Williams' score

James

Well-known member
I think the familiar themes just kind've overwhelmed everything else. You pretty much have to have Marion's theme, but the ones for the Ark and Grail should've been limited to the cameos of the Ark and Henry Sr.'s photo.

martinland said:
improvise on it in a duet w/ Theremin

Ha...hadn't thought about the possibility of a Theremin having been used, but that would've cool if they'd snuck one in somewhere.

I also liked that variation on the Raiders theme. I thought I heard it earlier in the film as well...
 

Crusade>Raiders

New member
I liked it better than Temple of Doom's score, which doesn't have anything that jumps out at me. This one had Mutt's theme, the Crystal Skull, the Jungle Chase, and I LOVE the Finale music.
 

Grizzlor

Well-known member
I felt like the editing of the film was not done well. Perhaps that was the best that could be done, but scenes were just way too cobbled together and abrupt or too long, and the score suffered as a result. You can't blame it all on Williams, he only creates the music, he doesn't put it into the film.
 
Crusade>Raiders said:
I liked it better than Temple of Doom's score, which doesn't have anything that jumps out at me. This one had Mutt's theme, the Crystal Skull, the Jungle Chase, and I LOVE the Finale music.

Good god...really? Slave Children's Crusade doesn't jump out at you but the Crystal Skull theme does? Blasphemy! ;)
 

agentsands77

New member
Is it the worst? I don't know. I like the mood of the score better than the LAST CRUSADE score, but I have to admit that it doesn't exactly bring as much distinctive material as CRUSADE did.
 
Crusade>Raiders said:
Ehh, maybe because I not the biggest Temple of Doom fan in the world.

Even if you are not a fan of the film you have to admit the Slave Children's Crusade is one of William's finest tonal compositions in his repertoire.
 

eroc

New member
Agent Spalko said:
Even if you are not a fan of the film you have to admit the Slave Children's Crusade is one of William's finest tonal compositions in his repertoire.

Call Of The Crystal baby!


You go Crusade>Raiders!!!
 

IAdventurer01

Well-known member
I like hummable, and as was mentioned earlier, the score for KotCS just isn't terribly hummable. That's not saying it's bad, it's just not William's best work.

I agree with the positive sentiments regarding Parade of the Slave Children. ToD has probably my favorite soundtrack ever - if only it wasn't so darn expensive. :(
 

angry betty

New member
I thought i was the only one who hated the score. i've gotten to really like the movie but the score just persists in annoying me. i thought it actually ruined the quicksand scene with it's 'farcical' and 'silly' tune
 

Darth Vile

New member
Can those of you who think it?s a weak score please explain further?

Personally I think ?Call of the Crystal?, ?The Adventures of Mutt?, ?Irina?s Theme? and ?Ants? are as good as anything on any other Indiana Jones soundtrack. IMHO, whilst the Raiders soundtrack has a couple of the most classic themes (which by default makes the Raiders soundtrack special), I think the score for KOTCS comes second only to Last Crusade, for a soundtrack that could stand up as a piece of classical music in it?s own right?.

Martinland,

I agree about the mix? It?s a disaster! Not once does the music take prominence above the sound effects (specifically ?The Jungle Chase?), which is a mistake IMHO. I?m hoping this will be addressed for the DVD release?
 

Darth Vile

New member
The Temple of Doom score is, I think, one of JW's WEAKEST scores... It offers little beyond 'Nocturnal Activities' and 'Slave Children's Crusade', and relies way too heavily on the 'Raiders March'. Outside of Last Crusade, KOTCS (IMHO) is the only other Indiana Jones score that could be regarded, as a piece of classical music in it's own right. Whether you think that should be the aim of a score for an action/adventure movie is another matter I guess...

What didn't help the score was the overall mix of the movie. Similar to Revenge of the Sith, I found that BB's sound effects mix took prominence over the music (which doesn't work for me).
 

No Ticket

New member
My current impression of the score is... it's pretty weak.

I think I got more out of the film even with it's faults then I did out of the score. A really awesome Russian theme would have been nice... the sci-fi touch should have been more obvious and catchy... there just should've been a stronger thematic touch that wasn't there.

... I really was most disappointed by this I think. I expected even if the movie was awful that the score would be awesome. But it's definitely not anywhere CLOSE to anything in the last IJ movies. There is no denying that. Right now I can remember the playful music of the original trilogy and it was just missing.

