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Old 01-28-2008, 01:40 AM   #26
Matinee Idyll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey
I think that we all need to be a little less sensitive.

You a WASP?
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:27 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by AngieAki
But between most kids at my school it is. Homophobia is rampant and that is a favorite slang term of many. To a kid that isn't sure of their sexuality or is gay that is hurtful-maybe I am the only one who understands this concept. *sigh*

Noooo. My point was, even so, that kid needs to get over it and understand what I pointed out. I have multiple gay friends and none of them have ever stated such a phrase has bothered them at any point... even when they weren't completely sure of their sexuality.

Do you realize kids are cruel in the first place? How many kids get called fat, skinny, nerds, whatever? Kids will have problems accepting who they are no matter what. This dumb phrase is no different. Your also discrediting how smart kids are in the first place, many who hear that phrase most likely know that it's basically the same as saying "lame," merely a slang term.

Is it really homophobic to call your straight friend gay as an insult? There's nothing wrong with being gay... but a straight guy doesn't want to be gay... so it's funny to pester him about something he is doing being gay. How is it HATE for the homosexual person? They need to learn to be comfortable with who they are... if this indirect statement hurts them, then that means they have problems with themselves.

If kids at your school are using it in a different context, i.e. ... directly insulting a homosexual person for being gay, that's different. In that case, that's probably the homophobic kid being uncomfortable with who HE/SHE is.

In other words. This world is a really messed up place and you gotta just learn to not let little things like this bother you.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:10 AM   #28
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No one here really wants to realise that what they are doing is wrong!
I AM GAY... I DO TAKE OFFENCE... MANY PEOPLE I KNOW DO TOO... NONE OF US HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE ANY WORD TO DEMEAN ANOTHER IN ANY SENSE.... WAKE UP !!! YOU CAN TWODDLE ON PLACATING YOURSELVES THAT 'IT'S OK REALLY COS IT'S NOT MEANT IN THIS OR THAT SENSE', WELL THATS NOT HOW IT FEELS TO SOMEONE WHO IS GAY.
Pretending it's ok isn't right, won't make it better, or acceptable. It has to stop now.I'm absolutely incensed by this, how dare any of you think you have the right to make that judgement for others. You don't and NEVER can.
WE will decide for ourselves whats acceptable and only WE. Do I really have to remind you what starts to happen in society when the majority decides whats acceptable or best for minority groups!
Facism, Apartheid, etc etc.....
And remember all of that started with WORDS too and changes in how they were used.
Because thats how you change how peolple think. Then that changes how they behave and things that weren't acceptable become acceptable.
It's all very subtle to start with. But you can go from bad to worse very, very quickly.
Especially like I said when main stream society begins to feel threatened.
The answer is a simple one STOP using these terms.
Let the people concerned decide for themselves.
Give it time and things will improve for EVERYONE.

And the I hear peolpe saying well WE dont want to be told what we can or cant think, say or do. Well you all thought you had the right to tell US for long enough didnt you?Now we just want to be left alone in peace to get on with life......if thats ''ok with you of course!''

Last edited by barranca : 01-28-2008 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
No one here really wants to realise that what they are doing is wrong!
I AM GAY... I DO TAKE OFFENCE... MANY PEOPLE I KNOW DO TOO... NONE OF US HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE ANY WORD TO DEMEAN ANOTHER IN ANY SENSE.... WAKE UP !!! YOU CAN TWODDLE ON PLACATING YOURSELVES THAT 'IT'S OK REALLY COS IT'S NOT MEANT IN THIS OR THAT SENSE', WELL THATS NOT HOW IT FEELS TO SOMEONE WHO IS GAY.
Pretending it's ok isn't right, won't make it better, or acceptable. It has to stop now.I'm absolutely incensed by this, how dare any of you think you have the right to make that judgement for others. You don't and NEVER can.
WE will decide for ourselves whats acceptable and only WE. Do I really have to remind you what starts to happen in society when the majority decides whats acceptable or best for minority groups!
Facism, Apartheid, etc etc.....
And remember all of that started with WORDS too and changes in how they were used.
Because thats how you change how peolple think. Then that changes how they behave and things that weren't acceptable become acceptable.
It's all very subtle to start with. But you can go from bad to worse very, very quickly.
Especially like I said when main stream society begins to feel threatened.
The answer is a simple one STOP using these terms.
Let the people concerned decide for themselves.
Give it time and things will improve for EVERYONE.

And the I hear peolpe saying well WE dont want to be told what we can or cant think, say or do. Well you all thought you had the right to tell US for long enough didnt you?Now we just want to be left alone in peace to get on with life......if thats ''ok with you of course!''


