TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > The Films > Indiana Jones 5
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-20-2009, 11:09 AM   #176
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
Heybuddy, you're right.

I even toyed with the idea of using the discovery of the DNA ladder in the 50's leading to Jacob ascending heaven. The 'tree of life being' the genetic code that makes us like God.

It's such a rich garden for a story. No pun intended....
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 11:41 PM   #177
The Stranger
IndyFan
 
The Stranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Italia
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I know exactly what you mean.

Hey, Pale Horse, weren't you the one who managed to read the "Garden of Life" screenplay???

Coming to think of it, just seeing that word "exactly" have made me curious.
The Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 12:22 AM   #178
IndyFan89
IndyFan
 
IndyFan89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Burbank
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob
Let us look at the last Indy esque example of CGI - The Mummr Returns; whole environments were CGI it just looked really out of place. Even more so in an Indy film because the Indy films generally depend on interaction with his environment Indy is an earthy hero and does not belong in CGI Environments

Stole the words from my mouth.
IndyFan89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 12:31 AM   #179
Attila the Professor
Moderator
 
Attila the Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan89
Stole the words from my mouth.

Many, many years ago.
Attila the Professor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 04:48 PM   #180
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
Pulled my first sketch card! White gouache, nice choice.
Tossed all the Indy 5 base cards. They're common, right?



(Actually I'm just a supporter of the arts.)
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 04:25 PM   #181
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
...now a REDIRECT
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:33 PM   #182
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
Kasdan couldn't help but base his villain on French writer and antisemite Joseph Hilaire Pierre René Belloc (1870-1953).

So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998, and made it a search for Eden through South America against the rival "Professor Conrad," could he have based such a character on the German botanist Conrad Moench (1744-1805)? He's a lesser figure than Belloc and would surely have been pulled from some encyclopedia of botanists, just speculatin'.
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 06:47 PM   #183
Uki
IndyFan
 
Uki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 279
I have thought that a good idea for the next MacGuffin would be The Book of Abraham. (Actually, the gf has to get credit for the idea.)

Has anyone here read The Alchemist or its sequels?
Uki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 03:00 PM   #184
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
Eden by Thomas Cole. Then...

...and now?
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 06:38 PM   #185
foreignerfred
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998

First of all, Moedred, I want to thank you for your chronicles of Indy info from times past! It's great to have all that stored for lean times like these...

I wonder if you could site your sources for these bits, though. For example, reading the above quote about Kasdan working with Spielberg in `98 makes my heart go boom...but then I'm just left wondering where that tiny fragment of news came from.
foreignerfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 07:38 PM   #186
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
I dismissed the Kasdan rumor at first as a fan's wishful thinking. But then theRaider cocreator Jawad Mir confirmed his Dreamworks source was reliable. It's not easy using the web archive and theRaider's outdated list of related sites to dig back to the 1990's. You can use my links to determine the legitimacy of each quote. I think that's all I can skim without a Nexis account, or the collective memories of fans over 25!
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 08:58 PM   #187
foreignerfred
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
I dismissed the Kasdan rumor at first as a fan's wishful thinking. But then theRaider cocreator Jawad Mir confirmed his Dreamworks source was reliable. It's not easy using the web archive and theRaider's outdated list of related sites to dig back to the 1990's. You can use my links to determine the legitimacy of each quote. I think that's all I can skim without a Nexis account, or the collective memories of fans over 25!


Well, thank you for what you do, Moedred!

I personally believe Spielberg will guide this next film. He gave Lucas TOD and Lucas gave him LC. He gave Lucas KOTCS, so Lucas will (hopefully) give him Indy 5.

With that said, Steven's had time to polish HIS non-alien related ideas from the 20 year stint, and with a ROTLA anniversary coming up, I'm betting Kasdan will be getting a new Indy credit to his name.

Thanks again, Moedred. The messenger doesn't always get shot. Sometimes he gets a high five.
foreignerfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #188
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
So if he really took a crack at Indy 4 in 1998, and made it a search for Eden through South America against the rival "Professor Conrad," could he have based such a character on the German botanist Conrad Moench (1744-1805)? He's a lesser figure than Belloc and would surely have been pulled from some encyclopedia of botanists, just speculatin'.

Or more likely Joseph Conrad - his novel Nostromo has several lines about "a paradise of snakes", that is, man bringing corruption and evil into Latin America (where Nostromo is set). It's a metaphor for imperialism, which Conrad despised, especially after witnessing the horrors that were being perpetuated in the Belgian Congo. Which would also link Sons of Darkness to Conrad's Heart of Darkness.

Here is a quote from the novel:

"Yes, I remember," said Charles Gould, "it was Don Pepe who called the
gorge the Paradise of snakes. No doubt we have disturbed a great many.
But remember, my dear, that it is not now as it was when you made that
sketch." He waved his hand towards the small water-colour hanging alone
upon the great bare wall. "It is no longer a Paradise of snakes. We have
brought mankind into it, and we cannot turn our backs upon them to go
and begin a new life elsewhere."

It's a complex of ideas about temptation, corruption, human weakness, and so on.

I hadn't seen these old archives until just now, when I opened this thread. It makes another connection to the ideas I was working on in the Indy and Marion surviving the Ark thread.

Thanks for posting the link Moedred!

