Lance Quazar said:I agree. Most of Akator looked really phony and off-the-shelf.
By "subterranean" I simply meant that the characters were underground.
Lance Quazar said:I agree. Most of Akator looked really phony and off-the-shelf.
indyartist said:I didn't think it was truthful when Indy was hanging around watching the flying saucer go up with ALL that debri flying around. That stuff could've easily hit him and should have.
Udvarnoky said:Did I just read this?mr.kotcs said:It's just totally wrong to judge the fakeness of something based on the fact that it wasn't made in the 80s.
StoneTriple said:It sounds a little out there alright, but I think he's brought up something (possibly without even realizing it) that we've discussed here before. Something closer to what really bothers some people about Kingdom - it wasn't made in the 80s.
Kingdom had detractors, some of them very dug-in, before it was even released. It wasn't made in the 80s, so they saw it (and still do) as something that can't possibly be good. In some pretzel logic sort of way, it trampled on sacred ground.
They were\are in denial of what has taken place in the other three films. Kingdom was suddenly judged by a different set of rules, in some alternate film universe. To name just a few;
Nazi monkey who salutes and says uh oh - serious
Prairie dog looking out of a hole - silly
Falling out of a plane in a raft & falling to the ground unharmed - realistic
Going over 3 waterfalls and surviving - unrealistic
Vogel ? realistic portrayal of a Nazi officer
Spalko ? unrealistic caricature
It also turns out the storybook ending they were so in love with happened not to be the end of the story, so they rebelled against it. Some almost violently. There was a fellow around here last year that just about needed an intervention after Kingdom had destroyed his world.
Those types of people are going to go after nearly every part of the film that they can to justify their inability to accept it. Today it's the color, last week it was the CGI, months ago it was the ship, before that it was the score, next week it will be something else, and so on.
The water seems to have leveled off in here - the haters are always the same, the fans are always the same. Just different conversations to keep making our points, to keep showing we?re right.
StoneTriple said:The water seems to have leveled off in here - the haters are always the same, the fans are always the same. Just different conversations to keep making our points, to keep showing we’re right.
That's the point I tried to explain in my "What has the world Come to" thread.AlivePoet said:I was hearing you out until this last bit. If you haven't noticed, they're not always the same. Many more now care less for the film than did before, and this has been a long time coming. You might notice that the general sentiments toward the film are now lacking, while when the film was released it received mostly positive reviews from critics and fans alike. Now the media is trying to ruin it further by claiming that it met medicore reviews at best, wasn't a hit, etc., which is BS, obviously. And increasingly, fans are subtly changing their stance on the film over this period of months, perhaps because they are finally accepting Kingdom for what it is--and what it is isn't all that impressive.
So the waters haven't settled, and won't really settle until some redemption is brought in the form of Indy 5. But then will come a new wave of comparisons.
AlivePoet said:I was hearing you out until this last bit. If you haven't noticed, they're not always the same. Many more now care less for the film than did before, and this has been a long time coming. You might notice that the general sentiments toward the film are now lacking, while when the film was released it received mostly positive reviews from critics and fans alike. Now the media is trying to ruin it further by claiming that it met medicore reviews at best, wasn't a hit, etc., which is BS, obviously. And increasingly, fans are subtly changing their stance on the film over this period of months, perhaps because they are finally accepting Kingdom for what it is--and what it is isn't all that impressive.
So the waters haven't settled, and won't really settle until some redemption is brought in the form of Indy 5. But then will come a new wave of comparisons.
Darth Vile said:If I may be so bold... That's a rather unsubtle dig at the movie, backed up by zero evidence... If you are stating that there is a swing against KOTCS, in fan communities such as this, I'd have to disagree. In fact, I'd say that more people now seem to enjoy it than did before. You only have to look at the recent poll on these boards to show that circa 80% liked it. Of course this isn’t necessarily reflective of quality, but it does reflect general fan attitudes (whether you like that view or not).
What I would say is that the fan communities, wether originally pro or anti KOTCS, seem more willing to accept both its shortfalls and the things it does well. Views are somewhat less black and white than they were 12 months ago.
Darth Vile said:You only have to look at the recent poll on these boards to show that circa 80% liked it. Of course this isn’t necessarily reflective of quality, but it does reflect general fan attitudes (whether you like that view or not).
AlivePoet said:Nah Darth, you misinterpreted me. I actually kinda like the movie. But I've seen the steady progression of those who had a positive-neutral stance on the film when it first released turn to what are now feelings of--not malevolence per se, but--significant disappointment, and distaste. I'm not going to name anyone, but you've probably seen it also. That's not to say it hasn't also gone the other way for fans--it has--but I don't think there are quite as many prominent fans at The Raven who have had this case that voice their opinions quite as often.
I am less than impressed with the media's treatment of the film, especially since they are casting it in such a negative light now compared to when it was first released. And as for fans' perceptions changing, of course it was inevitable to some extent; they saw it then as something sacred, which they had been anticipating more than ever before. I know I was. I wanted it to be the best, and I saw it multiple times because I liked it more then than I do now. But that's because I didn't like it for what it was; I liked it for what I wanted it to be, and did my best to ignore the less attractive elements in the film. Now that it's been out for a while, those problems can be put into perspective and assessed without the aid of a giddy fanboy lens. And it's not all great, but it's far from all bad, I think. Not going to analyze it all now...
And obviously perceptions of the film are not as black and white as they were back when the film first was released; that's partially the point I was making, in stating that the waters haven't settled yet. Opinions are still changing as people watch or don't watch the film and continue to become more fond toward or distant from it.
Udvarnoky said:Yes, it reflects the general fan attitude...of this particular forum's fans...who are still around. If I may be so bold, this forum has progressively become subtly less welcoming to people whose opinion on the movie isn't positive or muted positive.
Udvarnoky said:Yes, it reflects the general fan attitude...of this particular forum's fans...who are still around. If I may be so bold, this forum has progressively become subtly less welcoming to people whose opinion on the movie isn't positive or muted positive.
AlivePoet said:Many more now care less for the film than did before, and this has been a long time coming. You might notice that the general sentiments toward the film are now lacking, while when the film was released it received mostly positive reviews from critics and fans alike.
Udvarnoky said:If I may be so bold, this forum has progressively become subtly less welcoming to people whose opinion on the movie isn't positive or muted positive.
UIMJ said:T
Indy IV was alright. It definitely had some doofy moments, but in many ways it was also what it had to be. I'm a supporter of more Indy films, even if not a pure supporter of KOTCS. However, the movie rekindled a toy line, sold a gazillion movie tickets and DVD's and Blu Rays and other merchandise. It was a success that most people participated in.
Cole said:I don't see how the CGI in the film is anything less than state-of-the-art by today's standards. And logically, do you think ILM would do "lesser" work for one of the biggest films of the decade? For Lucas's own film nonetheless?
Dr Bones said:I personally don't consider ILM have delivered good CGI in KOTCS and some of their other work is of mixed quality.
Dr Bones said:I personally don't consider ILM have delivered good CGI in KOTCS and some of their other work is of mixed quality.
King Kong had some iffy moments such as the dino chase onto the cliff edge...maybe CGI can't do cliff egde scenes yet?