I quote:

"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state."


What you're proposing is fascism.


Allow me to further shed light on this. I have Jewish heritage. Most of my family is Jewish. Jew is just a word though. It's a slang typically used to demean people of the Jewish theology.

Jew.

Just a word. I get called Jew all the time. Just a word.

It does no harm unless you let it do harm.


Then you have a word like "gay" which in the vernacular is not typically meant as offensive. It's a word. Don't use it if you choose not to. But you can't dictate what the rest of the world can and can't say. Fascism. Get it?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:39 AM   #30
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My point is that words change beliefs, then that changes behaviour. It only took Hitler 7 years to go from nobody to begining the holocaust.
If bigotry is to be stopped it HAS to happen by changing how people think too, and that begins with words, if we stop using these terms it gives a new generation the chance to grow up unfettered by past mistakes.

Theres been less Anti-semetism since the war and change has happened, not enough but some none the less.

Isnt it obvious that the very reason 'gay' is now used to mean lame or stupid is due to it being used as a derigatory term for so long!

In the UK we are about to make it illegal and a hate crime to Slander people like this, we already do with Disabillities and ethnic minorities.

It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can stop him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important. Martin luther King Jnr
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:46 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
My point is that words change beliefs, then that changes behaviour. It only took Hitler 7 years to go from nobody to begining the holocaust.
If bigotry is to be stopped it HAS to happen by changing how people think too, and that begins with words, if we stop using these terms it gives a new generation the chance to grow up unfettered by past mistakes.

Theres been less Anti-semetism since the war and change has happened, not enough but some none the less.

Isnt it obvious that the very reason 'gay' is now used to mean lame or stupid is due to it being used as a derigatory term for so long!

In the UK we are about to make it illegal and a hate crime to Slander people like this, we already do with Disabillities and ethnic minorities.

It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can stop him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important. Martin luther King Jnr

But the point is that the connotation the word has taken on is not at all related back to sexuality. It's not at all comparable to Hitler. That's an absurd comparison. Jew only ever had one connotation. Gay has taken on an entirely new meaning devoid of an relation to sexuality. It's a separate entity from what it once was.

I was yelled at once for using an "archaic form" of the word "taint." To discolor, to change in appearance. That's how I meant it. The vernacular has instead changed its meaning. It now means to spoil.

Same thing has happened here. It no longer is even remotely connected to sexuality. At least not in the popular usage of the word. It's now a general put-down for EVERYTHING. Not sexuality.


Words change connotation, sure. But who are you to tell someone they can't use a word just because you find one connotation unacceptable?
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:52 AM   #32
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Ok I take your point but the sense it is used I think relates back to supposed negative qualities that gay people are felt to have by the 'uninformed'.
Well suppose this happened;
'Jew' or 'black' or (well you name it) becomes widely used as a term to describe negative qualities that harken back to steroetypical and wrong connotations relating to the 'original' use and 'owners' of the word.
Can you imagine the outcry?

There are PLENTY of other words out there to use.

And whats more I'll tell you who I am to tell people what words they can use.

I am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.

One more thing, you seem all too easilly to forget your own peoples suffering and how that happened in the first place.
The jewish did not have exclusivity in those camps you know. WE were there too.
I know all too well how words can harm.
In the 1980's in the UK the Government under Thatcher introduced Clause 28, making it illegal to 'promote' Homosexuality in any sense.
They tried to stop it being talked about or mentioned as they thought that would 'turn' people.
I and others marched and protested. My boyfreind was assaulted by three 'men'. His nose split completey across the bridge with blood pouring out, they kicked him so hard he lost the sight in one eye. This was done in front of the police, who did not try to stop it.

This was all due to words, the power, the influence they have.

But if you insist on using words like this WE will insist on fighting it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
Ok I take your point but the sense it is used I think relates back to supposed negative qualities that gay people are felt to have by the 'uninformed'.
Well suppose this happened;
'Jew' or 'black' or (well you name it) becomes widely used as a term to describe negative qualities that harken back to steroetypical and wrong connotations relating to the 'original' use and 'owners' of the word.
Can you imagine the outcry?

There are PLENTY of other words out there to use.

And whats more I'll tell you who I am to tell people what words they can use.

I am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.

One more thing, you seem all too easilly to forget your own peoples suffering and how that happened in the first place.
The jewish did not have exclusivity in those camps you know. WE were there too.
I know all too well how words can harm.
In the 1980's in the UK the Government under Thatcher introduced Clause 28, making it illegal to 'promote' Homosexuality in any sense.
They tried to stop it being talked about or mentioned as they thought that would 'turn' people.
I and others marched and protested. My boyfreind was assaulted by three 'men'. His nose split completey across the bridge with blood pouring out, they kicked him so hard he lost the sight in one eye. This was done in front of the police, who did not try to stop it.

