The World without KotCS, a better place?

eshine said:

uh, yeah - Menace was also probably the most anticipated film of all time, and that 924 million figure is to date - Skull has cleared 700 mill in a mere month.

reality check indeedy.

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And you can apply the same flawed logic to the 19 year anticipation for Indy 4, not to mention the fact that ticket prices have almost tripled and so has the general population. I'm sure the adjusted gross is much more telling of the actual figures.

Agent Spalko said:

And you can apply the same flawed logic to the 19 year anticipation for Indy 4, not to mention the fact that ticket prices have almost tripled and so has the general population. I'm sure the adjusted gross is much more telling of the actual figures.

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It's not flawed logic, just the truth.

If Indy 4 was even HALF as bad as you guys make it out to be, it would not be raking in millions weeks after it's release.

It's an entertaining popcorn flick just like the other sequels.

Nothing more, nothing less...

@eshine
"Indy 4" is not very successfull for an "Indiana Jones"-Movie. And by the way: Do you think "much money = Good movie"???

I did not stop smiling through the whole film. I laughed at all the jokes and silly things (even Mutt's Tarzan act). I had a great time and was just happy that an Indy film was made.
Later when i recapped on it I noticed its flaws and was annoyed that SS and GL had put them in an Indy movie. But now I'm fine with Indy 4. It was meant to be Indiana Jones on his most daring and out there adventure yet. It was set in the 50s and so was meant to be a homage to the 50s B-movies rather than the 30s serials that the trilogy was based on.
Though i didnt like the film i still liked it (confusing i know) and i'm just happy it happened.

i dont think KOTCS haters cant agree that they were happy that there is another indy movie even though it may have let them down.

I agree, Mutt - glad you enjoyed the film as much as I did!

I have a strong feeling alot of you will like this movie much more when you see it again for a second or third time. It's a really fun movie.

Agent Spalko said:

STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE = Worldwide: $924,317,558

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I do think you are making a fairly valid point with the Phantom Menace analogy. My only doubt is whether Indy is anything like the same beast as Star Wars in terms of fanatical fans. Indy has a broader appeal (in the viewings I went to, there were 50-60 year old couples in the audience) so I think the Box Office makeup is different. Are they likely to have a massive Indy Europe convention like they did for Star Wars for example?

eshine said:

It's not flawed logic, just the truth.

If Indy 4 was even HALF as bad as you guys make it out to be, it would not be raking in millions weeks after it's release.

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Wow... uhm... Wow. Logical fallacy up the ass. You sir fail at rhetoric.

So I guess it's safe to say, that it shouldn't have been made for some, but definitely made for others. I for one after seeing it a second time like that it has been made...and wouldnt' mind seeing another Indy and Mutt adventure during the end of the 1950's.

ResidentAlien said:

Wow... uhm... Wow. Logical fallacy up the ass. You sir fail at rhetoric.

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I agree that things like box office, and chart positions aren't the best indicator of quality. Box office is a reflection of marketing success and popularity. The question is this: Other than individual opinion, how does one gauge the quality of a film?

Using things like critics reviews and awards won are just ineffective as using box office numbers. Furthermore, as time goes on, these opinions change anyways.

I would say it wouldn't have been better if another Indy film had been made......but it WOULD have been better if THIS particular Indy movie hadn't been made. I've voiced my problems with the movie in several different threads, so there's no real need to rehash the myriads of points on what makes this such a poor film......but if they truly had wanted to make a new Indy movie for the fans, they should have thought longer and harder on the plot and script for handing us this drivel.

WOW! you know all of you have your opinoins on the film i applaud you for that but really , i'm so tired of you endlessly prattling on about it --- i see people complianing here on comingsoon.net and other sites --- and i just think that maybe you will never be happy --- it's just a movie , sure it won't be as great as raiders , nothing will , but it the same people in a few weeks will say that the dark knight sucks because of the actors suckee portrayal--- or that x-file will be bad cause it has "aliens" quit complaing and just chat about good things --- i'm sure you parent s always said " if you don't have anthing nice to say , don't say anything at all " i by the way like kotcs , there that what i have to say about that !

indyclone25 said:

WOW! you know all of you have your opinoins on the film i applaud you for that but really , i'm so tired of you endlessly prattling on about it --- i see people complianing here on comingsoon.net and other sites --- and i just think that maybe you will never be happy --- it's just a movie , sure it won't be as great as raiders , nothing will , but it the same people in a few weeks will say that the dark knight sucks because of the actors suckee portrayal--- or that x-file will be bad cause it has "aliens" quit complaing and just chat about good things --- i'm sure you parent s always said " if you don't have anthing nice to say , don't say anything at all " i by the way like kotcs , there that what i have to say about that !

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This is why I am now in LOVE with the ignore feature of this board

The Man said:

The ideal of Indy 4 was always worth pursuing, but overall, they should not have made it as it is. A decade of script wrangling...for this?!

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It would have been better if they made KOTCS into a good film - an Indiana Jones Film.

