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Old 04-17-2014, 06:50 PM   #476
Túrin Turambar
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they will be playing him in the 30's, you ok?
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:01 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by The Drifter

Perhaps Sallah?
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:03 PM   #478
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Good sallah
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:08 PM   #479
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You know, he would be a good Sallah.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:18 PM   #480
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I just said that
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:30 PM   #481
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Yeah, I know. I was merely echoing your statement.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:32 PM   #482
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Now your gettin nasty...
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:30 AM   #483
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OK already! I think we found our new Sallah. Out of the recent suggestions, I would say Hugh Jackman is a good choice. I don't think he's too old, but he would have to be less macho than what we've seen of him to retain the 'everyman' quality of Indiana Jones.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:57 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Túrin Turambar
they will be playing him in the 30's, you ok?

Or would they?

From the first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millions
Look at all the great Bond films we'd have missed if they'd ended the films when Connery retired.

Bond didn't retread old ground, but continually moved forward in time through changes of actors, allowing him to age only to a certain point before regenerating.

Imagine if Harrison can't/won't do the next one and it's Disney that gets nasty...





Or Disney do go back in time, but since it's a reboot they decide to shake things up...



1930s African-American university professor struggles against contemporary attitudes and finds relaxation by escaping out of faculty windows in search of treasure in remote parts of the globe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
OK already! I think we found our new Sallah. Out of the recent suggestions, I would say Hugh Jackman is a good choice. I don't think he's too old, but he would have to be less macho than what we've seen of him to retain the 'everyman' quality of Indiana Jones.



Jackman's a good all-rounder. A better actor than Harrison himself in that regard.

He's 45 now, and will probably be in his 50's by the time Indy gets rebooted. So good for a continuation rather than an adventure from the 1930s.

And that brings me back to the Bond analogy.

And another Australian.



"This never happened to the other fella."
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:46 AM   #485
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How would Americans feel about an Australian Indy? Does it matter? How Australian does Hugh Jackman seem to Americans or to whomever else for that matter?

An African American Indy would be good, as would an African English Bond. I'm up for an Indy from any racial background (how exotic could we get?), as long as we get an Indy adventure better than CS.
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:48 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
How would Americans feel about an Australian Indy? Does it matter? How Australian does Hugh Jackman seem to Americans or to whomever else for that matter?

That's an interesting question.

I'd ask Stoo if he thought Hugh was a convincing Canadian, but that kind of film isn't Stoo's cup of tea!


When Hugh plays a non-Australian role I'm not conscious of him being an Australian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
An African American Indy would be good, as would an African English Bond. I'm up for an Indy from any racial background (how exotic could we get?), as long as we get an Indy adventure better than CS.

I think you hit the main criteria on the head. A good story and engaging characters come first, or else it'll be a Harrison Ford lookalike running around pretending to be Harrison Ford playing Indiana Jones.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:45 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
That's an interesting question.

I'd ask Stoo if he thought Hugh was a convincing Canadian, but that kind of film isn't Stoo's cup of tea!


When Hugh plays a non-Australian role I'm not conscious of him being an Australian.

I think you hit the main criteria on the head. A good story and engaging characters come first, or else it'll be a Harrison Ford lookalike running around pretending to be Harrison Ford playing Indiana Jones.

Then he could convince as an Indiana Jones by portraying an American Professor who goes adventuring.

"HF lookalike" is want we want to avoid, which comes back to that divisive argument: could someone else own the role like HF did, without trying to be like HF? I think it's very possible. It's a B grade movie genre so it's not asking the impossible.

But coming back to ethnicity, he has to be American, regardless of ethnic background. For instance, he has to sound American. I'm up for being challenged on this. It's just musings of course.

Last edited by Mickiana : 04-18-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:18 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
Then he could convince as an Indiana Jones by portraying an American Professor who goes adventuring.

He has the acting chops to do just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
"HF lookalike" is want we want to avoid, which comes back to that divisive argument: could someone else own the role like HF did, without trying to be like HF? I think it's very possible. It's a B grade movie genre so it's not asking the impossible.

We all grew up with Harrison as the actor portraying the adult Indy on screen. The character himself was born with his likeness as Raiders begins, so any reference back to Harrison or his style of acting will draw comparison.