This was all due to words, the power, the influence they have.

But if you insist on using words like this WE will insist on fighting it.


It does't matter the word's lineage! A word is note its history.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:47 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
It does't matter the word's lineage! A word is note its history.
Of course this happens, but when the Main context of the word is still cotentious and in 'ownership', any other derivations of it are highly innapropriate.
There are literally dozens of words out there like this, which I would not dare to use or quote as example as they are far too inflamatory.
50-100yrs down the line; OK; use them, but use them to mean what they mean; once the connection has been lost and forgotten.
But NOT NOW
Not when they still have the power to inflict pain, create tension, and division.
We need to teach that using terms like this in any sense is wrong, that these judgements have to stop if we are to move on.
If anyone truly wishes to help minority groups gain any kind of equality they would do well to remember this;

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. ( Mr King again).

I have no more to say on this matter.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by gear guardian
An' you know me Angie I dont have a problem with gays , lesbians, bi's, retards, ect.


I just want to say real quickly that although this was said in good humor I ment it anyway.

Just so we understand.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
Of course this happens, but when the Main context of the word is still cotentious and in 'ownership', any other derivations of it are highly innapropriate.
There are literally dozens of words out there like this, which I would not dare to use or quote as example as they are far too inflamatory.
50-100yrs down the line; OK; use them, but use them to mean what they mean; once the connection has been lost and forgotten.
But NOT NOW
Not when they still have the power to inflict pain, create tension, and division.
We need to teach that using terms like this in any sense is wrong, that these judgements have to stop if we are to move on.
If anyone truly wishes to help minority groups gain any kind of equality they would do well to remember this;

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. ( Mr King again).

I have no more to say on this matter.


Ownership? A word to express flamboyance and jubilation--that's its ownership. The attachment to homosexuality is only one step in the word's evolution.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
I am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.


I URGE you to find ANYONE who hasn't been picked on in their life. Someone who hasn't felt left out. Someone who hasn't felt depressed. It's impossible. EVERYONE, even those that made you feel awful, was made to feel awful by someone else, whether it be another classmate, a sibling, a parent, a boss, whoever, everyone has felt like you have felt.

The injustices you later describe aren't experienced by everyone, however, those awful cases of bigotry aren't related in any way to the phrase "that's so gay."

Also, as I said before, the phrase is used by TEENAGERS, not by adults in any conversation they might have, and certainly not used to demean those who are homosexual.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:03 PM   #38
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Truly this will be my last words....

JUST KEEP KIDDING YOURSELVES GUYS !!

and by the way niteshade were you there when that happened ?, I don't think so, but I was and I know how it relates. But this is just the point I've been making, if you care to go back and read anything else in this thread.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:05 PM   #39
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[quote=barranca]Ok I take your point but the sense it is used I think relates back to supposed negative qualities that gay people are felt to have by the 'uninformed'.
Well suppose this happened;
'Jew' or 'black' or (well you name it) becomes widely used as a term to describe negative qualities that harken back to steroetypical and wrong connotations relating to the 'original' use and 'owners' of the word.
Can you imagine the outcry?

There are PLENTY of other words out there to use.

And whats more I'll tell you who I am to tell people what words they can use.

I am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.

One more thing, you seem all too easilly to forget your own peoples suffering and how that happened in the first place.
The jewish did not have exclusivity in those camps you know. WE were there too.
I know all too well how words can harm.
In the 1980's in the UK the Government under Thatcher introduced Clause 28, making it illegal to 'promote' Homosexuality in any sense.
They tried to stop it being talked about or mentioned as they thought that would 'turn' people.
I and others marched and protested. My boyfreind was assaulted by three 'men'. His nose split completey across the bridge with blood pouring out, they kicked him so hard he lost the sight in one eye. This was done in front of the police, who did not try to stop it.

This was all due to words, the power, the influence they have.
'''
I am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.'''

Dude im sorry dont think its fair to say everyone is one of those guys who
are like that.

it shouldnt apply to every

YOU were not in the holocaust.people that are like you were in the holocaust.
by the way the mentally ill, gypses and slavs were also killed. the majority was jews though. Even the sick ass kkk killed jews blacks catholics and gays.
and about before i was being sarcasting when i said that if you mean it as stupid not as homomsexual. ive been ridiculed before and have been home crying...but i certainly have no idea what its been like for you ...i want you to know that

i hope you reply to this and im so sorry how people treated you.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:09 PM   #40
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barracca,
when you say :
am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.'''

