Jack Nelligan
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Jack Nelligan said:
On second thought, anybody want a 2 year old
Why I love all four films equally
- Thread starter avidfilmbuff
- Start date
On second thought, anybody want a 2 year old
Cole
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I agree......in today's day and age of sequels, it's one of the few franchises that I like as a whole.
I think that's largely because the same tone and style exists throughout the series - thanks to the returns of the likes of Spielberg, Ford and John Williams.
Each of the four movies generally "feels" like Indiana Jones to me - they are just four different adventures.
I think that's largely because the same tone and style exists throughout the series - thanks to the returns of the likes of Spielberg, Ford and John Williams.
Each of the four movies generally "feels" like Indiana Jones to me - they are just four different adventures.
Morning Bell
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Cole said:
My feelings exactly. I love all four films and I like the fact that each one is different while containing some similar elements that tie them all together.
Meerkat
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I don't hate any of the movies, but I liked Temple of Doom and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull better than the other two because they had more character development. As for Last Crusade and Raiders of the Lost Ark, I think they were more centered around action. (Belloq and Donovan were kind of cardboard cutouts to me.)
avidfilmbuff
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Meerkat said:
I'm afraid I must disagree, to me Last Crusade was far more focused on story and character development than any of the other films. I agree that Raiders was far more focused on action but so was Temple of Doom. In all the other films there Indy was never really any personal reason for Indy to go on his adventures, while in Last Crusade, the Grail is sort of a symbol for mending the broken relationship between Indy and his father, far more deeper than any of the other films.
Meerkat said:
I must agree with avidfilmbuff. Even just on the subject of the villains: I'm a Donovan fan, but the only one of the villains you can really say was much more than a type not only in the performance but on the page is Belloq. Not Donovan, and certainly not either Mola Ram or Spalko.
Darth Vile
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avidfilmbuff said:
Yeah... I think both TLC and KOTCS try and incorporate much more philosophical and emotional elements into the story than the other two (TLC more successfully than KOTCS IMHO). Raiders has a good (some may say perfect) blend of action, story and characterisation? TOD is pretty much an all out action fest with little to no characterisation/emotional involvement.
Jack Nelligan
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Darth Vile said:
Which on is your favorite???
Darth Vile
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Jack Nelligan said:
Like I mentioned in a previous post, my favourite changes from year to year (depending on familiarity/mood etc.). I'll always regard Raiders as the most special/significant Indy movie, but I really enjoy watching TLC (especially for the Connery/Ford dynamic). But as a rule I'd rate them: -
01. Raiders
02. TLC
03. KOTCS
04. TOD
Jack Nelligan
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Darth Vile said:Like I mentioned in a previous post, my favourite changes from year to year (depending on familiarity/mood etc.). I'll always regard Raiders as the most special/significant Indy movie, but I really enjoy watching TLC (especially for the Connery/Ford dynamic). But as a rule I'd rate them: -
01. Raiders
02. TLC
03. KOTCS
04. TOD
In think I agree...aske me tomorrow and I might change my mind! My kids love TOD.
avidfilmbuff
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Darth Vile said:
Once again I must disagree, Raiders didn't really have much a story beyond Indy goes to find the Ark. As for characterisation, I will agree that Belloq was well developed, but I can't really say the same for any of the other characters. I don't these as flaws since the point of Raiders is merely to pay tribute to a Saturday Matinee serial, character development and a deeper story would be sort of pointless. Since Last Crusade is more a 1930's Warner Brothers adventure film, a deeper story is definetly more appropriate.
Darth Vile
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avidfilmbuff said:
Not sure what you are disagreeing with, as I stated that I thought TLC and KOTCS tried to go "deeper" with the emotion/charcterisation than Raiders and TOD did. Is that what you disagree with? Some may say that the strive for more emotional depth in TLC and KOTCS makes them prone to being too schmaltzy, and is at the expense of well constructed action, but I personally wouldn’t subscribe to that (in most cases).
avidfilmbuff
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Darth Vile said:Not sure what you are disagreeing with, as I stated that I thought TLC and KOTCS tried to go "deeper" with the emotion/charcterisation than Raiders and TOD did. Is that what you disagree with? Some may say that the strive for more emotional depth in TLC and KOTCS makes them prone to being too schmaltzy, and is at the expense of well constructed action, but I personally wouldn’t subscribe to that (in most cases).
