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Old 12-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #76
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
So it dives to preserve secrecy - diving is normally a last resort, what with using extra fuel, and provision of fresh air. I think I remember seeing film now, of the U-Boat travelling just under the surface with Indy clinging to the periscope above water.
Last year, I had a big debate with a now-banned member who refused to believe that the sub dove. Being extremely interested in this deleted scene, perhaps I'll start a thread on it so all evidence/facts can be put forth/discussed and, with your help, put any doubts to rest.

Re: "Greatest Adventures" book. Yeah, only in the UK & Australia that I know of. I picked up mine at Forbidden Planet in London.
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The question is, though, just how far did he travel in the fridge?
That's what I want to know, too! None of the gophers look singed or affected in any way. Were they at a safe distance or merely underground during the blast?
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
In the 'Lost Journal', opposite the page showing the fridge, is a photo of a "'Fake' house designed for A-bomb testing". Its partially derelict, and is unclear whether it's been bombed or not. It''s blackened on the front, but not the side, it's lost its windows and roof and half the brick chimney. Under the photo there is a list of effects caused by an atom bomb, but it doesn't say what size of bomb. Somewhere I have a mountain of facts and figures pertaining to bomb sizes, blast effects and radiation in radius from ground zero.
The possibility of this scene was discussed at great length in the months following "Skull"'s release with posts containing wads of pro & con information. They are buried in here somewhere...One could make a pretty good judgement of the distance between Indy & Ground Zero with the shot showing the bomb tower and Doomtown in the distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
9:39-10:00 sums up nuking the fridge...
Nah...That quote might work for "Star Wars" but not necessarily for Indy. If the fridge scene was done pre-CGI, then 1 or 2 shots of the flying/landing fridge would have been miniature or life-size bluescreen. Effects are required for this stunt and it's only for a few seconds. (The ONLY reason I clicked on this P.o.S. review is because you posted it, Rocket! I wish I hadn't!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
It is indeed genuinely amusing (although I can’t determine whether the guy narrating is special needs or just pretending to be). One could of course do the same thing for ANH, TESB and ROTJ… movies which were far more focused on the "spectacle" of space ships and explosions than some over weight middle aged men like to pretend (including Lucas to some degree).
The guy sounds like he weighs about 400 lbs. and is lying on a couch with about half a kielbasa in his mouth. I can't believe people make stuff like this!
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Nah...That quote might work for "Star Wars" but not necessarily for Indy. If the fridge scene was done pre-CGI, then 1 or 2 shots of the flying/landing fridge would have been miniature or life-size bluescreen. Effects are required for this stunt and it's only for a few seconds. (The ONLY reason I clicked on this P.o.S. review is because you posted it, Rocket! I wish I hadn't!)The guy sounds like he weighs about 400 lbs. and is lying on a couch with about half a kielbasa in his mouth. I can't believe people make stuff like this!

Maybe 6:30 serves as a better summation. But stop just shy of 8 minutes as he starts to get "creative" himself. The 5 minute mark leading into 6:30 is also fitting.

Sorry Stoo if you watch the entire thing you may get into the spirit of it. The voice and other things are definitely his "schtick" for better or for worse.

One of the better points is theres no room for "ifs" anymore. He has full control of every element of the experience and he supposes rightfully so what the movies would have been if he hadn't had to compromise.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:39 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Last year, I had a big debate with a now-banned member who refused to believe that the sub dove.

Well, strictly according to the film there's nothing to say it did, is there?
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:56 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by emtiem
Well, strictly according to the film there's nothing to say it did, is there?

I just looked at the Raiders script, and it's fairly detailed on this point. As Indy is running along the deck of the 'Wurffler' it begins to "submerge". He climbs the ladder to the bridge of the conning tower and the water is rising around him. At the top he braces himself between the 7-foot radio mast and the 20-foot periscope. The radio mast is disappearing under the water, so he hangs on to the top three-feet of the periscope, "...to Indy's slowly dawning delight, the dive stops. No more of the periscope goes under." He then lashes himself to the 'scope with his whip.

Half of him is warmed by the sun, but the whip tightens with the wet, cutting into his skin, he sees shark fins, and he loses consciousness. When the U-Boat stops, the script reads: "Once again, he has survived. To fight again."

I presume this is the correct script. It was revised 3rd August 1979 and is headed up: 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', Screenplay by Lawrence Kasdan, Story by George Lucas.