Dude im sorry dont think its fair to say everyone is one of those guys who
are like that.

it shouldnt apply to every

YOU were not in the holocaust.people that are like you were in the holocaust.
by the way the mentally ill, gypses and slavs were also killed. the majority was jews though. Even the sick ass kkk killed jews blacks catholics and gays.
and about before i was being sarcasting when i said that if you mean it as stupid not as homomsexual. ive been ridiculed before and have been home crying...but i certainly have no idea what its been like for you ...i want you to know that

i hope you reply to this and im so sorry how people treated you.
i hope i make sense. if i dont sorry. if i have this all wrong please tell me.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:10 PM   #41
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barracca,
when you say :
am the one you picked on at school, the one that was beaten, spat on and totured mentally for the best part of 12 years.
I am the one who hid from society and myself because of how you made me feel.
I am the one who at the age of 13 considered taking my own life because of the pain you put me through.'''

Dude im sorry dont think its fair to say everyone is one of those guys who
are like that.

it shouldnt apply to every

YOU were not in the holocaust.people that are like you were in the holocaust.
by the way the mentally ill, gypses and slavs were also killed. the majority was jews though. Even the sick ass kkk killed jews blacks catholics and gays.
and about before i was being sarcasting when i said that if you mean it as stupid not as homomsexual. ive been ridiculed before and have been home crying...but i certainly have no idea what its been like for you ...i want you to know that

i hope you reply to this and im so sorry how people treated you.
i hope i make sense. if i dont sorry. if i have this all wrong please tell me.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:32 PM   #42
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In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends


For someone who hasn't anything more to say, you sure say a lot.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Niteshade007
I URGE you to find ANYONE who hasn't been picked on in their life. Someone who hasn't felt left out. Someone who hasn't felt depressed. It's impossible. EVERYONE, even those that made you feel awful, was made to feel awful by someone else, whether it be another classmate, a sibling, a parent, a boss, whoever, everyone has felt like you have felt.

The injustices you later describe aren't experienced by everyone, however, those awful cases of bigotry aren't related in any way to the phrase "that's so gay."

Also, as I said before, the phrase is used by TEENAGERS, not by adults in any conversation they might have, and certainly not used to demean those who are homosexual.


Absolutely.


You think you know hardship, barranca?

I don't even want to hear it. Having Jewish heritage, being small, being a good student... I was driven to the point of utter self-destruction.

The difference is I can look back and transcend those experiences. I was beaten and battered but I'm strong enough to recognize the overall inconsequence.


Let it go.


It's not worth letting yourself be brought down. They're just words. Words can be ignored. Physical assault on the other hand...


...been there, done that.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:44 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barranca
Truly this will be my last words....

JUST KEEP KIDDING YOURSELVES GUYS !!

and by the way niteshade were you there when that happened ?, I don't think so, but I was and I know how it relates. But this is just the point I've been making, if you care to go back and read anything else in this thread.

You think I've never been picked on in my life? You think that I wake up every day and everything is perfect? You are mistaken. Someone using the term "gay" to demean you IS NOT the same as some kid using the term to describe a movie they didn't like.

Just because I wasn't there when you were getting beaten up doesn't mean that I haven't felt the sting of a cruel classmate. For that matter, however, I also have been the cruel one, as I'm sure you have too. No one is the victim 100% of the time, so stop treating yourself as one.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:01 PM   #46
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Nevermind im just editing a post. ignore this.

Last edited by sunshinestate1992 : 01-28-2008 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #47
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This thread has just degenerated into an argument over who has the biggest emotional scars.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Matinee Idyll
This thread has just degenerated into an argument over who has the biggest emotional scars.


Not that the conversation was much better before...
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Not that the conversation was much better before...

No kidding!

The thread was inane to begin with...Maybe we can get Rambo to tear this threads throat out....Sound good,RA?
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:14 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Not that the conversation was much better before...
Gotta agree there.
Personally, I'm tired of minorities, and I mean all minorities: blacks, Indians, Muslims, homosexuals, bisexuals (didn't say bi's), etc., trying to take over.
Laws are being made every day to bring the white man down. Job quotas, affirmative action, where will it end?
Almost every Presidential Candidate is a minority, on both sides. Yes, this is America, the "melting pot" of different cultures, but that means that we should acculturate, not be a country of thousands of little cultures that hate each other.

I'm sure Chuck Norris would be glad to help to.
And maybe even Harrison Ford...
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