elsa and Donovan would have made it past the traps without Indy's help, which is doubtful.

In KOTCS, Spalko would have still been incinerated by alien knowledge if Indy had not been involved.

But in TOD, Indy actually accomplishes something worthwhile, something that would not have occurred but for his involvement.

Another lovely piece of analysis!
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:42 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
This is why TOD is so great; its the only one of the four where Indy's actions "matter."

In ROTLA, if Indy had not been there, Nazis still would have gotten the Ark and been killed when they opened it.

In LC, if Indy had not been there, Donovan would have still aged to dust, and Elsa probably would have been killed trying to take the Grail past the seal. This is assuming Elsa and Donovan would have made it past the traps without Indy's help, which is doubtful.

In KOTCS, Spalko would have still been incinerated by alien knowledge if Indy had not been involved.

But in TOD, Indy actually accomplishes something worthwhile, something that would not have occurred but for his involvement.

Good point, but I'm not sure of the true ramifications... Wouldn't Henry Jones Senior have been killed if Indy had not got involved in the search for the Grail? Wouldn't Marion and Oxley have been done away with if Indy had not gone to find them? Those specific examples show that the ramifications were personal to him. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why I don't feel much emotion for TOD i.e. the events just sort of happen. And whilst I appreciate the fact that Indy does give the stone back to the village (and helps them with their issue), it's all a bit emotionally cold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Absolutely. They don't beat you over the head with it, but it's there.

Indy doesn't have to start out as "horrible" to have a meaningful degree of growth.

In the beginning of the film, Indy is selling a priceless, historically relevant artifact for a chunk of bling.

Willie pointedly tells Indy he's giving up "fortune and glory" at the end of the film, but he makes the selfless choice to give up the stone because it's the right thing to do.

Similar to the other thread... The examples you give are just lip service examples within the movie. For example, it's like arguing that there was significant character development in 'Batman Forever' i.e. at the start of the movie Batman is a loner, broody and works alone. By the end of the movie, he’s come to terms with his psychosis and is partnered (not in the biblical sense) with ‘Robin’. You could argue that, in simplistic terms, there is actually more character development for Batman/Bruce Wayne in ‘Batman Forever’, than there is in ‘The Dark Night’… but we know that would be absurd (a bit like arguing ‘Batman & Robin’ has the best use of neon lighting).

Last edited by Darth Vile : 06-19-2009 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 06-20-2009, 01:26 AM   #234
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To say that TOD is to Raiders what Batman Forever is to The Dark Knight is not a valid argument because of the fact that TOD is IN THEORY, a better than sex movie!
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:22 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang
To say that TOD is to Raiders what Batman Forever is to The Dark Knight is not a valid argument because of the fact that TOD is IN THEORY, a better than sex movie!

Not sure what the "better than sex" thing is??? But, yes, I think Raiders is a more qualitative movie than TOD. That's not to say that TOD isn't well made or enjoyable... just that it' not quite up there with your Raiders, The Empire Strikes Back, Back to the Future, Terminator II or The Lord of the Rings etc. Therefore, I do think that the gap in quality between Raiders and TOD is similar to The Dark Night and Batman Forever (although that particular example was just off the top of my head).

I'm sure someone will disagree though...
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:23 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Good point, but I'm not sure of the true ramifications... Wouldn't Henry Jones Senior have been killed if Indy had not got involved in the search for the Grail? Wouldn't Marion and Oxley have been done away with if Indy had not gone to find them?

Absolutely right, indeed there are many things that would have been different in each story had Indy not been there. I guess my point was that TOD is the only film in which his actions have any effect on the bad guys in relation to their ultimate end, and in relation to the macguffin.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:39 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
This is why TOD is so great; its the only one of the four where Indy's actions "matter."

In ROTLA, if Indy had not been there, Nazis still would have gotten the Ark and been killed when they opened it.

In LC, if Indy had not been there, Donovan would have still aged to dust, and Elsa probably would have been killed trying to take the Grail past the seal. This is assuming Elsa and Donovan would have made it past the traps without Indy's help, which is doubtful.

In KOTCS, Spalko would have still been incinerated by alien knowledge if Indy had not been involved.