Mac is Indy's Friend. Mac isn't Indy's Friend. Mac is Indy's Friend. Mac isn't Indy's Friend. Mac is Indy's Friend. Mac isn't Indy's Friend.

Mac and Cheese.

Sucked

The movie sucked, period. And PLENTY of people think this. Rarely do I find a friend or coworker who enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of Raiders, and enjoy Doom and Crusade. KOTCS is nothing more than average to below average at best.

Great movies hit home on first viewing. This isn't a genre that requires multiple viewings to admire and appreciate nuances of character and plot. It's action.

Cough syrup is nasty on the first gulp, not quite as nasty on the second or third ... but it's still nasty. A couple months have passed, and the film was utterly forgettable. It's sad really.

George and Steve are simply not what they used to be.

By the way, I'm not expecting a carbon copy of Raiders. But I'm tired of people saying a new Indy film can't be as good as Raiders, in its own way. To say a sequel cannot be as good as the original is the biggest copout. There's plenty that pull it off (Aliens, T2, Godfather 2) -- it's just not easy to do and is rare, but it can be done with the right mix of talent.

motifone said:

Great movies hit home on first viewing. This isn't a genre that requires multiple viewings to admire and appreciate nuances of character and plot. It's action.

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I completely disagree with everything you just said, but especially this.

There are a lot of great movies that you can have growing appreciation for in multiple viewings, ESPECIALLY action movies. Action happens fast and in several cases need repeat viewings or just time to let it all sink in to completely form your own opinion on the film.

Forbidden Eye said:

There are a lot of great movies that you can have growing appreciation for in multiple viewings, ESPECIALLY action movies. Action happens fast and in several cases need repeat viewings or just time to let it all sink in to completely form your own opinion on the film.

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Or not...

The movie sucked, period. And PLENTY of people think this. Rarely do I find a friend or coworker who enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of Raiders, and enjoy Doom and Crusade. KOTCS is nothing more than average to below average at best.

Great movies hit home on first viewing. This isn't a genre that requires multiple viewings to admire and appreciate nuances of character and plot. It's action.

It is pretty much your god given right to dislike anything and voice your opinion about it. You didn't like Crystal Skull? Fine. However, stating your opinion and pretending that it is fact, or worse yet a universal truth that we all share, is what sucks... period. Rarely do I find a friend or coworker who disliked the new Indy film--so what?

Lots of people enjoyed Crystal Skull, and I am sure others did not. The same could be said about most movies ever made. Believe it or not, I had a girlfriend who slept through Raiders of the Lost Ark. We broke up shortly afterwards.

motifone said:

The movie sucked, period. And PLENTY of people think this. Rarely do I find a friend or coworker who enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of Raiders, and enjoy Doom and Crusade. KOTCS is nothing more than average to below average at best.

Great movies hit home on first viewing. This isn't a genre that requires multiple viewings to admire and appreciate nuances of character and plot. It's action.

Cough syrup is nasty on the first gulp, not quite as nasty on the second or third ... but it's still nasty. A couple months have passed, and the film was utterly forgettable. It's sad really.

George and Steve are simply not what they used to be.

By the way, I'm not expecting a carbon copy of Raiders. But I'm tired of people saying a new Indy film can't be as good as Raiders, in its own way. To say a sequel cannot be as good as the original is the biggest copout. There's plenty that pull it off (Aliens, T2, Godfather 2) -- it's just not easy to do and is rare, but it can be done with the right mix of talent.

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I enjoyed the movie from the first viewing, and each subsequent viewing.

I can't think of a freind or coworker who did not enjoy this fun popcorn flick - in fact, many of them said it was the best of the sequals or at least better than TOD.

I guess you and I live in two different worlds.

Forbidden Eye said:

I completely disagree with everything you just said, but especially this.

There are a lot of great movies that you can have growing appreciation for in multiple viewings, ESPECIALLY action movies. Action happens fast and in several cases need repeat viewings or just time to let it all sink in to completely form your own opinion on the film.

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There are a lot of great movies that you can have growing appreciation for in multiple viewings, ESPECIALLY action movies. Action happens fast and in several cases need repeat viewings or just time to let it all sink in to completely form your own opinion on the film.[/QUOTE]

Well, we'll just have to disagree then.

Let's say you see a film and love it. You repeatedly watch the film to appreciate it more -- to relive the experience, to discover new layers, etc. I'll buy that.

Verses...

You see a film and, in your gut, are disappointed. You decide to watch it over and over again until you bash your gut instincts into submission and eventually give the film a thumbs up. That's fanboy-ism at its best. No one else in their right mind would pay to see a mediocre film twice. Things are rarely as bad the second time around, that doesn't make it good. Great films hit the home run on first viewing and you go to see it again and again to appreciate it.

I see this again and again on these boards "Hey, I watched the film for a second time today... and it wasn't so bad!" Who shells out money to see a film they first thought was mediocre twice? Fanboys, and that's who are defending this film.