The new actor would need to re-interpret the role to make it their own, which I think every Bond actor did. That means going back to the original scripts and the 'Big Bang' conference as a starting point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
But coming back to ethnicity, he has to be American, regardless of ethnic background. For instance, he has to sound American. I'm up for being challenged on this. It's just musings of course.

This topic came up in an email conversation recently with an esteemed member of this establishment. The point was raised that Indy wasn't a patriotic flag-waving American.

My response was that Indy is a man doing his own thing. He could be any nationality, and still do what he did without changing the emphasis of the stories. Small details might change based on international trust issues, e.g., whether a non-American would be employed by the US military to find the Ark. But for films such as TOD and TLC he could be any American-based European nationality, even a free-thinking German. Non-white, or even dark-tanned latin might prove awkward in TLC, or the gaining access to the island in ROTLA.

Essentially I see Indy as an educated and enlightened individual pursing his own agenda. His agenda is occasionally at odds with modern sensibilities, but that's part of the time he lives in and reason he was created as a character.

There are stories to tell and Indy could have such a future with a new actor. But I think the production needs to go back to the basics of what worked in ROTLA: rein in the extremes; find the correct level of violence and humour; add engaging characters played by actors who look like they want to be a part of it; and then take us on a journey.
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:43 AM   #489
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I don't disagree with anything you said Montana, but what do you mean by he's an "enlightened" individual? I know you don't mean 'Buddhist Enlightened', but do you mean more as a worldly social scientist?
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:08 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
I don't disagree with anything you said Montana, but what do you mean by he's an "enlightened" individual? I know you don't mean 'Buddhist Enlightened', but do you mean more as a worldly social scientist?

By that I mean that for the period he's living in (1930s especially) he's open-minded. For most of the time he's treating other races and peoples with respect as equals. At that time this wouldn't have been the norm, which is apparent from reading accounts of British and Americans in, say, Africa, India, the Middle East or the Far East.

He crosses social and racial boundaries which for some still today remain as barriers.

That's the modern sensibilities of the character.

Yet we know that Indy has lapses based on his instinctual roguish nature: he doesn't think twice about 'liberating' the fertility idol from the Hovitos; he has to be compelled to help out in TOD. These attributes are the ones that place him back in the period that inspired his stories.

As you wrote he's also enlightened "as a worldly social scientist". He has his archaeological training; languages; history; and even the esoteric knowledge that got him out of the fix with Mola Ram while hanging on the remains of the rope bridge.

He's also enlightened enough not to take anything for granted, regardless of how many strange things he's encountered. Everything is potentially "hocus pocus" until proven otherwise.

These are character traits that any new actor would have to portray, but they could do it in their own manner.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:51 AM   #491
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
1930s African-American university professor struggles against contemporary attitudes and finds relaxation by escaping...

I had a really good response as to why Dr. Jones could never really be black (or gay for that matter), but then I got bored writing it. Too many multiple syllable words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Jackman's a good all-rounder...

And he's been mentioned before. In fact, in browsing over this thread, it's the same handful of actors that get mentioned over and over again. So, let's expand that circle by two...

First up: Jaime Lannister Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

Fans of Game of Thrones know he's been burning up the screen as Jaime Lannister where he manages to be both charming and repellant. He handles a sword well, and is pretty good on a horse. While the bulk of his work has been on the teevee, he has recently appeared on the silver screen with Tom Cruise (Oblivion), Jessica Chastain, and Sam Shepard (Blackthorn). His next movie, Gods of Egypt, with Gerard Butler and Geoffrey Rush may catapult him into household name status.





Second: Michael Fassbender

He's played a Spartan, a psychotic, Carl Jung, a Mutant, and will be soon seen as Macbeth alongside Marion Cotillard. So, like, he's got more than enough range. He likes to get naked too!





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
Perhaps Sallah?

