Remaining Jewish and Christian Relics

Crusade>Raiders

New member
sandiegojones said:
I think they should stay away from the bible.

I know, its not liek the best Indy films involve Biblical MacGuffins.

Oh wait...

I was hoping they do something like the Excalibur, to be honest. A weapon that could grant the wielder dreams, or give them "UNLIMITED POWAAAAAH(/palaptine).
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Nurhachi1991 said:
and Aliens are not?

Well, that depends on what you mean.

Though I thought they were out of place in an Indy movie, at least the existence of aliens is within the realm of reality and plausibility.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
TheMutt92 said:
Sounds like Da Vinci Code territory if you ask me.

Given that the Shroud of Turin has demonstrably been proven to be a fake, I think Indy's time would be better spent finding one of those grilled cheese sandwiches with Mary's face burned into it.

Then again, crystal skulls were widely known to be phony, too, so I guess we can't rule anything out.
 

thelaw

New member
How about the gifts of the Magi? The Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh

The Crown of Thorns?

Aaron or Moses' staffs, which would be an interesting way to bring in a more overt religious context and gray area, if three religions were searching for it/them and were after Indy for being in possesion of it/them.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
thelaw said:
How about the gifts of the Magi? The Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh

The Crown of Thorns?

Aaron or Moses' staffs, which would be an interesting way to bring in a more overt religious context and gray area, if three religions were searching for it/them and were after Indy for being in possesion of it/them.

It sounds like you're reaching here, just name checking any object which happened to be in the bible at some point.

The thing about the Ark and the Grail, though, is that both (Grail especially) have a long history of literature, story and mystery already built around them, not just any random item which just happened to mentioned in the bible.

The great thing about the Indiana Jones universe is that it's ecumenical. The Judeo Christian tradition isn't the only game in town.

One could argue that it seems pretty clear that Yaweh and Jesus probably definitely exist in the Indy universe.

But so does the Hindu pantheon.

Lots of gods up there. Personally, I'd like one of the other religions to get a crack in the next Indy installment.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Moedred said:
Must resist... plugging fanfic. :)
With all due respect, I (having read your fan fiction before and commented on this subject in the past quite a while back when I still frequented this board) don't see the Shroud of Turin as a fitting MacGuffin, for these reasons:
  • It's location is known. In order to have a "quest" for it, you'd have to rewrite historty. Of course, GL has done this in the past, but I think he should stray away from that if possible.
  • What power, other than healing or communication with God, could it have? Both have been done in the past. Sorry, I can't remember whether Moedred assigned a power to it or not...
  • It's lackluster. It's just a bloody linen with dubious origins.
  • Twice Indy's found artifacts from the Bible. Twice Indy's found artifacts from other religions. In the "EU," Indy searches for many non-Biblical artifacts. This vein should be followed if other movies are produced, and the next artifact should be unaffiliated with Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

Lance Quazar said:
Lots of gods up there.
Personally, I think that, in the Indy universe at least, all of the benevolent deities (Hindu, Judeo-Christian, etc.) are the same Being (many paths to the same place), and all of the evil deities (Kali, etc.) are the same Being. The benevolent deities are a form of Good, and the bad are simply forms of Evil. Thus, from my interpretation, there are no "gods" in the Indy universe, just Good and Evil.
Obviously, Siva, Jehovah, Christ, etc. are Good.
Kali, the Devil (Hell is mentioned as Indy fights Mola Ram), etc. are Bad.
And KotCS's aliens are "interdimensional" and fall somewhere in between Good and Evil.
 
Last edited:

Nurhachi1991

Well-known member
Lance Quazar said:
Well, that depends on what you mean.

Though I thought they were out of place in an Indy movie, at least the existence of aliens is within the realm of reality and plausibility.



and Noahs Ark and the Garden of Eden are not? You sir are funny :p
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
WillKill4Food said:
don't see the Shroud of Turin as a fitting MacGuffin
Thanks for reading! I made it the nonmagical teaser macguffin. The villain believed it could resurrect. The tale does not interfere with history as we know it.

Speaking of resurrection... what if the Holy Prepuce caused severe weather in Calcata, Italy because it was trying to ascend and rejoin Christ? And whoever possessed the foreskin might ascend with it, and gain immortality, even godhood. Something like a papal decree against circumcision could trigger its departure.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Nurhachi1991 said:
and Noahs Ark and the Garden of Eden are not? You sir are funny :p

No, of course those ideas aren't plausible, they're fairy tales. Even the Catholic Church agrees that Genesis is not literally true and acknowledges recognized scientific principles like the age of the universe and evolution.

The other Judeo Christian MacGuffins in Indy films are at least from legitimate historical periods whether you believe they existed or not.

As for aliens, while I certainly don't believe anyone has been visiting earth, yeah, the concept that in this staggeringly massive universe life exists somewhere else is highly, highly probable. Versus believing that a 900 year old man gathered 2 of every animal on the face of the earth (including millions of species of insects!) onto a boat or that the entire human race was spawned from a single spontaneously-created couple who hung out with a talking snake.