Last edited by Montana Smith : 12-15-2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:37 PM   #80
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Yes indeed; I know it was intended to (and I wish we'd seen that) but then the finished film and the script are different things! As far as the film goes: no submersion.

Does your script mention the Idol's eyes moving at the beginning? I've always wondered if that was in the script or something added.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:06 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by emtiem
Yes indeed; I know it was intended to (and I wish we'd seen that) but then the finished film and the script are different things! As far as the film goes: no submersion.

I'd look up the thread on German translation. That'd have the relevant info, I'd bet.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:54 AM   #82
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The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".


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Old 12-16-2009, 02:37 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan89
The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".



I'm fighting the urge to cuss you out. There's no need to be such a sarcastic a-hole.

Your entire post is simply a rant of a 12 year old, referencing the sale of green poop and calling Lucas "Foocus"?
Seriously?
Crystal Meth Addict?
Do you even try anymore?!


Jeez.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:20 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan89
The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".

Oh dear… You don't even have the wit or imagination of some of the more ferment and vocal posters here... Which is a shame, because underneath all that inarticulate (and frankly unintelligent) fecal matter you regard as thought, you’ve got just as much reason to dislike it as the next person.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:57 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan89
The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".





On the house, kiddo.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:32 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by DocWhiskey


On the house, kiddo.


tencharacters
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:48 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFan89
The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".



Holy smokes...not since the heyday of ClintonHammond have I read such venom! Bravo! Now, please, go watch the film again, and you'll see that it is nowhere as awful as you make it sound like. Seriously, leave us lovers alone. And if you hate Mr. Lucas sooooooo much, why don't you call him up and let him know? I'm sure he'll wipe his tears with his billion dollar bills. See how much you're toxin-filled opinion changes anything.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:25 PM   #88
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Is it possible to assume (just from what's seen in the film) that the atomic bomb test was to figure out how far away from the blast buildings could be without getting vaporized? So then the doomtown Indy's in is on the outskirts of the bomb's blast radius? Then it might not be so unbelievable that he survived?

I didn't love or hate the scene in KOTCS, but since the fridge did say "lead-lined" I assumed it was possible to survive the blast as long as Indy wasn't in the blast area, just the radiation area.
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:23 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by kongisking
Holy smokes...not since the heyday of ClintonHammond have I read such venom! Bravo! Now, please, go watch the film again, and you'll see that it is nowhere as awful as you make it sound like. Seriously, leave us lovers alone. And if you hate Mr. Lucas sooooooo much, why don't you call him up and let him know? I'm sure he'll wipe his tears with his billion dollar bills. See how much you're toxin-filled opinion changes anything.

See, the irony is that you guys actually seem like you'd get along swimmingly.
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by IndyFan89
The fact that any one human mind would begin to think that even maybe in our pitiful imaginations that someone hiding in a refrigerator could possibly survive even the smallest nuclear blast (if there is such a thing as a "small" nuclear blast) boggles my mind beyond all logic and makes me want to punch a baby while riding a horse a toting Samurai armor.

This is a sad attempt to bring any sort of logic to what is the **** storm we call KOCS, forget about this waste of 35mm film that was probably bought used and remember that uncle Lucas hates our guts but loves our cash.

It would be like you agreeing with me that you need all new glass on your automobile for a really cheap price and after it was over you said "wow! Thats awesome glass."

I wish I knew where everyone that enjoyed crystal skull lived so I could sell them doggy bags of green poop, and say that it is from a Mayan space ship and it is where life came from.

"You people" seem to enjoy being made a fool of, this astounds even me, who owns crystal skull on DVD but looks at it from across the room with much hate a disgust, crystal skull will be the cause of sin in allot of peoples life and cause them to rot in hell for hatred of another person(I.E. Muncle Foocas).

Just now while writing this long rant in hatred I have figured out Uncle Kookus' over all plan for us. We were to be born with epic classic that we would cherish and love forever only to wait until we're old enough to know the difference between film and vomits to try and feed us the vomits and say "Tricker Treat mother nerf herder, I date black women for fun."

Trekkies have more dignity than any moron who thinks Kingdom of the Crystal Meth Addict was good.