Oh, and no. Your first phone call should be to Omid Djalli and then branch out from there. Bulent Inal would be a good choice too. As a Lion Among Men™, he sports a rad mustache. Alexandar Siddiq would be an interesting choice too.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:49 AM   #492
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I was judging him by his appearance only. I don't even know who he is. He just looked very Sallah-esque in that photo. He might have a helium voice and be unsuitable, unless of course a new Sallah makes a helium voice work?
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:55 AM   #493
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Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has been great on Game of Thrones but for me it seems like he's on the career path to become the next Viggo Mortensen as opposed to next Harrison Ford.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:33 AM   #494
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I agree with Fassbender as being a good choice to play him. Although I have some other ideas of my own on who could play him as well. Maybe Mark Pelligrino, altho maybe he's too old. Or maybe Bradley Cooper although I don't think that will happen.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
I had a really good response as to why Dr. Jones could never really be black (or gay for that matter), but then I got bored writing it. Too many multiple syllable words.

I know the feeling.

In any case if he was black (or openly gay) the character wouldn't really be associated with the 'Indiana Jones' of popular imagination.

Just as Jamie Foxx was never really associated with Django the gunfighter who dragged a machinegun-filled coffin behind him.

It's just an excuse to tell another story by employing a popular name to attach it to.

But then, what is a reboot? A shot for shot retelling with new actors? (As with Mara & Craig's The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, which was essentially a retelling for those too lazy to read subtitles).

Or something radically different that justifies it's own existence?

Or merely new stories with new actors slotting in between Harrison's portrayals? That's what's been done with other characters, such as Tarzan or Sherlock Holmes.

I suspect that if it's the latter, then the actor will be young, providing the role with both growing room for a number of sequels, and a younger target audience with someone more relatable. And there will be plenty of toy merchandizing opportunities to make the whole enterprise worthwhile.

Not the anti-hero we deserve, but the hero that is probably needed.

Or we can imagine ideal actors and an ideal future.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:28 AM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
I was judging him by his appearance only. I don't even know who he is. He just looked very Sallah-esque in that photo. He might have a helium voice and be unsuitable, unless of course a new Sallah makes a helium voice work?

Don’t bristle so much. It’s bad for your complexion. That said, if you want a “new” Sallah let’s dig up the original concept of a skinny five foot one inch Egyptian and call up Peter Dinklage or Danny Woodburn. The larger point: If you want to make a full and complete step away from Dr. Jones’ casual racism, then no white actor should be playing a character named “Sallah Mohammed Faisel el-Kahir.” The people on screen should be reflective of the world Dr. Jones inhabits, and not only as background material.

For example, why wasn’t a single sentence of Spanish spoken throughout the entirety of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Or Quechua? Or anything related to the region they were visiting? We won’t even get into the logistics of how Francisco de Orellana – who died somewhere deep in the Amazon in 1546 and whose body was never recovered – ended up in Southern Peru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
In any case if he was black (or openly gay) the character wouldn't really be associated with the 'Indiana Jones' of popular imagination.

While The West can applaud itself for being at the forefront of race relations and gay rights, it’s still far from being a global norm. You can still be put to death for “homosexual acts” in ten countries, and another ~76 countries* have “Anti-Gay” laws on the books with sentences that combine fines with prison time. A few engage in corporal punishment and forced labor camps. India, the world’s largest democracy, just recently recriminalized homosexuality. So, even in enlightened countries not everything is fine and dandy.

• - Asia in general does not have any laws against homosexuality, but I don’t know that I would want to explore that lifestyle in, say, China.

• - Central Africa has no laws, because they’re still busy finding new and exciting ways to kill each other. Good luck being gay there!

Most of the advancements in gay rights have come over the past twenty to thirty years, and with social and cultural mores being what they were in the Hot & Sticky Parts of the World, an openly gay Indiana Jones would hardly have the kind of access he would normally enjoy. At best he would be denied entry at every port he tried to call on.

The history of the Arab slave trade is well documented, so I feel no need to go through that history lesson or how a black man at the early part of the Twentieth Century would be perceived in those same places mentioned above. So, while Disney could feasibly follow through on either scenario it changes the entire tenor of the series and I doubt that they want to use Indiana Jones as a cipher for what’s now considered to be the cultural norm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I suspect that if it's the latter, then the actor will be young, providing the role with both growing room for a number of sequels, and a younger target audience with someone more relatable

This is the obvious part. How young depends on just how Disney views the character; a point I've been driving at in that other thread, but haven't expounded upon. An actor in his mid-thirties at the time of any eventual filming will offer Disney the best return on their investment. You can skew Dr. Jone's age five years in either direction without problem.