So I have no desire to see Indy finding wreckage of said boat or said garden in any films, as the concepts are downright absurd.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Lance Quazar said:
entire human race was spawned from a single spontaneously-created couple
The Bible doesn't say that. Read Genesis 6.

By the way, starting a theological debate here would be like going into a hat discussion and writing "no, the jacket is where it's at, people!"
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
indyt said:
"No, of course those ideas aren't plausible, they're fairy tales. "

Thats your opinion.

I'm not talking about opinion, I'm talking about scientific fact. We know for a fact that the world was not created in the manner described in Genesis. Period.

If you want to view it as a metaphor for how the universe was created by god, fine. But we know the earth was not created in six days, we know the universe is billions of years old and we know the human race was not spawned by Adam and Eve.

These facts are not up for debate.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Moedred said:
By the way, starting a theological debate here would be like going into a hat discussion and writing "no, the jacket is where it's at, people!"

I actually don't think that would be out of line, either. :)

If there was a thread saying "the hat is the great bit of Indy's costume" and I wrote, "I prefer the cool jacket," that's still contribution to the conversation in a meaningful way.

But my larger points before we got sidetracked are as follows:

1) More than one religious tradition has been shown to be "real" in the Indy universe, so I'd like to see that happen again for freshness and variety.

2) The two biggest artifacts from the Bible have already been used, anyway. Most of the other suggested objects in this thread have, at best, minimal religious, historical or mystical significance.

3) As such, see #1
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Lance Quazar said:
...The two biggest artifacts from the Bible have already been used, anyway...

Chuckle, not THE biggest one. But that's an artifact for another thread; on another board.
 

indyt

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
I'm not talking about opinion, I'm talking about scientific fact. We know for a fact that the world was not created in the manner described in Genesis. Period.

If you want to view it as a metaphor for how the universe was created by god, fine. But we know the earth was not created in six days, we know the universe is billions of years old and we know the human race was not spawned by Adam and Eve.

These facts are not up for debate.

I agree with Pale Horse. I have been in many theo debates on this board and dont feel like another one. I beleive in the Genesis account literally. Thats what I believe and wont argue with what you believe. Cool.
 

Ray Hare

New member
what about this?
Indiana Jones and the Sacred Relic
The Story Synopisis
It is 1959 the Cold War is beginning to escalate. The tension between Communist and Capitalist doctrine is heightening. Each side is looking for something that will finally vanquish their foe. In this climate Indy finds himself in a race with China, the United States and Great Britain to find the greatest relic of all, the True Cross of Christ. For each know whoever holds the ultimate symbol of Christianity holds the balance of power, over the world.
Characters
Van Leung ? an elite officer of the Chinese army. Cold, calculating and cunning. His loyalty to China and its Communist government is unwavering. He will stop at nothing to retrieve the Cross of Christ.
Thomas Thorne ? member of the British Secret Service MI5. Working with the US army. His vast knowledge of spy networks and ability to use this to anticipate his opponent?s next move makes him highly desirable in the Cold War environment. The pursuit of the cross is a race he wants to be first over the finish line.
General Cooper-Harding ? a general in the US army. Comes from a family with a long line of military service dating back to the war of independence. A fierce patriot, his pursuit of the Cross of Christ lies in preventing the Chinese obtaining it so they cannot use it to spread their Communist doctrine.
Indy ? the famous archaeologist. His ability to obtain rare ancient artefacts makes his value in the race for the True Cross a priority. He may have gotten older but he has also gotten wiser. Unlike previous adventures, in this race, fortune and glory is not the prize.
Marion Ravenwood - now married to Indy and still as feisty as ever. Her help to recover the Ark of the Covenant and Crystal Skull was legendary. Her help to find the Cross of Christ will be invaluable.
Preston Ryan ? a former student of Indy. His pursuit of the True Cross has been an obsession since leaving College. His association with the Chinese is unclear. He has always admired Indy but unlike Indy his academic skills far out way his physical prowess.
Sallah ? a long time friend of Indy. He was with Indy when he retrieved the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail. His connections in Egypt and his great friendship with Indy makes him a valuable ally.:whip:
 

IndyFan89

Member
Lance Quazar said:
These facts are not up for debate.

Yes they are or you wouldn't be debating them would you?

They're are millions of debates over said "facts" that you say are not arguable. Hypothesis is not fact it's opinion.

Lets keep things friendly here and not insult other peoples religion. I myself know for a "FACT"(no joke) that God is real, but i don't make it a habit of shoving it down other peoples throat. :hat:

So back to Indy, the Garden, maybe, Noah's Ark, not so much. I like the Sacred Relic as stated above. The Cross is something the allot people would like to get they're hands on. (y)

Take away Marion and add Short Round to Ray's story and we got a winner.
 
Top