Oh no, I wasn't speaking about that, I meant I disagree with your statements that Raiders had a good blend of action, story, and characterisation. To me Raiders was mostly an action fest like Temple of Doom, with the most interesting character being Belloq. Sorry if I didn't make my statement clear.
Darth Vile
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avidfilmbuff said:
Aha - I get what you are saying. I guess it depends on which movie-making recipe one prefers e.g. a pinch more action, a dash less romance, fewer sidekicks etc.
Personally speaking, I find the pacing of Raiders to be the most successful (although some now find it a bit slow in places). It obviously has some truly great action/set pieces, but it also manages to incorporate quieter moments that are just as significant to the narrative/pacing as the action e.g. Indy/Marion in the Raven bar, Indy/Belloq in the Cairo bar, Indy/Marion on the ship. Classic scenes I would say.
IMHO, TOD is as removed from Raiders as Return of the Jedi is from Empire. That?s not necessarily a bad thing, as those differences allows TOD to be ?it?s own thing?. But getting back to the recipe analogy, I find Raiders, TLC and KOTCS to be a main course (of varying qualities), and TOD to be an amuse-bouche.
Col. Detritch
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I'm sorry avidfilmbuff but I believe Raiders had plenty of character development. Indy's character was established and laid out in it so that the other films could continue on with the development after. The relationship with Marion was developed and played out (to later be continued in KOTCS). Indy's relationship with Belloq was developed; it just wasn't evident because Belloq dies in the end. Even Temple of Doom had character development, it wasn't as noticed because, being a prequel, it had already become the common ground for Indy's character in Raiders. Plus the character development from Raiders is lost because ToD is set before it. In ToD we are show Indy going from "Fortune and Glory" to 'I understand their power now" which is a huge change. Then in Raiders (even though it was made first) we see this understanding of true fortune when he is willing to give up the ark for Marion whereas in the beginning it was all about the treasure, but not as much as it was in ToD where he would hire himself as a mercenary to gangsters; similar to how Belloq hired himself to the Nazi’s... a shadowy reflection.
On another note, I do agree that the films are woven into a single, beautiful picture. I think of it as my own life, in different stages... of cause I can distinguish which parts I like the best!
.
Benraianajones
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Not posted here for a long time!
Anyway, I had to reply here. Personally I love all 4 movies equally.
All of them are so different yet the same. At the core, its about Indiana Jones having a struggle with some enemy hell bent on using some supernatural item for their favour, but at the end, they die at the "hands" of it. But the items themselves, locations, characters and style of movie vary a lot!
I never saw Crusade is a Raiders reash myself,oddly I never saw it as a light hearted film either. I always thought the whole immorality theme and the final temple scened with the trials, Donovan dying etc were all quite nysterious and dark. Oddly I also never viewed TOD as a dark movie, but I always saw that as the must comical. Image wise, and with the kids enslaved I can see why its dark, but on the whole it doesn't seem it to me.
Raiders and Crusade always have a rather "serious" tone to me and I always imagine browns, and dirt when I think of them. The desert themes probably. When I think od TOD and Crystal Skull, I see them as the more colurful comic book movies. Thats why I like all 4, they all have a different "flavour" and come together to make something interesting.
Anyway, I had to reply here. Personally I love all 4 movies equally.
All of them are so different yet the same. At the core, its about Indiana Jones having a struggle with some enemy hell bent on using some supernatural item for their favour, but at the end, they die at the "hands" of it. But the items themselves, locations, characters and style of movie vary a lot!
I never saw Crusade is a Raiders reash myself,oddly I never saw it as a light hearted film either. I always thought the whole immorality theme and the final temple scened with the trials, Donovan dying etc were all quite nysterious and dark. Oddly I also never viewed TOD as a dark movie, but I always saw that as the must comical. Image wise, and with the kids enslaved I can see why its dark, but on the whole it doesn't seem it to me.
Raiders and Crusade always have a rather "serious" tone to me and I always imagine browns, and dirt when I think of them. The desert themes probably. When I think od TOD and Crystal Skull, I see them as the more colurful comic book movies. Thats why I like all 4, they all have a different "flavour" and come together to make something interesting.
mister64
New member
Benraianajones said:
I agree. I never thought of TLC as lighthearted because of its subject matter, coming to terms with your own mortality, father and son not close but find common ground as they spend time together, etc. I also never thought Brody was portrayed differently than in ROTLA since in ROTLA we see him at his college, where he's used to, but in TLC we see he is not meant to be a field man, but is entertaining to watch nonetheless.