This film is the equivalent to pushing a wheelchair bound sweet granny into oncoming traffic and telling her its an enjoyable trip to south Maui. Uncle lucas has officially stole from us, no really, he took our money and offered no goods or services in return, that's thievery and he should be brought to justice, but he wont because he's insane, rich, has a groovy beard, and probably owns half of South Dakota. I hate george lucas I don't even wanna capitalize his name out of disrespect he smells like my feet when they get real wet and your sock sticks to them and you are wearing leather loafers you no that smell right? It's "ode to lucas".



Not really an Indy Fan are we? KOTCS was sanctioned by the same George Lucas who created Indy, and sanctioned all four films. Following your odd logic uncle George sucked you in as well. Good and proper. As a matter of fact, George didn't make any money from feeding me KOTCS - I bought the DVD cheap secondhand.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:56 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by mister64
Is it possible to assume (just from what's seen in the film) that the atomic bomb test was to figure out how far away from the blast buildings could be without getting vaporized? So then the doomtown Indy's in is on the outskirts of the bomb's blast radius? Then it might not be so unbelievable that he survived?

I'd say you could say that; as I mentioned earlier- perhaps they were also testing to see if lead-lined fridges would protect food for survivors?
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:05 PM   #92
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Holy smokes...not since the heyday of ClintonHammond have I read such venom! Bravo! Now, please, go watch the film again, and you'll see that it is nowhere as awful as you make it sound like. Seriously, leave us lovers alone. And if you hate Mr. Lucas sooooooo much, why don't you call him up and let him know? I'm sure he'll wipe his tears with his billion dollar bills. See how much you're toxin-filled opinion changes anything.

Witness the POWER of Raiders of the Lost Ark!

Not Temple, nor Crusade...
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:18 AM   #93
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I was so wanting another Indy movie after 1989 nothing was going to make me dislike anything about KotCS - except for subsequent viewings that enabled me to get distance on it. For Indy5 bring back the grit, much more whip, Indy shooting the bad guys, traps that are actually dangerous, get rid of a lot of the CG and the family excursions and make it darker PLEASE!!!
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:40 AM   #94
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I was so wanting another Indy movie after 1989 nothing was going to make me dislike anything about KotCS - except for subsequent viewings that enabled me to get distance on it. For Indy5 bring back the grit, much more whip, Indy shooting the bad guys, traps that are actually dangerous, get rid of a lot of the CG and the family excursions and make it darker PLEASE!!!

I'm right with you on that, Mickiana. I didn't care for the 'family excursion' as I can't stand the character of Mutt. This is the way Lucas works - he makes his older characters more acceptable to younger viewers, by introducing younger characters (Phantom Menace dealt the whole film with a 9 year old Anakin accompanied by a clowning Jar Jar -as Henry Sr said to Indy in Last Crusade, Indy left when he was just becoming interesting! I'm more interested in the older characters, too).

But since Mutt is presented to us by Lucas, we have to accept him as part of Indy history, along with everything else that appears in KOTCS. But, Mutt can also be hopefully written out for Indy V. Who wants the 'Adventures of Mutt Jones', when the real star is Indy himself?

Even if Indy is older now, he can still be tough. We're living in a more enlightened age now, and older actors are playing more roles once assigned only to younger actors. I'm always reminded of the great John Wayne, who played his best roles later in life, during the 60s and 70s. He was older, but he had experience and mental toughness, and he used his head to beat the bad guys, when he knew he couldn't match them in agility. You said 'bring back the grit', and I agree: 'True Grit'.

Harrison's Indy could easily fit into this role. I don't believe he's ready for his carpet slippers and comfy chair just yet, so can't imagine him stopping at home with Marion and the 'kid'. Indy has a seflish streak, and he's sure to get drawn off on another solo adventure.

We can look on KOTCS as a stepping stone, bridging the gap in years between 1938 (Last Crusade) and 1957, which matches the 19 years that have passed between 1989 and 2008. Lucas has reintroduced the character, shown what the 1950s looks like in Indy's universe, and now we can move on to even better things.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:25 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith

Even if Indy is older now, he can still be tough. We're living in a more enlightened age now, and older actors are playing more roles once assigned only to younger actors. I'm always reminded of the great John Wayne, who played his best roles later in life, during the 60s and 70s. He was older, but he had experience and mental toughness, and he used his head to beat the bad guys, when he knew he couldn't match them in agility. You said 'bring back the grit', and I agree: 'True Grit'.

Harrison's Indy could easily fit into this role. I don't believe he's ready for his carpet slippers and comfy chair just yet, so can't imagine him stopping at home with Marion and the 'kid'. Indy has a seflish streak, and he's sure to get drawn off on another solo adventure.