Last edited by Montana Smith : 01-29-2010 at 01:09 AM.
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 10:51 AM   #189
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
Those Cole paintings are a superb study in Chiaroscuro and entirely how I've seen it played out. Note particularly the ‘Rule of Four’ as it relates to Art in the linked thread.
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2010, 03:32 AM   #190
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Those Cole paintings are a superb study in Chiaroscuro and entirely how I've seen it played out. Note particularly the ‘Rule of Four’ as it relates to Art in the linked thread.

These are certainly striking paintings, Pale Horse. Full of brooding menace, and the struggle of light and darkness. A quick Google search brough up this page:

http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cole/cole.html

I find 'The Course of Empire: Desolation' particularly inspiring:

http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cole/cole6.html


A last glimmer of light in the sunset of civilization... But you can read so much into a painting like that.
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:25 AM   #191
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
sheeee...it just hit me. Offspring from the loins is one metaphorical way to keep the 'tree of life'....continually growing.
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010, 11:41 AM   #192
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
Are you suggesting another phallic Macguffin like the shiva linga? Interesting, Genesis never mentions apples, but in Solomon 2:3, "Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest is my lover among the young men. I delight to sit in his shade, and his fruit is sweet to my taste." That's your dirty Bible verse for the day.
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 05:08 PM   #193
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
...someone has to pick up the seeds and grow it.....
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 03:35 PM   #194
arkfinder
IndyFan
 
arkfinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the spirit of God
Posts: 409
The problem with the Tree of life is that it was burned up by Angels.

Now here's a few ideals that I'd like to throw out:

1. Noah's Ark

2. Excalibur

3. Screamer Arrow used by Genghis Khan: http://library.thinkquest.org/C003483/gksa.htm
arkfinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 07:34 PM   #195
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
Some Adventist art from, I think, a Stephen N Haskell book 100 years ago. You can count the Macguffins already used (no fourth nail here) and the one we've been talking about in this thread (it's not a plant).

It also reminds me of that Monty Python sketch:
Pope: "What in God's name possessed you to paint this with three Christs in it?"
Michelangelo: "It works, mate! The fat one balances the two skinny ones."
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2010, 12:54 AM   #196
AlivePoet
IndyFan
 
AlivePoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Montreal, Canada (living in Seoul, Korea)
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Some Adventist art from, I think, a Stephen N Haskell book 100 years ago. You can count the Macguffins already used (no fourth nail here) and the one we've been talking about in this thread (it's not a plant).

It also reminds me of that Monty Python sketch:
Pope: "What in God's name possessed you to paint this with three Christs in it?"
Michelangelo: "It works, mate! The fat one balances the two skinny ones."

That and Eric Idle's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" at the end of Life of Brian.
AlivePoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2010, 05:07 PM   #197
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,675
I flipped through R. Crumb's illustrated Genesis, with it's "whirling sword" beside the ugliest cherubim ever (even by Crumb's standards). He takes his translation from Robert Alter, who explains:
Quote:
The cherubim, a common feature of ancient Near Eastern mythology, are not to be confused with the round-cheeked darlings of Renaissance iconography. The root of the term either means "hybrid" or, by an inversion of consonants, "mount," "steed," and they are the winged beasts, probably of awesome aspect, on which the sky god of the old Canaanite myths and of the poetry of Psalms goes riding through the air. The fiery sword, not mentioned elsewhere but referred to with the definite article as though it were a familiar image, is a suitable weapon to set alongside the formidable cherubim.
And from Richard Elliott Friedman:
Quote:
Sphinxes. Creatures of mixed species, frequently with the head of a human, the body of a four-legged animal, and the wings of a bird. Cherubs guard the path to the tree of life. Later, statues of cherubs will be placed over the ark, seemingly guarding its contents, which are sources of wisdom and righteousness, which in turn are pictured as ultimately the key to a return to the closeness with the deity that is lost here.
And W. Gunther Plaut:
Quote:
The function of these creatures, as stated in 3:24, is to secure the Garden of Eden from intrusion. “The fiery ever-turning sword” is an additional and separate deterrent and not a weapon in the hands of the cherubim.
Why, then, is it so difficult to find images of flaming swords hovering outside Eden on their own volition?
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 06:39 PM   #198
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkfinder
The problem with the Tree of life is that it was burned up by Angels.

Didn't you ever go to Sunday School?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bible
Then the Angel showed me Water-of-Life River, crystal bright. It flowed from the Throne of God and the Lamb, right down the middle of the street. The Tree of Life was planted on each side of the River, producing twelve kinds of fruit, a ripe fruit each month. The leaves of the Tree are for healing the nations. Never again will anything be cursed. ~ Revelations 22

Now, to tie it all to Enki/Eridu, Summeria, WMD's, the war with Iran, and 1959....
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 07:37 PM   #199
Raiders112390
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,745
A question, as Pale Horse and Moedred seem to know a bit about the esoteric and art:

It's off topic but:

Is there anything from the occult that any of the items in these rooms would pertain to, and what art style could this be described as:

\

Raiders112390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 02:07 AM   #200
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
A question, as Pale Horse and Moedred seem to know a bit about the esoteric and art:

It's off topic but:

Is there anything from the occult that any of the items in these rooms would pertain to, and what art style could this be described as:

Snakes, scorpions, skulls and wings. A mish-mash of traditional elements, with an Egyptian bent? The organ is a classic modern gothic image, which looks like it ought to be played by a skull-headed monk, or the Phantom of the Opera himself.

The scorpion-taled woman looks a little like Harryhausen's version of Medusa, or Mignola's Hecate.

As for the style, how about 'digital water colour'?
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:28 AM.