I'm still not sold on the idea of a surge in toy sales. Sales from that last movie were so poor, that Hasbro/Mattel/whoever that they had to cut their losses and opted out of the final wave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Or we can imagine ideal actors and an ideal future.

Despite the popular opinion forwarded by the Fetishists, there isn't anything irreplaceable in Ford's performance. He first breathed life into the character, but Indiana Jones is defined in broadest of terms. Speaking for myself, the actors I've put forward would be able to put their own stamp on those same terms based on a cross section of their work. In short, I wouldn't call them ideal, but very, very interesting nonetheless.

Let's add one more: Dominic Cooper

You know him as Tony Stark's dad, the original cad, but he's also played Ian Fleming and did a bang up job portraying Uday Hussein in The Devil's Double. He just did Need for Speed, and will be starring(?) in the forthcoming Warcraft movie. He also did some vampire slaying with Abraham Lincoln.

There's that pencil mustache that Raiders12345789927173728 has always wanted!





Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFedora
Or maybe Bradley Cooper although I don't think that will happen.

Don't count Bradley Cooper out. If you look at Disney's extended ecosystem, he would slot very nicely into their present direction.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Too much typing!
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:14 AM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
The history of the Arab slave trade is well documented, so I feel no need to go through that history lesson or how a black man at the early part of the Twentieth Century would be perceived in those same places mentioned above. So, while Disney could feasibly follow through on either scenario it changes the entire tenor of the series and I doubt that they want to use Indiana Jones as a cipher for what’s now considered to be the cultural norm.

Excellently put.

This was at the crux of my argument in that old 'Was Indiana Jones racist?' thread.

The "tenor of the series" is that it represents, and grew out of, a particular time in history, i.e. the 1930s. While it bridges a divide between 1930s and modern sentiments, the original trilogy (proudly) bears the scars of its origins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
I'm still not sold on the idea of a surge in toy sales. Sales from that last movie were so poor, that Hasbro/Mattel/whoever that they had to cut their losses and opted out of the final wave.

Which is why I'm forever doubtful on the success/direction of Indy 5+. Indy 4 had Ford, but, to children, he's likely just an old man. Not sustainable as hero action figure fodder. Hence the imposition of Mutt the young pretender.

And therefore the financial need for a young actor to capture the imagination and make some sort of merchandizing success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Despite the popular opinion forwarded by the Fetishists, there isn't anything irreplaceable in Ford's performance. He first breathed life into the character, but Indiana Jones is defined in broadest of terms.

Nothing irreplaceable at all. There are better actors who might give better and more compelling performances. That's the ideal for me, but it must be coupled with the ideals of story and everything else. As I wrote before, the Big Bang conference is a necessary starting point for any re-imagining, or else the character might as well be renamed, thereby dropping all the baggage of the past.


Andrew Lincoln in the forthcoming Temple of Doom remake:

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:15 AM   #498
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I wasn't bristling, honestly. I was very neutral in how I felt about what I expressed. I know about the original concept of Sallah being a short, skinny Arab looking fella. JRD doesn't look Egyptian but somehow he suited the role. His exuberance, perhaps, that commanding deep voice, his mentoring and comical ways. He just really made the role his.

And I liked your suggestion of Fassbender as a future Indy. You can see the suaveness he could portray as the professor in the classroom which would contrast well with a rough and ready adventurer.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:09 PM   #499
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A couple more names to throw out.

Karl Urban: This Kiwi actor has been in everything from Lord of the Rings to Star Trek. He was last seen in the series Almost Human. He's in his early 40's but he's got that arrogant charm that you you'd want from someone playing Indy.



Ben Foster: He first wowed audiences with his performance as the gunslinging baddie in 3:10 To Yuma but he has been acting since he was a teen. He was last seen in Lone Survivor.



Liam McIntyre: Most of his experience has been with TV shows or mini-series. He's most famous for his portrayal of Spartacus in the Starz produced TV series of the same name.

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