Yep, but look at who played opposite John Wayne in True Grit i.e. a young 20 something Kim Darby (was it her???). As much as one may not like it, the reality is that Lucas and Spielberg aren't going to alienate a huge movie going demographic by having all the leading actors be in their 50's/60's and 70's... (hence the Mutt character). So if there is going to be a "youngish" lead alongside Ford in another Indy movie, it's logical that it will be a son, daughter, college student etc. rather than a love interest or friend/colleague of Indy. Bottom line, Mutt (or an equivalent ) is pretty much inevitable.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:41 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Yep, but look at who played opposite John Wayne in True Grit i.e. a young 20 something Kim Darby (was it her???). As much as one may not like it, the reality is that Lucas and Spielberg aren't going to alienate a huge movie going demographic by having all the leading actors be in their 50's/60's and 70's... (hence the Mutt character). So if there is going to be a "youngish" lead alongside Ford in another Indy movie, it's logical that it will be a son, daughter, college student etc. rather than a love interest or friend/colleague of Indy. Bottom line, Mutt (or an equivalent ) is pretty much inevitable.

I was referring to the lead 'hero' character, not the other cast members. I was saying that Harrison should take the lead as Indy once again, and not hand over to Mutt and become a virtual sidekick himself, in which case the series would become the 'Adventures of Mutt Jones.' Indy's always had younger cast members/characters around him: Marion, Shorty, Elsa, Mutt.

This thread has exploded in all directions now, pretty soon I'll be looking for a nice sturdy fridge.

Last edited by Montana Smith : 12-17-2009 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:44 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
I was so wanting another Indy movie after 1989 nothing was going to make me dislike anything about KotCS - except for subsequent viewings that enabled me to get distance on it. For Indy5 bring back the grit, much more whip, Indy shooting the bad guys, traps that are actually dangerous, get rid of a lot of the CG and the family excursions and make it darker PLEASE!!!

Was Indiana Jones ever really "dark" and "gritty"? I always viewed the movies as pretty much lightweight/fun escapism (executed exceptionally well). Not that I'm against a serious/dark Indy movie... but chances are, if another is made (with Ford in role), it's going to be more of the same, if not more "silly"... given the willing suspension of disbelief needed to accept Ford as a death defying action hero.

Given the underlying concept/principles of the Indy character, wouldn't it be more logical to go the new Star Trek route (light/funny/rapid pace) than the new Batman route (dark, serious, sombre)???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I was referring to the lead 'hero' character, not the other cast members. I was saying that Harrison should take the lead as Indy once again, and not hand over to Mutt and become a virtual sidekick himself, in which case the series would become the 'Adventures of Mutt Jones.' Indy's always had younger cast members/characters around him: Marion, Shorty, Elsa, Mutt.
Oh I agree 100% that Ford can still play Indy for another 10 years (and Indy is a character who can certainly take being portrayed older). I was just pointing out that it's inevitable that Lucas/Spielberg would have to bring in younger actors to offset Ford's age, and that it's actually in keeping with the previous Indy movies (specifically TOD and TLC), that the leading ladies/sidekicks get significant screen time... be that Marion, Short Round or Henry Jones senior. However, I agree with the view that there were too many protagonists in the last third of KOTCS (and that should be looked at for Indy V).

Last edited by Darth Vile : 12-17-2009 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:21 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Was Indiana Jones ever really "dark" and "gritty"? I always viewed the movies as pretty much lightweight/fun escapism (executed exceptionally well).

That's how I described the films earlier - even the final death scenes in Raiders are comical: explode one, implode one, melt one. I still see two scenes in Temple as being darker than most of the rest of the four films: ripping the heart from an apparently innocent victim, and the flapping human skins.

The dark moment of a nuclear explosion lightened by the comic element of a fridge is more in line with the cartoon-like sequences that feature heavily elsewhere in the series.

Indy is generally about getting down and dirty with the action - and getting grit in his teeth, which is what I took Mickiana to be getting at. Darker in the sense of the violent action (which is normally softened by comic overtones). Some of the scenes in Indy could be described as 'black comedy' - somebody dies, but its also a funny moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Oh I agree 100% that Ford can still play Indy for another 10 years (and Indy is a character who can certainly take being portrayed older). I was just pointing out that it's inevitable that Lucas/Spielberg would have to bring in younger actors to offset Ford's age, and that it's actually in keeping with the previous Indy movies (specifically TOD and TLC), that the leading ladies/sidekicks get significant screen time... be that Marion, Short Round or Henry Jones senior. However, I agree that there is a case for there being too many protagonists in the last third of KOTCS (and that could be reduced easily).