That might have helped this movie TONS!!! TONSSSSS! I tell you. READ MY SENTENCES I TYPE!! TONS!! TONS I TELL YA!!!

If there right music had been there the movie would have had a more "magical" feel to it. Just thinking about it I realize how important Williams score was to the original movies or even the Star Wars movies.

I don't even remember Mutt having a theme. I'm sure he did, but in the movie I don't remember what it was so it must not have been too memorable.

Such lost potential Mr. Williams. What were you doing?
 
There's no doubt in my mind that a good score can really make or break a film. I'll admit I probably would have liked the film better if it had been supported by a really good thematic score that would have elevated it above Ed Wood material. I listened to Close Encounters today and was reminded of what the once great Johnny Williams was capable of back in the day and it is the synthesis of score and visuals that enhance the full impact of the film and becomes an integral component of its characterizations. This score is about as flat as a two-month old open bottle of soda.
 

No Ticket

New member
Agent Spalko said:
There's no doubt in my mind that a good score can really make or break a film. I'll admit I probably would have liked the film better if it had been supported by a really good thematic score that would have elevated it above Ed Wood material. I listened to Close Encounters today and was reminded of what the once great Johnny Williams was capable of back in the day and it is the synthesis of score and visuals that enhance the full impact of the film and becomes an integral component of its characterizations. This score is about as flat as a two-month old open bottle of soda.

Watch those clips on IJ.com where it's footage of the new movie but with the old scores and you can just sense how those scenes could've been more magical if they had anything that catchy behind them.

Sadly, I've felt for awhile that Williams isn't capable of such compositions these days. His prequels scores were largely medicore minus one or two themes. Duel of the Fates being the best but that was about a DECADE ago now. So....
 

Silentrascal

New member
It's definitely the worst score of all the Indy films. As much as I like hearing bits and pieces of the score from the previous movies (Ark Theme, Raiders theme, etc...) just filling up the score with those things doesn't not a great original score make. The 'new' elements to the film score were completely forgettable.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
The previous three had years to grow on you. Of course this one seems weak compared to those other scores.

Lets see what you think in a year or two.
 

lynchpin

New member
It's not just a matter of a score growing on you. The actual mechanics of JW's themes are different. They aren't nearly as complex or evocative. Comparing the sound and tone of a score is one thing, but examining the actual way the music is written is enough to signal that something most likely won't be much better than "okay."

It's interesting, even to me, that many fans of the material (the film, the score, etc) are suggesting that time and exposure to the elements will lessen the disdain or critique others feel. I saw the film twice for numerous reasons, and I hated it perhaps less, but what kind of compliment is that? When they hand out Oscars, they don't do it for films released two years ago.

If you have to convince yourself a movie or score is great, does it mean it really is? The original three have been given so long to gestate, say some, that it almost infers the scores weren't "great" to begin with, but rather had to age like fine wine. I'm not sure how I feel about that, other than to perplexedly disagree. Perhaps this is what people are referring to as "suspension of disbelief" -- If you eat dirt and call it chocolate, does it make it taste better?
 

Darth Vile

New member
WTF... Not as complex - you are joking right???

If anything, Williams is building more complex musical narratives, not simplifying them. If Williams can be accused of anything, it's that he makes them TOO complex...

The score for Last Crusade was slated when it first came out because it wasn't packed with the bombastic Raiders March. I personally think the score for LC is the most mature and eloquent of his work to date. The Prequel Trilogy scores and KOTCS are a lot closer to the score of LC than the original Star Wars or Indy scores. For that I thank him.

lynchpin - I don't think I agree with your understanding.

If you think a movie (or piece of music) is either crap or great on first hearing, then repeated exposure will probably do little. However, that doesn't mean that your interpretation of a piece of music or movie can't be heightened by further viewings/listening. What about Van Gogh, who found it difficult to sell his paintings in his own lifetime? Or The Beatles who were turned down by many a label (or those who slated the albums 'Magical Mystery Tour', 'The White Album' or 'Let it Be')? Or great movies such as Blade Runner that flopped at the box office (or The Great Dictator). You are not really that conceited to believe that your first impression is set in stone are you??? Or that your taste exists in a vacuum bereft of context, history or influence???
 
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