But in TOD, Indy actually accomplishes something worthwhile, something that would not have occurred but for his involvement.
Those are all very good points. However, we do not know whether Irina and the soldiers were incinerated or interdimensionally transported. Fewer of Jones' enemies would have died, had he not been involved, but they would not have been able to complete their missions either. The German government would have gotten hold of the Ark, but, much like its American counterpart at the end of the film, would not have been able to do much with it.

Last edited by Von Stalhein : 06-24-2009 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:19 PM   #238
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My lest favorite scene is when marion and indy are on the boat in rotla
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:13 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
You know what, as much as I love TOD, I can't entirely disagree with you here.

The other movies have quieter, elegant endings. ToD is noisy and corny as all hell.

I know that we needed to see the village saved, the kids returning home and Indy giving the stone back. But part of me wishes we could ended with Indy, Willie and Shorty in a long shot walking back to the village with the kids out in front. Quieter, classier and more subdued.

i LOVE tod's ending,becuase unlike the other films, it was becuase of Indy that the village is prosperous again,and that all those children are now free, and after all that dark,evil temple for the majority of the film we get Indy,who got the girl and saved the day. I just love how it ends with Indy kissing willie surrounded by the now free children as the raiders march blasts. just a great way to end the "indiana jones goes to hell" film on a happy upbeat note.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #240
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I hate Marions drinking scene. I've watched it at least 30 times and I always want to skip it but never do.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:06 PM   #241
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My least favorite scene from Raiders was at the beginning when one of Indy's companions runs away screaming from some bats flying from a wooden statue's mouth. It just wasn't something a grown man would go running from screaming his head off. Doesn't ruin the beginning scene for me though, I just always thought it was funny.
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Old 08-07-2009, 03:54 PM   #242
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I strongly disliked last crusade. I mean everything leading to the tanks was awful, but if I had to pick one it would be indy dressed as a scottish lord. It was just strange. I have no clue why it was put there.
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:04 AM   #243
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I don't much care for Indy as the Scottish guy either. The traveling scenes in Temple also don't really do it for me. I'm thinking, enough already, let's get to the heart-ripping stuff!
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:35 AM   #244
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The speedboat chase from Last Crusade. Barely even paced, about as exciting as Barbara Streisand.
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:07 AM   #245
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There's actually nothing in the original three that bothers me. They're classics, guilty pleasures. I think my least favorite part of Raiders must be the basket chase. In Temple there's not anything that bothers me. It's supposed to be wild, over the top, cheesy... Last Crusade didn't bother me either. It was for a long time the only Indy I was allowed to see. Maybe the broad daylight start and the comic beginning. Herman falling of his horse or Indy's horse taking a step right when he jumps. Though I thought that was a good one. It's a big difference though after everything that happened in Temple.

KOTCS, entire last forty minutes, including what Arizona Smith said. Marion being randomly hit by branches. And was the three time drop really necessary too?
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:50 AM   #246
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Every scene in LC involving a bumbling Marcus.
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:28 PM   #247
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Honestly I can't really think about any scene from the trilogy that I don't like.

There are a couple of scenes I didn't like in Crystal Skull though, the tarzan scene (I understand it was meant as a homage to the monkey from Raiders but it's still very cheesy) and the rodents scene after Indy gets out from Hangar 51.
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:58 PM   #248
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Can't really think of anything. The OT is nearly perfect IMO.

Can we erase KOTCS though?
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:55 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sartorius
Every scene in LC involving a bumbling Marcus.
How does one get off this thing? *Poink* *Dich*
Where's Marcus?

Come on, that's funny.

Or the gun in his face and he's looking cross-eyed and the gun pointing in which way he should go and he's mimicking that same move in the temple.

Those are good jokes.
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Old 10-01-2016, 08:30 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy86
How does one get off this thing? *Poink* *Dich*
Where's Marcus?

Come on, that's funny.

Or the gun in his face and he's looking cross-eyed and the gun pointing in which way he should go and he's mimicking that same move in the temple.

Those are good jokes.

For me, those scenes would be completely fine if Marcus had been a new character created for LC. However, the version of Marcus in ROTLA, who not so long ago would have gone after the Ark himself, is much more interesting.
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