That's why I mentioned John Wayne - a wiley old fox. Indy's always been wiley, but I know Harrison isn't getting any younger, and we associate Indy with full-on action. KOTCS was giving him responsibilities which he has generally been free of. I don't see KOTCS as a departure from the other films, but a natural progression into likely territory, which is probably in fact a realistic element that encroaches into the Indy legend. Up until now Indy was free to do what he wanted - he had escaped his father's overbearing presence; he had escaped marriage; he seemed to be able to escape teaching to chase the artifact when he needed to.

With age comes more responsibility, at work and at home. I like the point where Indy tells Mutt that he shouild do with his life what he wants, until he discovers that he's his son. Then he tells him to finish school (and in doing so becomes more like his own father).

KOTCS is almost a tale of what happens to a super-hero when they reach retirement age. Indy proved that he wasn't ready to give up just yet, and just how much bigger can events get than stick him in the vicinity of an atom bomb, and watch his mind racing to figure out his escape route. Indy's still sharp in the mind, and he's still surviving, even he doesn't have the same agility and stamina as he used to.

Can he do it again for one more film, without giving too much ground to a younger sidekick? I hope so.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
That's how I described the films earlier - even the final death scenes in Raiders are comical: explode one, implode one, melt one. I still see two scenes in Temple as being darker than most of the rest of the four films: ripping the heart from an apparently innocent victim, and the flapping human skins.

The dark moment of a nuclear explosion lightened by the comic element of a fridge is more in line with the cartoon-like sequences that feature heavily elsewhere in the series.

Indy is generally about getting down and dirty with the action - and getting grit in his teeth, which is what I took Mickiana to be getting at. Darker in the sense of the violent action (which is normally softened by comic overtones). Some of the scenes in Indy could be described as 'black comedy' - somebody dies, but its also a funny moment.



That's why I mentioned John Wayne - a wiley old fox. Indy's always been wiley, but I know Harrison isn't getting any younger, and we associate Indy with full-on action. KOTCS was giving him responsibilities which he has generally been free of. I don't see KOTCS as a departure from the other films, but a natural progression into likely territory, which is probably in fact a realistic element that encroaches into the Indy legend. Up until now Indy was free to do what he wanted - he had escaped his father's overbearing presence; he had escaped marriage; he seemed to be able to escape teaching to chase the artifact when he needed to.

With age comes more responsibility, at work and at home. I like the point where Indy tells Mutt that he shouild do with his life what he wants, until he discovers that he's his son. Then he tells him to finish school (and in doing so becomes more like his own father).

KOTCS is almost a tale of what happens to a super-hero when they reach retirement age. Indy proved that he wasn't ready to give up just yet, and just how much bigger can events get than stick him in the vicinity of an atom bomb, and watch his mind racing to figure out his escape route. Indy's still sharp in the mind, and he's still surviving, even he doesn't have the same agility and stamina as he used to.

Can he do it again for one more film, without giving too much ground to a younger sidekick? I hope so.

A most touching post. Good work.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
With age comes more responsibility, at work and at home. I like the point where Indy tells Mutt that he shouild do with his life what he wants, until he discovers that he's his son. Then he tells him to finish school (and in doing so becomes more like his own father).

KOTCS is almost a tale of what happens to a super-hero when they reach retirement age. Indy proved that he wasn't ready to give up just yet, and just how much bigger can events get than stick him in the vicinity of an atom bomb, and watch his mind racing to figure out his escape route. Indy's still sharp in the mind, and he's still surviving, even he doesn't have the same agility and stamina as he used to.

Can he do it again for one more film, without giving too much ground to a younger sidekick? I hope so.

You bring up some good points and I have some similar feelings. KOTCS feels like a natural and rational progression of Indy's life and it finally finds him coming to terms with things that he's been missing/avoiding for so long. If they do Indy V I would like to see these themes continue, although I would still like Indy to be the main focus. The series has always built on Indy's character and forced him to make difficult decisions, not just about himself but for others and bringing Marion and a son into the picture seemed like the next logical step, at least in my view.
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